Message to Lou: Use the Cap Space

[devilsrule33]

Does anyone think Vanderbeek would have his own internal cap for the Devils this year? I just can't see it with an owner so committed to winning. So if he doesn't...let's start spending.

Right now I like what Lou has done and if he is thinking the way I think he is...well I can understand why he hasn't signed Shanahan. Lou is just sitting back watching teams spend up to the cap leaving some solid, albeit not great, UFAs left on the market. If I am Lou I spend close to the cap giving some of these players one year contracts. Pay a premium for these one year deals. It doesn't matter if the signings don't work out. Right now are lineup looks something like this:

Parise - Zajac - Langs

Rolston - Elias - Bergfors

Pando - Zubrus - Clarkson

PL3 - Pelley - Pikka

That isn't a pretty top 12. The top line is the only sure bet. We know Zubrus isn't the answer as a second line center. We have no idea what to expect from a 37-year-old Rolston. Any third line we have right now isn't going to be very pretty, and same goes for the 4th line. The depth is very weak, and any injury to Zajac, Elias or Parise would cripple the team offensively.

The Devils paid 2.5 million for Bobby Holik last off-season. I think we can all agree that it was probably $1.5 million too much. The Devils got no offense and a whole lot of terrible penalties. And in the end, the contract didn't hurt the Devils one bit. I am sure some agents are telling their guys that a 1-year deal isn't a bad thing on the right team where you could possibly increase your value and have more teams ready to spend some money next summer. We just saw that with Derek Morris and his 1-year $3.3 million contract. His agent is telling him to take the money and enjoy playing a full season with Zdeno Chara on a team with a good defensive system and a strong offense. Watch your points and +/- sky rocket.

So give Robert Lang a 1-year contract worth 3+ million (I know some think this last injury might have ended his career). Pay a little more for Manny Malhotra or Jason Williams. Williams - Zubrus - Clarkson is suddenly an excellent third line. Maybe take a long shot with Mathieu Schneider or Sergei Zubov to improve the PP. Schneider might be 40 but in just 23 games with Montreal, and keep in mind this was a struggling PP at the time, he put up 5 goals and 12 assists. All 5 of those goals were PP goals and 9 of the 12 assists were on the PP. This is a team that needs a strong PP QB. Rolston certainly can't do that.

Lou talked about getting the young guys more minutes. But let's be honest here. This isn't us making room for Tedeby, Cormier and Josefson. We're talking about Rod Pelley, Leblond and Bergfors. And personally, I think the young guys playing more was a bunch of BS when he had to say something after he lost so many free agents. This isn't really an exciting youth movement here. Bergfors certainly has potential, don't get me wrong. But there is no way we our contender with this lineup right now. And again, we certainly shouldn't have done anything different up to this point, but the Devils still need to improve. And any 1-year deal will not do anything to hurt the future of this team. I'm not sure the exact number of cap space we have left, but I certainly think we have room to add at least two guys. I just don't see what the point of leaving so much money on the cap. This is not a great team right now. Signing Murphy and Pikkarainen are cheap moves that are a step in the right direction. But these are moves you'd see from a team that was basically at the cap...not a team that is millions below.

Edited July 29, 2009 by devilsrule33

[maxpower]

cap space is more valueable later. spending it on garbage to spend it is silly. I'm sure if something comes along, Lou will sign it. Put Shanny in your forward lineup, and really, what is the difference from last season?

alot of people on the various forums are high on Zubov, for example, and use the "just throw the money at him" arguement. in that case, problem is, he's eligible for the old fart rule. if you spend the money on him, it's gone, even if he pulls up lame on his first shift and never comes back.

I'm fine with what they have for now. they're set up for March, or potentially earlier, no reason to screw it up now by adding random pieces, really when there's nothing tremendous out there. that Koivu deal would have be nice, but if he doesn't want to come here, what can you do?

and frankly, I'm sure Vanderbeek is cool with it too. spending $5M less helps his bottom line.

