The_Sens_Loyal_Fan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 How do you guys feels about this?....... This is taken from the Ottawa Citizen on May 21. This is the SECOND or maybe even THIRD series in a row where Senators fans have been accosted in the other team's arena. And it's been the same type of thing each time too: (note that I'm typing this out, not grabbing it from the website, so excuse spelling errors) --------------------------------------- DEVILS FANS 'DISGUSTED' BY OTTAWANS Four Ottawa Senators fans say they won't be heading back to the US anytime sson after they say they were verbally and physically abused at last Saturday's Senators/Devils game in New Jersey. Lee Piazza, Ted Mirsky, Brian Herman and Mike Prior, all 18 and from Ottawa, left here at 6am Saturday to travel to East Rutherford, New Jersey, to take in Game 4 of the NHL's Eastern Conference final. They were decked out in Senators and Canadian national team jerseys. Mr. Mirsky also had a Canadian flag draped over his shoulders. They say they expected some taunting from New Jersey fans, but didn't expect things would degenerate as far as they did. Mr. Piazza said as they got out of Mr. Herman's car, Devils fans yelled at them. But the taunts weren't the things one would expect at a sports event. Instead, they were political and focused on Canada's non-role in the Iraq war. People called them "f***ing communists," told them that "Canada sucks," and told them to go home, Mr. Piazza said. In the stands before the game, a few even booed the Canadian anthem. "We told one young man that he had no right to mock an entire nation and that we were here to see a game, not engage in a foreign policy debate," Mr. Piazza said. During the 1st intermission, a Devils fan grabbed a sign Mr. Piazza had and threatened to knock him out. Other told them to go home. In the washroom, people told Mr. Mirsky that they were going to burn his flag. Others told them that all Canadians are homosexuals. "By now, we were feeling uneasy and we were sticking together," Mr. Piazza said. During the 2nd intermission, things really got ugly. On the smoking patio, the men were surrounded by dozens of people yelling obscenities at them. One tried to butt his cigarette on Mr. Mirsky's flag. Some just kept screaming "SARS." They also say they were called terrorists. "They told us they were disgusted by our presence," Mr. Piazza said. "They called us pussies for not participating in the war on Iraq. All of these people were full-grown men." The situation became so intense, security guards intervened and asked people to leave them alone. Mr. Mirsky said when confronted, the group vainly tried to get their points back across at their accusers. After the game, while leaving their seats, Mr. Prior and Mr. Mirsky were physically attacked by two men. Mr.Mirsky said the men first went after Mr. Prior and he came to his friend's aid. Eventually, all four got involved before security guards pulled the melee apart. Mr. Piazza described the parking lot outside as a "battlefield." "Dozens of people threw food at us, uttered discriminatory insults, shoved us, pointed at us and laughed at us," he said. "It felt like a nightmare. The hate directed toward us was like nothing any of us had experienced before." It got so bad, six police officers eventually escorted them to their car. "I can't even imagine how some minority groups must feel (being) subjected to this kind of discrimination on a daily basis. For me, the 2003 Stanley Cup playoffs have lost their innocence." The group had plans to stay in New York City on Saturday night, but after getting into their car they wanted nothing more to do with the US and made the decision to drive back to Ottawa. Police in East Rutherford said two people were arrested at the game. Continental Airlines Arena security said there are generally a few minor incidents at Devils home games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity_gallops Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I think most will agree that it's disgusting and inexcusable behavior. I have a feeling a similar incident could have happened anywhere in the United States. There are always those idiotic fans that serve as an exception to the rule. But these schmucks don't act on behalf of all Devils fans, clearly. Guess this just proves idiots abound, regardless of location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Devs Fan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Every team and every arena has 'fans' whose behavior, language and actions do not represent 99% of the people associated with the team. Unfortunately, when you dress in the garb of the 'enemy' in an emotional time like the playoffs some of these jerks see it as a magnet for them. Believe me, as a Devils fan we are just as disgusted with these displays as you are and they in no way represent how the majority of Devil fans feel about you. These people also act this way in every aspect of their lives, and their crude treatment of them will be the highlight of their year. Probably been that way since elementary school. As an American who went to school in Canada (McGill) I found that most French Canadiens I met were friendly, good people; some, however, disliked Americans and were vocal with their dislike. When I look back at those times, I remember the good people, not the jerks - and I feel sorry for those jerks and the people they deal with on a daily basis. That being said, I still hope we kick some Sens ass tonight - but only on the ice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sens_Loyal_Fan Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 Actually, I have been to many arenas in the US. I have never had an experience like this. Perhaps its because I am an old lady, but this type of behavior does a disservice to the whole fan base. I really believe most people do not feel this way and would never act like that. I would hope, that as a fan of the game, if you notice something like this going down, you would all step in and put a stop to it. I know I would if it were occurring in my arena. Good natured teasing is always acceptable, but this stuff makes my skin crawl. For an example of what the experience should be like, see the post from the NJ fan who went to Ottawa on the weekend. I am sincerely glad he had a good time there. I know we do try to treat our guests right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 My God, thise guy's even running to the MEDIA on this one.. I can't believe this.. yes you had a BAD