2018-19 Around the League Thread

[Devil Dan 56]

 Edmonton fans are fun

[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

 Edmonton fans are fun

These things annoy me because you can do it with any player that was ever traded and it means nothing. Ones that bother me from our own team are “we traded Tom Kurvers for Niedermayer”, which of course isn’t true, we got a draft pick, Toronto sh!t the bed but not enough to get us the #1 overall, and we drafted Niedermayer. Not the same.

Even worse were the arguments that we traded Alex Kerfoot for Will Butcher. There’s no way to argue that with any credibility.

 

 

[Devil Dan 56]

4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

These things annoy me because you can do it with any player that was ever traded and it means nothing. Ones that bother me from our own team are “we traded Tom Kurvers for Niedermayer”, which of course isn’t true, we got a draft pick, Toronto sh!t the bed but not enough to get us the #1 overall, and we drafted Niedermayer. Not the same.

Even worse were the arguments that we traded Alex Kerfoot for Will Butcher. There’s no way to argue that with any credibility.

 

 

I'm pretty sure this was done tongue in cheek. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I'm pretty sure this was done tongue in cheek. 

It absolutely was. But then idiots read it on the internet and start arguing it as fact. Happens all the time. 

[jagknife]

Noooooooooooo!!! They finally did it!!!!!!

 

[Satans Hockey]

A sad day for Devils fans. The deal is one for one. Thanks for everything Peter. ❤️

[Devil Dan 56]

Its so sad to see the great Edmonton gift leave. I really wanted to see what gems he came up with at the trade deadline

[NJDfan1711]

8 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Its so sad to see the great Edmonton gift leave. I really wanted to see what gems he came up with at the trade deadline

Gotta hand it to ownership for pulling the plug before he had the chance to destroy their 2019-20 season lol.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Gotta hand it to ownership for pulling the plug before he had the chance to destroy their 2019-20 season lol.

Yup, kinda like “we can’t let this maniac be in charge at the deadline”. 

[MadDog2020]

McDavid probably pulled a ‘him or me’ deal with ownership, and I wouldn’t blame him if he did. https://deadspin.com/the-oilers-finally-fired-peter-chiarelli-who-did-so-li-1831980105?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=deadspin_facebook

[Devil Dan 56]

4 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Gotta hand it to ownership for pulling the plug before he had the chance to destroy their 2019-20 season lol.

I feel like he's already gone a decent job ruining that season!

[Lateralous]

It's absolutely stunning how little the Oilers have to show for 12 years of high picks and repeated good luck in the draft lottery.  What's even worse is that they are pressed tight up against the salary cap.   It's like those charts they used to do with Milbury where if he just picked the highest rated player at his spot in the draft each year and stayed away from the blockbuster trades, he would have had a juggernaut.    

Edited January 23, 2019 by Lateralous

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

20 hours ago, Lateralous said:

It's absolutely stunning how little the Oilers have to show for 12 years of high picks and repeated good luck in the draft lottery.  What's even worse is that they are pressed tight up against the salary cap.   It's like those charts they used to do with Milbury where if he just picked the highest rated player at his spot in the draft each year and stayed away from the blockbuster trades, he would have had a juggernaut.    

The first 10 years of the Scouts/Rockies/Devils were sadly similar.  The 1974-75 Scouts managed 41 points in their in augural season.  The 1983-84 Devils also came up with 41 points.  So in one decade of existence, the franchise had made NO progress...sure, some seasons were a little better than others, but they never won more than 22 games in any given season to that point.  Just awful.   

Edited January 24, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[thecoffeecake]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/seven-notable-trades-ex-oilers-gm-peter-chiarelli/sn-amp/

Hahahaha, what a bum. I can't wait to see which franchise sinks itself hiring him this time. 

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

So in one decade of existence, the franchise had made NO progress

Hmm, that sounds like our current team, actually. 

[SterioDesign]

7 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Hmm, that sounds like our current team, actually. 

Come on now. We had the slowest, oldest team with absolutely no future ahead in 2015, no exciting prospects, our top scorer had 41 points.

To say we made no progress from that is ridiculous

[mfitz804]

6 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Come on now. We had the slowest, oldest team with absolutely no future ahead in 2015, no exciting prospects, our top scorer had 41 points.