Edited July 29, 2009 by maxpower

[DevilinLA]

I agree unless its a cheap PP D booster who probably won't play every game (Zubov, Schneid, and who's cap easy due to age) - what's the point?

How do you expect to ever know if Rod Pelley can ever play ANY kind (even if minimal) role with the team if you don't give him a legit shot (and 2008 wasn't for the record)? at which point go with it or ship him out.

Secondly, the biggest issue with last year's team was they were winded by March/April - not enough young legs. I also believe the proportion of chemistry (hunger-wise) between vets and kids has to be right.

Robert Lang does nothing for that.

[vadvlfan]

We should keep in mind Pikkareinen isn't a shoe in to make the club. Fedor Fedorov signed a one way contract last year & didn't make the team, and went home. The same could happen to Pik. Sutter had a lot to do with who stayed/went, Lemaire won't be any different.

I disagree with spending it just because you have it. All remaining ufa's will be signing for less $$ than they (or their agents')think they're worth. A few will sign for probably half of their "asking" price.

I just wish we had someone on our squad (carrot) to snatch tomas kaberle away from To. He is a reasonable contract (4.5 mil)

[Prucenterrules]

Don't waste the cap space. If we waste it you can kiss Martin goodbye.

[Triumph]

alot of people on the various forums are high on Zubov, for example, and use the "just throw the money at him" arguement. in that case, problem is, he's eligible for the old fart rule. if you spend the money on him, it's gone, even if he pulls up lame on his first shift and never comes back.

this is incorrect. this clause only applies to multi-year contracts.

and frankly, I'm sure Vanderbeek is cool with it too. spending $5M less helps his bottom line.

there's no doubt in my mind that only winning one round last year really killed the devils' bottom line. carolina was like 8 million below the cap last year, they're going to be right around the cap this year. can't help but think 8 playoff home games is partly responsible.

the reason why i don't want 1 year contracts is because i don't think this devils team is going to be very good, one year contracts or not. i'd sign malhotra to a multi-year deal, otherwise i'd try to gamble on a player like andrew ebbett or cal o'reilly or something similar. i really like what anaheim is doing - lou has to get creative like that, find players no one seems to want and put them to good use. murphy and danis are actually two perfect examples and i love both signings, although i wish murphy's had been multi-year.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Triumph

[devilsrule33]

cap space is more valueable later. spending it on garbage to spend it is silly. I'm sure if something comes along, Lou will sign it. Put Shanny in your forward lineup, and really, what is the difference from last season?

alot of people on the various forums are high on Zubov, for example, and use the "just throw the money at him" arguement. in that case, problem is, he's eligible for the old fart rule. if you spend the money on him, it's gone, even if he pulls up lame on his first shift and never comes back.

I'm fine with what they have for now. they're set up for March, or potentially earlier, no reason to screw it up now by adding random pieces, really when there's nothing tremendous out there. that Koivu deal would have be nice, but if he doesn't want to come here, what can you do?

and frankly, I'm sure Vanderbeek is cool with it too. spending $5M less helps his bottom line.

Explain how we need this much cap space later. Do you expect Lou will trade for Ovechkin and Crosby at the deadline. And set up for March? Do you expect the Devils to trade every prospect they have for Ilya Kovalchuk? The Devils don't have much to give to get any player at the deadline. It would be wya more beneficial to sign a guy like Lang, Williams or Schneider than to trade a first round pick and prospects for some offense. Unless you think we need $5+ million in cap space to bring in Grant Marshall or Niclas Havelid.

I agree unless its a cheap PP D booster who probably won't play every game (Zubov, Schneid, and who's cap easy due to age) - what's the point?

How do you expect to ever know if Rod Pelley can ever play ANY kind (even if minimal) role with the team if you don't give him a legit shot (and 2008 wasn't for the record)? at which point go with it or ship him out.

Secondly, the biggest issue with last year's team was they were winded by March/April - not enough young legs. I also believe the proportion of chemistry (hunger-wise) between vets and kids has to be right.