experience.. MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE !! I can tell you of incidents I had that were WAY worse then this.. and I was 2 sections over from this in 222.. like I said before on this board and that Sens one.. there was too much liquor involved on BOTH ends of the deal.. yes the Devils fans were jackasses but a situtation like this only escalates WHEN YOU GO BACK AT THEM *groans* way of the world though.. complain and people listen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I have to say, that the Sens fans we ran into in the lot &at the games were pretty much nice, friendly & enjoyed some kidding around. Now the fact that they were middleaged mixed group of male/female might have had something to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nieuwy25 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 And then there was that news report from a couple of months ago about the horrible treatment a kid's hockey team from the States received in Montreal, even away from the ice the whole time they were there. It was really bad, especially considering these were young kids. Just goes to show, there are STUPID people everywhere. And as I've said before, being a fan shouldn't mean being hateful and rude to fans of other teams. Good-natured ribbing is one thing, but being insulting or worse just shouldn't even be part of what it means to be a fan. Bring back the good ol' days when people treated others with courtesy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakoftheDevil(s) Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 How do you guys feels about this?....... With all due respect Loyal Sens fan ( I genuinely dont mean this to come out harsh so please read it as that.),but what exactly did you expect people in this forum to say? What reaction were you hoping to get? Ok, this is what your gonna hear, plain and simple. " its unfortunate, its immature, liquor provokes such things, it takes two to tango.....etc......" Was this just to inform the loyal, die-hard Devil fans in this community of what takes place in our arena? This goes on all the time, in every sport and in every venue all over the world. Whether you are aware of it or not. It just doesnt always make the newspapers, unless someone is killed in a fan crazed soccer stampede in Europe or South America. Were you singling out the fact it happened in NJ?Or the USA? Should we disassociate ourselves with this organization because of such an incident? If the reactions in this forum would have been "Good, You Canadians deserve what you got." What difference would that make, except to perpetuate this villanous image projected onto the USA by many. I just cant help but feel that this post is rooted more in politics then in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastdevfan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Although I would never condone this type of behaviour, every arena will have a jackass or two. Let's not make this a New Jersey fan issue. It happens all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sens_Loyal_Fan Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 How do you guys feels about this?....... With all due respect Loyal Sens fan ( I genuinely dont mean this to come out harsh so please read it as that.),but what exactly did you expect people in this forum to say? What reaction were you hoping to get? I guess I was hoping for an acknowledgement that the behavior should not be tolerated anywhere. I was hoping people of all stripes would stand up and say "I will not permit it in my presence". Perhaps I hope too much. It does not happen "in every sport and in every venue all over the world" . It happens when people stand by and let it happen. The time to put a stop to this behaviour is as it starts. If you see it starting, it is time as an adult member of society to quell it. To remind the perpetrators that this is a sporting event, not a political platform. And that visitors should be afforded the same respect in the arena that you would give them at home. I know I am one of the first in my section to "talk" to fellow SENS or other fans who go over the line. I just do not understand why so many others just sit there an let it get totally out of control. We have the power to make our communities a better place. All it takes is the guts to stand up and say "This is not right". "this behaviour is unacceptable". You would be surprised at how effective those early preemptive comments can be. Whether it be in a small crowd or a big one. I guess I am just an idealist. Peace man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastdevfan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 How do you guys feels about this?....... With all due respect Loyal Sens fan ( I genuinely dont mean this to come out harsh so please read it as that.),but what exactly did you expect people in this forum to say? What reaction were you hoping to get? I guess I was hoping for an acknowledgement that the behavior should not be tolerated anywhere. I was hoping people of all stripes would stand up and say "I will not permit it in my presence". Perhaps I hope too much. It does not happen "in every sport and in every venue all over the world" . It happens when people stand by and let it happen. The time to put a stop to this behaviour is as it starts. If you see it starting, it is time as an adult member of society to quell it. To remind the perpetrators that this is a sporting event, not a political platform. And that visitors should be afforded the same respect in the arena that you would give them at home. I know I am one of the first in my section to "talk" to fellow SENS or other fans who go over the line. I just do not understand why so many others just sit there an let it get totally out of control. We have the power to make our communities a better place. All it takes is the guts to stand up and say "This is not right". "this behaviour is unacceptable". You would be surprised at how effective those early preemptive comments can be. Whether it be in a small crowd or a big one. I guess I am just an idealist. Peace man. I agree 100% with you, but this thread came across as an attack on Devil fans. Try going to Philly and watching a Flyers game with a visting jersey on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Last thing I'm gonna do is jump in the middle of a fight between 4 people that look like they had too many and are throwing punches (amazing how all of this seemed to have left out who threw the first punch on the steps.. this just in he had a Canadian flag on his shoulders)..regardless of which jersey they're wearinf (unless it's someone I know).. I don't need to spend the night in the clink thank you !