To say we made no progress from that is ridiculous

We are sitting here talking about finishing last and getting the first pick overall. That doesn’t seem like a whole lot of progress to me, especially where we have missed the playoffs almost every year during the last 10 years.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

47 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

We are sitting here talking about finishing last and getting the first pick overall. That doesn’t seem like a whole lot of progress to me, especially where we have missed the playoffs almost every year during the last 10 years.

In fairness, with what's going on currently, it's hard for me to lump all 10 years together...you had one regime that was never going to stop trying to keep a sinking ship afloat, no matter how much water it was taking on.  Shero came into a tough spot, because he didn't have a whole lot to work with on the big club, and thanks to an almost comical series of terrible drafts, had damned near nothing in the farm.  That's a hell of a double whammy to try to overcome quickly. 

This being said, as fine as I am with his approach this past offseason (I'll always be OK with him not overpaying for the iffy UFAs that were actually available to the Devils in 2018), I hope this isn't going to become a "punt multiple seasons away" kind of deal.  Unfortunately if NJ has somehow become THAT unattractive of destination for potential UFAs, and there aren't quite enough young pieces or picks to deal off for young vet types, then we might have to be more patient than we want to be.  Not saying I'll love it, but that might be the reality. 

And I'll admit it, of course the circumstances are entirely different and this comparison isn't fair, but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't occasionally get aggravated that Vegas built a team out of friggin' thin air that's more competitive than what the Devils are currently icing.

[mfitz804]

The reasons are what they are, but 10 years ago we were doing great, and now we’re in the toilet. I don’t see that as progress. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

33 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The reasons are what they are, but 10 years ago we were doing great, and now we’re in the toilet. I don’t see that as progress. 

Sure, that's a "no-shades-of-gray" way of looking at it (like I said, I don't know how fair it is to lump the prior regime's keep-it-going follies and drafting disasters with the current one's rebuild), but it all depends on how one measures progress.  They did make the playoffs last year, and there's definitely more talent on the team than there was right after Lou left.  There was next to no hope then, and that was with none of us predicting that Cory's game would go into witness protection.

It's not progress in that it's not like this team is close to being able to compete with the big boys 3.5 seasons later.  But at least Shero found a way to get some pieces here (and obviously got some great fortune with Nico), and was able to be pretty creative in making that happen.  The jury's out on the current lot of kids in the system.

I'm not going to pretend it's all gone swimmingly under Shero.  We've been over it, but some of his more recent moves simply didn't pan out or pay off as hoped or expected.  If Blackwood turns out to be a brief flash-in-the-pan, it's really scary to think about the goalie situation (and for that matter, how that affects Shero's gameplan).  That feels like a pick that Shero really needs to hit on. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SterioDesign]

31 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The reasons are what they are, but 10 years ago we were doing great, and now we’re in the toilet. I don’t see that as progress. 

Well sure if you look at the situation from a black and white perspective like that ignoring everything else sure. If you're going to look at it like that, why not just go "well...we picked the first overall and the next season we made the playoffs" that's the pure description of progress.

We have a young team, guys we can build around, we're finally starting to build an assets pool, we have cap room to spend if there's an opportunity. We have an owner who's not falling apart, we have a fast team. All things we didnt have not long ago

What we have right now is potential to grow. What we had then was a farewell tour with no future.

 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Sure, that's a "no-shades-of-gray" way of looking at it (like I said, I don't know how fair it is to lump the prior regime's keep-it-going follies and drafting disasters with the current one's rebuild), but it all depends on how one measures progress.  They did make the playoffs last year, and there's definitely more talent on the team than there was right after Lou left.  There was next to no hope then, and that was with none of us predicting that Cory's game would go into witness protection.

It's not progress in that it's not like this team is close to being able to compete with the big boys 3.5 seasons later.  But at least Shero found a way to get some pieces here (and obviously got some great fortune with Nico), and was able to be pretty creative in making that happen.   

I'm not going to pretend it's all gone swimmingly under Shero.  We've been over it, but some of his more recent moves simply didn't pan out or pay off as hoped or expected.  If Blackwood turns out to be a brief flash-in-the-pan, it's really scary to think about the goalie situation (and for that matter, how that affects Shero's gameplan).  That feels like a pick that Shero really needs to hit on. 

But you’re talking about progress going forward, which may or may not happen.