Robert Lang does nothing for that.

I am not hating on Rod Pelley. But we know what we're getting here. And a third line of Pandolfo-Pelley-Clarkson is a major step down. How many goals can Clarkson score with that line? I'd still like Pelley to center the 4th line every day.

Not enough young legs? I think it is fair to say that Madden and Shanahan were two of the team's best players in the playoffs playing heavy minutes. It was Travis Zajac who scored two goals in his last 20 games. It was Zach Parise who slowed down late in the year and had 1 assist in his final 4 playoff games. And remember, Sutter kept the same lineup over and over. I don't think there is anything wrong with resting any of our vets every 5-6 games. And if it is Shanahan...resting him 30-35 games.

Don't waste the cap space. If we waste it you can kiss Martin goodbye.

Did you even bother to read a line from my post?

Edited July 29, 2009 by devilsrule33

[RowdyFan42]

the reason why i don't want 1 year contracts is because i don't think this devils team is going to be very good, one year contracts or not.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind burning up the cap space on one-year deals if that's what it would take to put this team over the top (because for those of you who forgot, the cap's probably going down next year), but it's not going to happen. The Devils are not a legitimate Stanley Cup contender this year and there's no one on the market who can magically change that. Better to save some money, keep that cap space open in case of emergency this year, and we'll be in a good position when other teams are scrambling to shed salary.

[Triumph]

Explain how we need this much cap space later. Do you expect Lou will trade for Ovechkin and Crosby at the deadline. And set up for March? Do you expect the Devils to trade every prospect they have for Ilya Kovalchuk? The Devils don't have much to give to get any player at the deadline. It would be wya more beneficial to sign a guy like Lang, Williams or Schneider than to trade a first round pick and prospects for some offense. Unless you think we need $5+ million in cap space to bring in Grant Marshall or Niclas Havelid.

you bring up two very old players who ended the season with serious injuries and one who plays a position that we don't need help at. i don't want any of these guys. i mean, why not just suggest mike sillinger for the 3rd line? derian hatcher can come out of retirement too. i'm being a jerk, but lang just isn't an option, he sustained an injury that is very difficult to come back from for any player, much less one that is 38 years old. according to wikipedia, achilles injuries can take 12-16 months to recover from, although another site notes that 4-6 months is the usual recovery time from surgery. williams can't play center in the nhl, at least not any better than brian rolston, so why bother, and again schneider is brittle and solves absolutely no problems on the devils' backline, and he creates some when the devils inevitably trade for adrian aucoin, brett clark, adam foote, or ruslan salei, and so on and so forth, there's going to be a ton of defensemen available at the deadline.

I am not hating on Rod Pelley. But we know what we're getting here. And a third line of Pandolfo-Pelley-Clarkson is a major step down. How many goals can Clarkson score with that line? I'd still like Pelley to center the 4th line every day.

the devils aren't finished. there's a lot of minor transactions going on, and i think the devils are going to jump in and make one of those for sure, whether it's a signing or a minor trade.

Not enough young legs? I think it is fair to say that Madden and Shanahan were two of the team's best players in the playoffs playing heavy minutes. It was Travis Zajac who scored two goals in his last 20 games. It was Zach Parise who slowed down late in the year and had 1 assist in his final 4 playoff games. And remember, Sutter kept the same lineup over and over. I don't think there is anything wrong with resting any of our vets every 5-6 games. And if it is Shanahan...resting him 30-35 games.

yeah i don't get this either, the devils weren't a particularly old team, and besides paul martin, none of them were used a lot in game situations.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Triumph

[95Crash]

How much cap space do we have? $5M-plus?

[njdevil26]

Tri, you seem to think the Devils aren't finished. It's the same thought that Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate) has been promising me since July 1. I just don't see any FA out there that help this team. It's better to go with the young guys at this point in Bergfors, Halischuk, Cormier, Corrente, and so on.

