Is Larsson Finished?

[Mike Brown]

Oh, ok

 

My point is that he's far too young with too high of a ceiling to not have any value.

[NJDevs4978]

It depends on what you think 'value' is.  There's no way he's getting a 1 back or a top prospect right now.

[nessus]

I'm probably one of the more pro-Larsson people around here, so I definitely hope he sticks around. The problem I've noticed, though, is that we aren't seeing those "flashes of excellence" that we saw during his rookie season. The things like that impressive Elias goal that he set up (when Patty passed by Sykora going for the celebration) or his first playoff goal aren't really happening anymore, and I'm tempted to say that it's likely because of a lack of confidence at this point. Does anyone else remember what the coaches (I think it was Kowalsky) were saying about Larsson during his time in the AHL last season? They made it seem like he was dominant every game, and while I know that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a star NHLer, you'd think that a bit more of that would translate to the NHL level. The dude must be getting frustrated though. He feels like he's paid his dues already, and I feel for him.

 

I think we would see that he's an effective defenseman if he got more than a game or two at a time this season, but we'll probably have to wait for an injury for that. In addition to Greene, Severson, Zidlicky, and Salvador, Gelinas is likely staying in the lineup for his offensive production and PP minutes, both of which are not big parts of Larsson's game, but are major needs of the Devils right now. So if that last spot is a decision between Larsson or Merrill, Merrill gets the call because he's quicker and simply better defensively right now. I would probably prefer him in the lineup over Gelinas most nights, but I can't blame Pete for scratching him. There really doesn't seem to be a spot for the guy now. Maybe something will open up next year if Salvador leaves, but knowing Lou, he'll need a replacement.

 

Anyway, if a guy like Yak or Baertschi is coming back for Larsson, I don't know if I'd be complaining.

[thefiestygoat]

I agree nessus, it seems to me his lack of confidence is holding him back right now. You mentioned Kowalsky so I figured I'd search for some quotes and this article from NJ.com (2/17/14) had some interesting ones.

 

"I think Adam's his own worst enemy sometimes," Albany coach Rick Kowalsky said.

"There's obviously a ton of talent there. We've seen some signs of that. When he lets his instincts take over, I think that's when he's at his best."
---
“Larse can be pretty tough on himself,” Tedenby said.

“They need to give him a shot. You know? When he gets that shot, he’s going to be very good. He’s a great skater. He’s got the whole package. He’s just waiting for the chance.”
---
“The next step of his development, no question, is going to be some time in the NHL where he’s going to have to continue to grow," the A-Devils coach said. “I think young defensemen in particular, we can only get them so far down here, then they’re going to have to play at the NHL level.
---
"Adam's a pretty quiet guy, but very intense in his own way," Pelley said. "But he plays the game on his own intensity level. He doesn't say much, but he's bringing it every night. I'm sure if you asked him, he's his own worst critic."
---
Tedenby says Larsson’s shyness is a trait many people from "up north" in Sweden possess.

 

I trimmed a lot out, but the article provides some insight into him, especially his shy personality on and off the ice which I almost wonder if it rubs DeBoer the wrong way, as a perceived lack of intensity. I really think if he could just get a consistent run of games without having to worry about every little error landing him in the press box he could take that next step. When I watch Severson play the biggest thing that stands out to me is how confident he is and how much he doesn't worry about mistakes like turnovers. It seems Larsson gets so paranoid he over thinks things, knowing he's on a short leash, and it ends up hurting his game.

[StarDew]

The kid is playing like he is walking on egg shells.  So afraid of making a mistake that he does err.  PDB has not given him any encouragement imo.  How can a player develop if he is so afraid that the tiniest error and he will be benched?  Someone has to help him get out of that mindset.  He needs to focus, have fun and stay classy.  The hell with PDB.  He has Adam shell shocked.

[BostonNala370]

The kid is playing like he is walking on egg shells.  So afraid of making a mistake that he does err.  PDB has not given him any encouragement imo.  How can a player develop if he is so afraid that the tiniest error and he will be benched?  Someone has to help him get out of that mindset.  He needs to focus, have fun and stay classy.  The hell with PDB.  He has Adam shell shocked.

You hit the nail on the head, who is that person to help him get out of that mindset? His first year it was Larry Robinson.

[NJDevs4978]

Honestly I'm starting to lose patience with him too now that we're seeing kid after kid skyrocket past him.  At some point the excuses have to stop, I mean look at him next to Severson or Gelinas offensively, Larsson has ZERO offensive talent compared to them.  He has to be Merrill like smart defensively to have an impact but he gets caught flatfooted too much for that.

 

He's obviously been mismanaged all throughout his time here but the way he's handled his benching compared to Josefson/Brunner this season also sticks out.  Josefson and Brunner patiently waited it out and made an impact when they got in the lineup with limited time, Larsson really didn't in his game.