I’m talking about where we were 10 years ago, and where we are now. Two very different things. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Well sure if you look at the situation from a black and white perspective like that ignoring everything else sure. If you're going to look at it like that, why not just go "well...we picked the first overall and the next season we made the playoffs" that's the pure description of progress.

We have a young team, guys we can build around, we're finally starting to build an assets pool, we have cap room to spend if there's an opportunity. We have an owner who's not falling apart, we have a fast team. All things we didnt have not long ago

What we have right now is potential to grow. What we had then was a farewell tour with no future.

 

That’s the pure description of progress over one year, not over 10 years. 

All the rest is, again, optimism that we can progress in the future. Have we made some grand progress in the last 10 years? Nope. Not at all. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

But you’re talking about progress going forward, which may or may not happen.

I’m talking about where we were 10 years ago, and where we are now. Two very different things. 

You're overrating where the Devils were in 2007-08 and 2008-09 (depending on where you're starting from)...the 2007-08 did make the playoffs, but got waxed by the Rangers in five games, in torturous fashion (friggin' Avery)...in 2008-09, another playoff appearance, and a firm boot to the balls courtesy of the Hurricanes. 

So last season, one could make the argument that the 2007-08 Devils and the 2017-18 Devils was at least some form of status quo...not necessarily pure "progress", but not a backslide either. 

I'm hoping that this is a bump in the road, and that Shero will try to make some more aggressive moves in the 2019 offseason.  And then hopefully, in 2020-21, as the Devils are clearly in the hunt for a playoff berth, we're talking about how much progress has been made from 2010-11. 

[mfitz804]

52 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You're overrating where the Devils were in 2007-08 and 2008-09 (depending on where you're starting from)...the 2007-08 did make the playoffs, but got waxed by the Rangers in five games, in torturous fashion (friggin' Avery)...in 2008-09, another playoff appearance, and a firm boot to the balls courtesy of the Hurricanes. 

So last season, one could make the argument that the 2007-08 Devils and the 2017-18 Devils was at least some form of status quo...not necessarily pure "progress", but not a backslide either. 

I'm hoping that this is a bump in the road, and that Shero will try to make some more aggressive moves in the 2019 offseason.  And then hopefully, in 2020-21, as the Devils are clearly in the hunt for a playoff berth, we're talking about how much progress has been made from 2010-11. 

I didn't argue a backslide. My argument is we have not made progress over the last 10 years. 

Let's break it down, season by season. 

2009-10: 103 points, 1st place in the Division, 2nd in the Conference behind a Washington team that put up 121 points. 

2010-11: 81 points, 11th in the Conference, missed the playoffs. 

2011-12: 102 points, 4th in the Conference, unlikely SCF run. 

2012-13: 48 points in a 48 game season, 11th in Conference, missed the playoffs. 

2013-14: 88 points, missed the playoffs. 

2014-15: 78 points, missed the playoffs.

2015-16: 84 points, missed the playoffs. 

2016-17: 70 points, missed the playoffs. 

2017-18: 97 points, 5th in the Division, made the playoffs by the skin of their ass on the last day of the season, as a second wild card because of an MVP season from one guy. 

2018-19: a horrific bloody abortion, probably about 80-85 points if we play only as sh!tty as we played in the first half and not worse. 

Now lets look at 10 years of first round draft picks (OK, I did 11 to point out how Tedenby sucked):

2008: Mattias Tedenby (no longer in NHL)

2009: Jacob Josefson (no longer in NHL)

2010: Nobody (pick was part of the deal for Kovalchuk, who walked out of the NHL)

2011: Adam Larsson (I'll concede that one, because the trade was one for one)

2012: Stefan Matteau (AHL, and his father is a party-ruining douche)

2013: Traded our pick for Cory Schneider (no longer in NHL? Please?)

2014: John Quenneville (AHL, best thing he ever did was have a boner during a meeting)

2015: Pavel Zacha (a quality NHL player...Almost!!)

2016: Michael McLeod (AHL)

2017: Nico Hischier (looks good)

2018: Ty Smith (looks good, too soon to know anything)

If you want to argue we have made progress over the last 2-3 years, so that we may progress in the NEXT 7-8 years, I'll say that's probably true. But have we made progress over the LAST TEN years? Nope. 

And if you think that 2017-18 was the status quo and this year is the aberration, I am not sure what you are basing that on. If anything, looking at the last 10 shows that 2017-18 was the aberration.