[insanity_gallops]

My only wish is that there's someone on that third line with Zubrus and Clarkson other than Pandolfo. Whether it's Pikachu or another NJ player moving over to the left side, or signing/acquiring another decent player for that spot, I'm all for it. I want Pandolfo seeing less than 12 minutes per game. I want him on that fourth line with Pelley.

Edited July 29, 2009 by insanity_gallops

[devilsrule33]

you bring up two very old players who ended the season with serious injuries and one who plays a position that we don't need help at. i don't want any of these guys. i mean, why not just suggest mike sillinger for the 3rd line? derian hatcher can come out of retirement too. i'm being a jerk, but lang just isn't an option, he sustained an injury that is very difficult to come back from for any player, much less one that is 38 years old. according to wikipedia, achilles injuries can take 12-16 months to recover from, although another site notes that 4-6 months is the usual recovery time from surgery. williams can't play center in the nhl, at least not any better than brian rolston, so why bother, and again schneider is brittle and solves absolutely no problems on the devils' backline.

You don't think the team needs a PP QB? And you can sign Williams as a third line player. He'd be a very good third line winger, who can easily step up and be a second line player need be. You don't think we could get Malhotra for a one-year deal?

And NJ26...Cormier? The kid just turned 19 and has barely shown much offense at the junior level. No way he's on the team this year.

[aylbert]

How much cap space do we have? $5M-plus?

$6,679,167 according to capgeek.com

$7,742,000 according to nhlnumbers.com

If I get bored, I'll reconcile the two later.

[njdevil26]

And NJ26...Cormier? The kid just turned 19 and has barely shown much offense at the junior level. No way he's on the team this year.

Not calling for him to be in the starting 12. But for him to be given a shot in the preseason. Just to see what he can do. Have to develop the youngins.

[95Crash]

$6,679,167 according to capgeek.com

$7,742,000 according to nhlnumbers.com

If I get bored, I'll reconcile the two later.

Thanks.

That would seem like a lot of money to hold onto going into the season.

[Triumph]

Tri, you seem to think the Devils aren't finished. It's the same thought that Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate) has been promising me since July 1. I just don't see any FA out there that help this team. It's better to go with the young guys at this point in Bergfors, Halischuk, Cormier, Corrente, and so on.

this is the second time you have namedropped the fact that you talk with Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate). i don't know that that's something to be proud of.

You don't think the team needs a PP QB? And you can sign Williams as a third line player. He'd be a very good third line winger, who can easily step up and be a second line player need be. You don't think we could get Malhotra for a one-year deal?

no. i see the PP as this:

parise-zajac-elias-langenbrunner-martin

bergfors-zubrus-clarkson-rolston-murphy

or some variants of that.

and i don't want anyone taking away ice time from bergfors or clarkson. clarkson got 7 minutes a game in last year's playoffs, and it was a joke. clarkson had a really good year last year, he completely changed from the me-first guy he developed into at the end of the previous season, and i think he can be a 20-20-40 guy at some point in his career. bergfors is ready for the NHL and it's time to see what he's made of.

as for malhotra, i don't see the advantage to him signing a one-year deal. he's young, he has a solid track record, there's no reason for him to sign for one year. someone like dominic moore may have to settle for a one year deal because he has to prove that last year wasn't a fluke, but malhotra is a 25-30 point 3rd line center who wins a lot of faceoffs, and that's what he's going to be next year. a one-year deal for malhotra puts us in the same boat next year, and it's not like next year, some third line center is going to be NHL ready, barring remarkable progress by cormier or josefson.

fwiw, i have the devils with 5.7 million in cap space, that's with leblond, pikkarainen, pelley, murphy, leach, danis, and bergfors all on the roster.