Edited October 26, 2014 by NJDevs4978

[Devils Pride 26]

He absolutely has value. "What have you done for me lately?" doesn't apply to a guy like Larsson.

What have you done for me lately? Larsson hasn't done anything at any time other than get drafted. He has little value

[Mike Brown]

What have you done for me lately? Larsson hasn't done anything at any time other than get drafted. He has little value

 

If Larsson gets traded, you'll be surprised at the return we get.

[coldply123]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd give him another entire season, and hopefully some ice time due to injury or something, but he's still 21, give him until he's like 23 before we throw it away (unless there's a really nice return).

 

He's not going to give the Devils another season.  You people keep missing this,  Why is he going to stick around for next season?  He's not.  Its very simple.  Either he gets traded or he's going back to Sweden.  He's not willing to play for this coach after this nonsense two years in a row.  So unless something radical happens with Deboer getting fired, its looking like its over for him here.

[Devils Pride 26]

If Larsson gets traded, you'll be surprised at the return we get.

No he's not. Besides the fact that he isn't very good at hockey, why would anyone trade for a guy with one year on his deal?

Your factually based arguments are great though, please keep them coming

[NJDevs4978]

If Larsson could still get that return he'd be gone already.  What's the point of keeping a malcontent around if you could get real value back when the staff clearly trusts the six in the lineup plus Harrold over him?

Edited October 26, 2014 by NJDevs4978

[nessus]

Thanks for the quote, feisty. It's interesting that Tedenby mentions skating as one of his strengths. I don't remember reading so many quotes that were so positive about a defenseman in the system in a while, so at least that's encouraging. Hopefully he gets a good share of games this season.

 

Also, am I the only one who thought Larsson was pretty good in his game? It was his first of the season, and other than a couple of turnovers, I thought he played well.

What have you done for me lately? Larsson hasn't done anything at any time other than get drafted. He has little value

I have to agree with Mike Brown here. Top 5 draft picks hold a bit more value than later picks, even if they haven't had success in the NHL. Guys like Brett Connolly who have been good in junior and the AHL, and were drafted early, still seem to have a good reputation around the league. Larsson has probably proved more than Connolly, anyway. Think about when the Devils acquired Olesz and Bernier. It had been many years since either was drafted, but the fact that they were both first rounders was mentioned. Like it or not, it seems to be something that GMs consider when trading.

[Devils Pride 26]

Those guys were acquired on league minimum 2 way contracts. If you want to consider that value, be my guest but I certainly don't.

The problem with Larsson is that he hasn't gotten better, if anything, probably worse. Our biggest fear has come true, his ceiling is Sami Salo as NHL network suggested and we went ballistic over. Merrill and Severson are significantly better, and Gelinas has shown a top end game that Larsson can't touch. Santini might even make the jump next year and I wouldn't be surprised if he was better.

I've defended him for a long time, but it's sink or swim time and he's drowning

[Devils731]

Having him play a year overseas may be the best thing for his trade value. I'd still just hold onto Larsson unless there's a deal you can't pass up.

[vadvlfan]

The kid is playing like he is walking on egg shells.  So afraid of making a mistake that he does err.  PDB has not given him any encouragement imo.  How can a player develop if he is so afraid that the tiniest error and he will be benched?  Someone has to help him get out of that mindset.  He needs to focus, have fun and stay classy.  The hell with PDB.  He has Adam shell shocked.

well said Dew. My sentiments exactly. If any player is brought up from Albany to play over Lars, he'll at least ask for a trade. I wouldn't blame him. it'll at least accelerate the process.  Lars agent will be working the phones. And going to Swedish Elite league would be way better alternative to this.

[mfitz804]

Keep in mind, Salvador is gone after this season. There will be an opening on defense where there wasn't before.

If offered a nice contract and a promise of a slot, he may come back. After all, he did take a 1 year sub-$1m deal to come back this year after what happened last year.

Finally, I expect PDB may not make it through the season. Even if they are close to a playoff spot, I can see Lou doing that thing where he tries to light a fire by making a coaching change. That may just be wishful thinking.

[vadvlfan]

I know Larry R. is weaning himself off coaching in San Jose, but he might just be lobbying Doug Wilson to try to pick up Lars?

[SterioDesign]

I agree nessus, it seems to me his lack of confidence is holding him back right now. You mentioned Kowalsky so I figured I'd search for some quotes and this article from NJ.com (2/17/14) had some interesting ones.

 

I trimmed a lot out, but the article provides some insight into him, especially his shy personality on and off the ice which I almost wonder if it rubs DeBoer the wrong way, as a perceived lack of intensity. I really think if he could just get a consistent run of games without having to worry about every little error landing him in the press box he could take that next step. When I watch Severson play the biggest thing that stands out to me is how confident he is and how much he doesn't worry about mistakes like turnovers. It seems Larsson gets so paranoid he over thinks things, knowing he's on a short leash, and it ends up hurting his game.