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevsRock Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 And then there was that news report from a couple of months ago about the horrible treatment a kid's hockey team from the States received in Montreal, even away from the ice the whole time they were there. It was really bad, especially considering these were young kids.Just goes to show, there are STUPID people everywhere. And as I've said before, being a fan shouldn't mean being hateful and rude to fans of other teams. Good-natured ribbing is one thing, but being insulting or worse just shouldn't even be part of what it means to be a fan. Bring back the good ol' days when people treated others with courtesy! I was glad to see you brought this up since we are talking bad behavior. Does it get worse than attacking children? It didn't suprise me to see that your post wasn't responded to tho. This whole topic tho has become kind of political so I will just drop it after this. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-...RTICLE_ID=31846 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakoftheDevil(s) Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 It does not happen "in every sport and in every venue all over the world" Not only are you an idealist, you being naive. Your perspective of what takes place at arenas will be much different compared to that of a young male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 It doesn't happen in every sport in every venue around the world. Where it is more likely to happen is when patrons have consumed a great deal of alcohol.. as in this case, when the game began at 3 in the afternoon.. I am sure there were many people entering the arena half or all the way in the bag already. I don't think the fans on this forum are the kind of people who would do these types of things.. talking about the Senators is one thing, making ignorant comments about Canada is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbdf Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I'm just guessing (since I was not there for this), but somehow I don't believe that those four sen's fans were the innocent little angels the article portrays them as. Again, it's just a guess, (and in no way do I condone idiotic behavior such as that which I've been subjected to in NYC or Philly while wearing devils "colors"), but my guess is that a couple of idiots stepped over the line a bit, the sens guy's responded about as harshly, causing further escalation. I doubt highly that they " vainly tried to get their points back across at their accusers." or calmly "told one young man that he had no right to mock an entire nation and that we were here to see a game, not engage in a foreign policy debate". I'm guessing both sides are guilty of egging the other on and things escalated from there. Of course I could be wrong and these could be four innocent proper peace loving catholic school boys who got special dispensation from the nuns to come down to see a hockey game and had nothing to drink and would never dream of using foul language and were quietly attempting to bridge the culture gap between our two neighboring countries. yeah, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakoftheDevil(s) Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 It doesn't happen in every sport in every venue around the world . Where it is more likely to happen is when patrons have consumed a great deal of alcohol So then Tri, please tell me. Which sports/countries/venues cater primarily to the alcoholically responsible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakoftheDevil(s) Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 OH and the Vatican City bowling team doesnt count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sens_Loyal_Fan Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 And then there was that news report from a couple of months ago about the horrible treatment a kid's hockey team from the States received in Montreal, even away from the ice the whole time they were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamode Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 It's wrong but it does happen all over, let's not limit this to NJ and the US. This is a minute percentage and most Devils fans are decent and respectful people, we are all there to see a game. The only rude opponents' fans I have ever run into were Rag or Phailure fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 All I have to say is. WHY THE CANADIAN FLAG?!?!?!?!? We aren't playing Team Canada, we are playing Ottawa. Bring a fvcking senator flag you tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Sens Loyal Fan is right. This about sticking up for what is right, not politics. I'll be the first to admit that I don't want to confront an angry drunken mob at a hockey game, but kudos to the people that push that fear aside and speak up for human decency. It doesn't happen often. Next time I'll tell an obnoxious fan to zip it! I'll probably get a few cheers, too. Great post, Sens Loyal Fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice dog Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 these kids probably were just as bad as the Devils fans...they probably were not handling taunts very well, and it most likely escalated from there...I'm 30, and I know that when I was 18, I was a lot more volitile than I am now...I'm just glad the kids made it home with out any physical harm coming to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizDevil30 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 If the kids felt threatened they should have walked away and found a security guard, end of story. Retaliation on and off the ice 9 out of 10 times will draw a penalty. ONE MORE WIN! LETS GO DEVILS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I think my children better not have so little to think about, or be so thin skinned and sanctimonious that they can't let moronic meaningless drivel from drunken Neanderthals roll off of their backs Yey gads why do those wimpy nancy boys have to run crying to the local paper about stupid fan abuse? They make themselves look more stupid than the drunks slamming them. That said I hope my kids don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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