[devilsrule33]

no. i see the PP as this:

parise-zajac-elias-langenbrunner-martin

bergfors-zubrus-clarkson-rolston-murphy

or some variants of that.

and i don't want anyone taking away ice time from bergfors or clarkson. clarkson got 7 minutes a game in last year's playoffs, and it was a joke. clarkson had a really good year last year, he completely changed from the me-first guy he developed into at the end of the previous season, and i think he can be a 20-20-40 guy at some point in his career. bergfors is ready for the NHL and it's time to see what he's made of.

as for malhotra, i don't see the advantage to him signing a one-year deal. he's young, he has a solid track record, there's no reason for him to sign for one year. someone like dominic moore may have to settle for a one year deal because he has to prove that last year wasn't a fluke, but malhotra is a 25-30 point 3rd line center who wins a lot of faceoffs, and that's what he's going to be next year. a one-year deal for malhotra puts us in the same boat next year, and it's not like next year, some third line center is going to be NHL ready, barring remarkable progress by cormier or josefson.

fwiw, i have the devils with 5.7 million in cap space, that's with leblond, pikkarainen, pelley, murphy, leach, danis, and bergfors all on the roster.

Alright, but you're looking at the same middle of the pack PP that we saw last year. And how happy are you with Paul Martin as the PP QB? His PP numbers for a number one QB are pretty awful. Schneider put up better numbers in 20 games with Montreal. Zubov put up identical numbers in half a season in 2008. And I'm talking about these guys strictly in terms of PP production.

As for Clarskon...he must have had an awful first year in 2008 because he left me frustrated as hell last season. I still think he is full of me-first plays. We still saw a wrap-around attempt nightly when a better play was there. He still can't skate and seems to fall around on almost every shift. Now I am not trying to hate here. I like what he brought to the table, and he certainly deserves more than the 8 and a half minutes he got in the playoffs, but what do you want to him get? Second line minutes? I am pretty sure he is penciled in on that third line all year. But who else will be there is a big question mark. And it certainly should not be Pandolfo.

Edited July 29, 2009 by devilsrule33

[95Crash]

as for malhotra, i don't see the advantage to him signing a one-year deal. he's young, he has a solid track record, there's no reason for him to sign for one year. someone like dominic moore may have to settle for a one year deal because he has to prove that last year wasn't a fluke, but malhotra is a 25-30 point 3rd line center who wins a lot of faceoffs, and that's what he's going to be next year. a one-year deal for malhotra puts us in the same boat next year, and it's not like next year, some third line center is going to be NHL ready, barring remarkable progress by cormier or josefson.

fwiw, i have the devils with 5.7 million in cap space, that's with leblond, pikkarainen, pelley, murphy, leach, danis, and bergfors all on the roster.

I too wouldn't mind seeing Malhotra on the third line. What's his price range?

[njdevil26]

this is the second time you have namedropped the fact that you talk with Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate). i don't know that that's something to be proud of.

Haha not trying to name drop. The guy does actually have legit sources... so I'm just stating that you share the same opinion as him. Like I said, he's convinced that the Devils are signing Skoula and Shanahan.

I, on the other hand, and convinced that the Devils will not make any more moves... maybe Shanny, but that's it.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Personaly i think Lou will use the cap space.

Granted it will only be for a player who fits the bill, he wont spend it for the sake of spending it, when has that ever been Lou's style.

The Market and most teams are hardly set for next season, there are probably going to be a wave of buyouts such as Prospal's as it gets closer to the point where teams need to be under the cap (:cough:BOSTON:cough), thats when i think Lou will make his moves.

TG said in a blog recently he definatley expected Lou to act on the issue of not haveing a 2nd line center, but didnt expect it to be resolved before training camp posibly even the start of the season.

The patient approach hasn't served Lou well at times in the past with Free agency and setting up the team (nied's) but this year with such a poor UFA group and the posibillity of the cap going down it makes perfect sense to wait it out. Every year now there are going to be players who are the victim of the cap and will be looking for a new home after buyouts, giving you another oppertunity to look at the market.

Also the longer players like Moore and Malhotra remain unsigned the less bargining power they have and the cheaper they become.