 

Thats precisely it and why im hard on Deboer about that. It's QUITE OBVIOUS that Larsson's personality needs some trust and adjustments from Deboer for him to success and it would be worth it. There's all kinds of personalities in life and sports and you can't use the same approach with everyone.

 

I promised myself not to bring up this subject again but, what we see in NJ is our GM and our coaches pretty much saying to the players "THIS is the way we do things, if you don't do things our way it's not gonna fly, its make or break. Lou and Deboer simply don't want to adjust their way even though the outcome suffers from it. Incredibly stubborn. 

 

It's OBVIOUS Larsson is stressed as fvck to make mistakes cause he knows he'll pay for it hard. I coached a lot and i knew i had to adjust my way of dealing with some players cause it would have drag them down. Obviously Deboer is a NHL so he should know that.

Edited October 26, 2014 by SterioDesign

[coldply123]

Keep in mind, Salvador is gone after this season. There will be an opening on defense where there wasn't before.

If offered a nice contract and a promise of a slot, he may come back. After all, he did take a 1 year sub-$1m deal to come back this year after what happened last year.

Finally, I expect PDB may not make it through the season. Even if they are close to a playoff spot, I can see Lou doing that thing where he tries to light a fire by making a coaching change. That may just be wishful thinking.

Larsson isn't going to stick around. He wants out.

[Mike Brown]

No he's not. Besides the fact that he isn't very good at hockey, why would anyone trade for a guy with one year on his deal?

Your factually based arguments are great though, please keep them coming

 

It's not about how good he is right now.  It's how good GM's think he will be.  Of course nobody will overpay for Larsson.  Larsson wouldn't return a proven star player on his own, but he will return a nice package around a top prospect from another team.  Plus Lou can always package him in with a proven vet like Ryder for a good player as well.  And bringing up the fact he's on a one year deal is flawed because he's still an RFA at the end of this year.

 

Teams do trade for unproven players with high potential all the time.  Larsson fits in that category.  "What have you done for me lately?" does NOT apply for a player like Larsson.

 

Kyle Turris

Brayden Schenn

Luke Schenn

James van Riemsdyk

Erik Johnson

Nino Niederreiter

 

All of those guys were traded before they were proven out.  And the teams they were traded to were trading for their potential, and not what they were at their current states.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mike Brown

[capo]

Whether he likes or not Adam Larsson is under NJD control until he's 27.  It doesn't matter if he has a contract for next year or not.  The Devils can let him rot where he is if they so desire.  Larsson hasn't played with confidence since he joined the league.  

[coldply123]

Whether he likes or not Adam Larsson is under NJD control until he's 27. It doesn't matter if he has a contract for next year or not. The Devils can let him rot where he is if they so desire. Larsson hasn't played with confidence since he joined the league.

Do you think he cares at this point about his RFA status. Then we lose any hope of asset development of a return on asset.

He won't stick around next year if the current situation doesn't change somehow. He's not going to wait for some pretend opportunity if Salvador and Zidlicky aren't here. It's obvious Deboer doesn't believe in him.

He will go back to Sweden if he feels he'll be happier there. Money be damned.

[nessus]

Those guys were acquired on league minimum 2 way contracts. If you want to consider that value, be my guest but I certainly don't.

The problem with Larsson is that he hasn't gotten better, if anything, probably worse. Our biggest fear has come true, his ceiling is Sami Salo as NHL network suggested and we went ballistic over. Merrill and Severson are significantly better, and Gelinas has shown a top end game that Larsson can't touch. Santini might even make the jump next year and I wouldn't be surprised if he was better.

I've defended him for a long time, but it's sink or swim time and he's drowning

The point is that there are players that probably shouldn't be relevant that are because of their history of being drafted in the first round. Olesz was signed for $1 million on a one-way contract, btw. As MB said, if teams are willing to trade for guys like Nino Niederreiter, there's no reason to say they wouldn't be interested in Larsson. It's almost the exact same situation.

 

I'm not gonna disagree with what you said about Merrill and Gelinas being better right now, but we shouldn't exactly say his ceiling is Sami Salo, since he's only 21.

[Daniel]

The point is that there are players that probably shouldn't be relevant that are because of their history of being drafted in the first round. Olesz was signed for $1 million on a one-way contract, btw. As MB said, if teams are willing to trade for guys like Nino Niederreiter, there's no reason to say they wouldn't be interested in Larsson. It's almost the exact same situation.

I'm not gonna disagree with what you said about Merrill and Gelinas being better right now, but we shouldn't exactly say his ceiling is Sami Salo, since he's only 21.

Niedereitter was traded for basically a song.

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