Daniel Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Regarding Wells not asking to take possession of Brady's phone, Wells is a litigator by trade, and the way discovery in litigation almost always works is that it's up to the producing party (in this case Brady) to provide everything that the requesting party (here, Wells) requests. Very rarely do you get to do a search of someone's computer or phones. So there wouldn't be anything that unusual about Wells telling Brady's lawyer to produce relevant texts. But you can get into big, big trouble in litigation if you don't provide documents that you're asked to produce, unless you have a decent excuse, which I don't know if Brady has or doesn't have. A case of the coverup being worse than the crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 You're proving my point Has. Is this how he want's his legacy to go down? Is this where he wants his name to be alongside? Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, and A-Rod?? ..all he had to do was come out and say: "look, I did it. I fvcked up.. I didn't know what I was doing was wrong. I'm sorry" --and he'd be Giambi. Now he's A-Rod. Is that REALLY what he wants?? I didn't say it was the smartest thing for him to do, just saying I'm not surprised he's going scorched earth especially since everyone around him from Kraft to the attorney to his dad is also going scorched earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Regarding Wells not asking to take possession of Brady's phone, Wells is a litigator by trade, and the way discovery in litigation almost always works is that it's up to the producing party (in this case Brady) to provide everything that the requesting party (here, Wells) requests. Very rarely do you get to do a search of someone's computer or phones. So there wouldn't be anything that unusual about Wells telling Brady's lawyer to produce relevant texts. But you can get into big, big trouble in litigation if you don't provide documents that you're asked to produce, unless you have a decent excuse, which I don't know if Brady has or doesn't have. A case of the coverup being worse than the crime. That's ultimately the point here- the coverup and lack of transparency from Brady is what will likely get him suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 That's ultimately the point here- the coverup and lack of transparency from Brady is what will likely get him suspended. It's funny how these guys never fess-up. Regardless how wrong they look.. Clemens, Incognito, Rose, Hernandez, Bonds, A-Rod, Armstrong, etc.. It's always deny-deny-deny.. and then live the rest of your life like a clown when they expose you. Comical really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well it's becoming the wild west over in Dallas now, they have reportedly signed La'el Collins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/09/report-brady-suspension-will-be-announced-next-week/ Just a matter of how long now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/09/report-brady-suspension-will-be-announced-next-week/ Just a matter of how long now... What's so stupid is that if Brady had just friggin' admitted it at the time, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal. There wouldn't have been any investigation (or not one nearly as thorough and time-consuming), the Pats would've been hit with an equipment-tampering penalty, some talking heads and pundits would've taken turns trying to see who can sound the most outraged and profound, and that would've been it. The "crime" itself really isn't that bad...definitely bad in that balls were tampered with when they shouldn't have been, but there's far worse. I will always wonder why people play the "deny, deny, deny" card in this day and age where it's so much easier to find potentially damning information. What's the point? It's a form of procrastination, really...maybe you won't get busted right away, but you WILL get busted eventually, and with stiffer penalties and far more damage to your reputation and your credibility. What these guys don't seem to get is, with the moral bar set fairly low these days, if they would just admit what they did at the time they get caught, be fairly contrite, show a little emotion and offer up a lot of apologies, whether or not it's phony or heartfelt, several fans WILL forgive them and move on in time...though so many people get holier-than-thou when writing about and discussing these situations (like they've never done anything wrong or made a mistake in their lives), deep down, many of them want to forgive their sports heroes. But when these players take the "lie & deny" tact, it damn near will always blow up in their faces. Look, we all know Roger Goddell is a complete clown who probably has no further business running the NFL, but I can't blame him one bit if he decides that he's going to make an example of Brady with a potentially lengthy suspension, to show that his days of bungling just about everything he's been involved with lately are somehow over. And from a pure Xs and Os standpoint, I can't help but wonder what will happen if Garopollo were to step right in and play well for the Pats. Does Brady ever get his job back? Sounds crazy to even write it (and no one knows how Garopollo will fare), but I can't help but feel Kraft and BB might be plenty ticked off about this...they pushed their chips to the center of the table in support of Brady, who clearly wasn't 100% honest with either one of them. Edited May 9, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I can't help but wonder what will happen if Garopollo were to step right in and play well for the Pats. Does Brady ever get his job back? Sounds crazy to even write it (and no one knows how Garopollo will fare), but I can't help but feel Kraft and BB might be plenty ticked off about this...they pushed their chips to the center of the table in support of Brady, who clearly wasn't 100% honest with either one of them. That's the most interesting aspect in this. There have been numerous reports I've read saying how Belichick is extremely hurt and upset about this whole thing. And when you factor in the quote from Kraft in: "we will accept whatever penalty the NFL distributes" --you definitely get a sense that they're letting Brady fight this battle