[Triumph]

Alright, but you're looking at the same middle of the pack PP that we saw last year. And how happy are you with Paul Martin as the PP QB? His PP numbers for a number one QB are pretty awful. Schneider put up better numbers in 20 games with Montreal. Zubov put up identical numbers in half a season in 2008. And I'm talking about these guys strictly in terms of PP production.

and both schneider and zubov are terribly injury-prone and who knows what they have left in the tank. i'm fine with a middle of the pack power play. i don't want guys that are just playing out the string. like larionov in 2004 - i knew lou was going to have to go out and get someone at the deadline to replace him the moment he signed, so why bother with him in the first place? if martin's no good, and you're right that he isn't particularly, put murphy and rolston on the first unit and move langenbrunner down. or put elias on the 2nd unit and use PZL with murphy and rolston at the points, oduya and martin at the points of the 2nd PP. there's options.

As for Clarskon...he must have had an awful first year in 2008 because he left me frustrated as hell last season. I still think he is full of me-first plays. We still saw a wrap-around attempt nightly when a better play was there. He still can't skate and seems to fall around on almost every shift. Now I am not trying to hate here. I like what he brought to the table, and he certainly deserves more than the 8 and a half minutes he got in the playoffs, but what do you want to him get? Second line minutes? I am pretty sure he is penciled in on that third line all year. But who else will be there is a big question mark. And it certainly should not be Pandolfo.

the wrap-around is probably the best play a lot of the time when your linemates are rupp, holik, madden, and pandolfo. his falling down is exaggerated. he scored 17 goals with 12 minutes of ice time with mostly average to poor linemates. now his career shooting percentage is probably going to be closer to 8.9 than it was last season, but i could definitely see him on a second line to provide toughness and forechecking ability.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Triumph

[devilsrule33]

I would completely disagree that his falling down is exaggerated.

And as for Larionov..let's keep in mind a couple of things. He was 43 that season. We're not taking anyone on who is 43 here. That was his 27th season playing pro hockey. He was coming from a team where he was surrounded by incredible talent to a team where he was playing with very little talent up front. He was never going to score here, but he never had anyone to the pass puck to. The Devils had two forwards with over 40 points that season. I mean that is expansion team bad. I just don't think he is a fair example here.

[njdevil26]

Clarkson doesn't dive. His falling down is due to the fact that he works very VERY hard on each shift. He tries to play through people and his feet move too fast for his body sometimes. I like his work ethic and have rarely found myself P.O'd at him for botching a play.

[Triumph]

And as for Larionov..let's keep in mind a couple of things. He was 43 that season. We're not taking anyone on who is 43 here. That was his 27th season playing pro hockey. He was coming from a team where he was surrounded by incredible talent to a team where he was playing with very little talent up front. He was never going to score here, but he never had anyone to the pass puck to. The Devils had two forwards with over 40 points that season. I mean that is expansion team bad. I just don't think he is a fair example here.

totally apt comparison.

1: while larionov was 43, it appears that he never had a major injury in his career. he rarely played a full slate of games, but he's like paul martin - he's a small guy, and those were probably bumps and bruises. meanwhile both schneider and zubov are coming off major injuries, zubov coming off two major injuries - their bodies are probably just as 'old'.

2: just as it was certainly larionov's last season, it's almost certain to be schneider and zubov's last season.

3: both players are very high risks to suffer a career-ending injury.

4: larionov was terrible and would have to be replaced at the trading deadline. he was a placeholder. he had already left detroit once and was terrible in florida - there was precedent for him switching teams and becoming useless.

5: the devils had an above league-average offense in 2003-04 - part of the reason the devils offense suffered so much was because larionov was so ineffective - with nieuwendyk in that spot, the team's secondary offense was much better. whether he had 11 points or 20 points, it's almost impossible for me to believe that he was any better than waiver-wire talent at that point.

if the devils need help during the season and one of these guys is available, fine. otherwise, i don't see the upside to signing players who are on their last legs and might be awful. we did it with holik and shanahan last year. shanahan worked out okay, and holik was basically a disaster.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Triumph