alone. If Brady is suspended 6 games, and during that time Garoppolo throws 10 TD's and leads the Pats to a 4-2 record.. then this could all get very ugly very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 And the Pats get popped...Brady suspended four games, team fined a million bucks and loses two draft picks including a first-rounder. Honestly I think this is about the Pats being defiant..if Brady'd either come clean or the Pats had complied fully with the investigation he's probably out a game or two and they lose a mid-level draft pick, but the league's definitely tired of their bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Holy sh!t this makes the Kovalchuk penalty look MILD I do hope that official who neglected to check the balls properly before kick-off is penalized too.....not to mention the league make a legit poilicy about actually having these footballs properly prepared before games.....once again, the biggest crime you can commit in the NFL is making the league look bad....wheeeeee..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 This is a stiff penalty, not a death sentence. Curious to see how they do in Brady's absense. If Garoppolo can go 2-2...then they probably survive this and win the AFC east again, if he crashes and burns and goes 0-4, then it could throw a huge monkey wrench into their plans at repeating. Kraft is a rich man...but nobody likes being out 1mil, and that 1st round pick. Well they've flubbed a lot of 1st rounders and still gone on to dominate. But I guess we'll only really know years from now what they missed out on with that pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 This is a stiff penalty, not a death sentence. Curious to see how they do in Brady's absense. If Garoppolo can go 2-2...then they probably survive this and win the AFC east again, if he crashes and burns and goes 0-4, then it could throw a huge monkey wrench into their plans at repeating. Kraft is a rich man...but nobody likes being out 1mil, and that 1st round pick. Well they've flubbed a lot of 1st rounders and still gone on to dominate. But I guess we'll only really know years from now what they missed out on with that pick. The $1 million is pretty much nothing. The Pats had $444 million in revenue last year, and the fine obviously doesn't get paid out of Kraft's bank account. The first rounder is really only a huge deal if the Pats are bad next year, and it looks like one way or the other that there's no QB for the future, which doesn't appear to be the case in that Brady still has a few more years of quality football in him, and Garropollo is a decent bet to be an NFL quality QB especially given that he's well coached and has not been thrown into the wringer immediately. We'll see, but I think they're good enough to make the playoffs with a 1-3 start. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Holy sh!t this makes the Kovalchuk penalty look MILD I do hope that official who neglected to check the balls properly before kick-off is penalized too.....not to mention the league make a legit poilicy about actually having these footballs properly prepared before games.....once again, the biggest crime you can commit in the NFL is making the league look bad....wheeeeee..... It's actually almost exactly what the Kovalchuk penalty was pretty much $3 million, a 1st/3rd round picks compared to $1 million, 1st/4th round picks and a four-game suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDPucks Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The NFL is 0-5 in their last 5 appeal hearings where Goddell wasn't the arbiter and has gotten slammed in each case. Brady is a big NFLPA guy being the Patriots alternate team rep plus the lockout lawsuit was "Brady v. NFL". This will become another NFLPA player appealing against the big bad league office whose case possessed numerous holes. Minimum Brady gets this knocked down to 1-game if not outright. Isn't it funny that in this ruling the NFL gets to continue to be a huge headline center with this lame scandal as the appeals progress now takes up the league's post-draft dead zone all of the way to : 1- Training Camp, 2- Opening Night, 3- A prime 4 p.m. Patriots-Dallas match-up, and 4- a Patriots-Colts SNF game which potentially is Brady's return and a rematch with the Fredo. Sure we say they would have gotten people to watch anyway but instead of good NFL #'s now you get the reality TV casual sports fan the NFL craves to extend the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Brady is a big NFLPA guy being the Patriots alternate team rep plus the lockout lawsuit was "Brady v. NFL". This will become another NFLPA player appealing against the big bad league office whose case possessed numerous holes. Minimum Brady gets this knocked down to 1-game if not outright. The Brady Camp may very try to appeal this.. but they will lose. The second they ask Brady for his phone, and he says no.. it's; Have a Nice Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I guess ignorance IS an excuse... If you're the Patriots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDPucks Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The Brady Camp may very try to appeal this.. but they will lose. The second they ask Brady for his phone, and he says no.. it's; Have a Nice Day Brady's phone doesn't matter when they have McNally's and Jestremsky's messages to/from Brady anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The Brady Camp may very try to appeal this.. but they will lose. The second they ask Brady for his phone, and he says no.. it's; Have a Nice Day Brady's phone doesn't matter when they have McNally's and Jestremsky's messages to/from Brady anyway.Look he's not appealing away the whole suspension. He'll get 2 if he wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) theyll get away with a slap on the wrist, just like they did last time Spygate Penalty(s) • Bill Belichick fined $500,000.00 • Patriots Organization fined $250,000.00 • Withdrawal of 1st Round Draft Pick. Deflategate Penalty(s) • Patriots Organization fined $1,000,000.00 • Tom Brady suspended 4 games. • 1st Round Draft Pick forfeited for 2016. • 4th Round Draft Pick forfeited for 2017. I don't feel the sanctions levied from either incidents were meek. In fact, I believe the league hammered them harshly both times.. and I'm Jets fan! Edited May 12, 2015 by Beezer34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Look he's not appealing away the whole suspension. He'll get 2 if he wins. ..he won't win. The verbiage favors the NFL entirely. Brady may think that he'll get the same treatment as he would a court of law in front of a jury.. but he's in for a rude awakening. This is not the judicial system, this is a professional sports league. They established the standard of preponderance of evidence, that: as a whole, the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not. That's all you need if you read the wording on what the players sign. Brady's fvcked. Edited May 12, 2015 by Beezer34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Brady's phone doesn't matter when they have McNally's and Jestremsky's messages to/from Brady anyway. And that's the key. I can understand why Brady did not want to give his phone to Wells (would you want a bunch of first or second year law firm associates looking at your texts with your wife) but he had an obligation to hand over the texts that were relevant to the investigation, and it appears as if the league has him dead to rights that he did not do that, which is based on the texts that McNally and Jestemsky did turn over. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Ted Wells sounds off.. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12873329/ted-wells-strongly-defends-deflategate-investigation-amid-ridiculous-allegations "All of this discussion that people at the league office wanted to put some type of hit on the most popular, iconic player in the league.. it just doesn't make any sense." Wells said at the end of a 30-minute call. "It's really a ridiculous allegation. What drove the decision in this report was one thing -- evidence! I could not have ethically ignored the import and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence. No one can ignore the implications of that text message, and no one can see it as a joke. Nor is it circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence and it is inculpatory." Wells' voice rose at times as he challenged Brady's agent, Don Yee, to produce all notes from Brady's interview. "It is wrong to criticize my independence just because you disagree with my findings! The NFL certainly wasn't hoping that I would come back with a report that would find that something happened wrong with the Patriots or Tom Brady. They wanted me to get to the bottom of the facts." Wells also cited text messages in which official locker room attendant Jim McNally wrote "I'm not going to espn........yet" I love this. Put that bastard Yee in his place. Acted like a fvcking baby with his bullsh!t "sting operation" --and-- "predetermined outcome" nonsense. He may as well've come out and stomp his feet. At least THAT temper-tantrum would've been more honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Ted Wells sounds off.. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12873329/ted-wells-strongly-defends-deflategate-investigation-amid-ridiculous-allegations "All of this discussion that people at the league office wanted to put some type of hit on the most popular, iconic player in the league.. it just doesn't make any sense." Wells said at the end of a 30-minute call. "It's really a ridiculous allegation. What drove the decision in this report was one thing -- evidence! I could not have ethically ignored the import and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence. No one can ignore the implications of that text message, and no one can see it as a joke. Nor is it circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence and it is inculpatory." Wells' voice rose at times as he challenged Brady's agent, Don Yee, to produce all notes from Brady's interview. "It is wrong to criticize my independence just because you disagree with my findings! The NFL certainly wasn't hoping that I would come back with a report that would find that something happened wrong with the Patriots or Tom Brady. They wanted me to get to the bottom of the facts." Wells also cited text messages in which official locker room attendant Jim McNally wrote "I'm not going to espn........yet" I love this. Put that bastard Yee in his place. Acted like a fvcking baby with his bullsh!t "sting operation" --and-- "predetermined outcome" nonsense. He may as well've come out and stomp his feet. At least THAT temper-tantrum would've been more honest! Beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS#4-Life Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Ted Wells sounds off.. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12873329/ted-wells-strongly-defends-deflategate-investigation-amid-ridiculous-allegations "All of this discussion that people at the league office wanted to put some type of hit on the most popular, iconic player in the league.. it just doesn't make any sense." Wells said at the end of a 30-minute call. "It's really a ridiculous allegation. What drove the decision in this report was one thing -- evidence! I could not have ethically ignored the import and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence. No one can ignore the implications of that text message, and no one can see it as a joke. Nor is it circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence and it is inculpatory." Wells' voice rose at times as he challenged Brady's agent, Don Yee, to produce all notes from Brady's interview. "It is wrong to criticize my independence just because you disagree with my findings! The NFL certainly wasn't hoping that I would come back with a report that would find that something happened wrong with the Patriots or Tom Brady. They wanted me to get to the bottom of the facts." Wells also cited text messages in which official locker room attendant Jim McNally wrote "I'm not going to espn........yet" I love this. Put that bastard Yee in his place. Acted like a fvcking baby with his bullsh!t "sting operation" --and-- "predetermined outcome" nonsense. He may as well've come out and stomp his feet. At least THAT temper-tantrum would've been more honest! this is going to get very nasty in a hurry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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