Triumph Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Arnott didn't play well, but ultimately, some of it comes down to the guy making the line combinations, too. He had two decent offensive wingers in Rolston and Thomas locked up with Carp, he buried the kids, etc. I remember thant Rolston and Thomas got a cup of coffee with Brendan Morrison in '98 and they looked pretty damn good. ftorek buried rolston with carpenter the next season too (along with pandolfo). i think madden is in a similar spot to carpenter right now - his best days are clearly behind him, he's still got some use on the defensive side, but coaches love guys like madden so they overplay them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) I guess you're coming around to that line of thinking now since earlier this year when Sutter wouldn't play the kids and didn't have a fourth line you said depth was overrated and were arguing for this same kind of thinking. Maybe if we had given one or more of the kids a fair shot this year we wouldn't have had to play Bobby Holik and PL3 in playoff games. no? depth is overrated, and the kids played awful. and pl3 never played in a playoff game. i mean, depth is important when people get hurt, but besides that, your 4th line, as long as it's guys that belong in the nhl, isn't going to make much of a difference. i don't think the 'kids' should have played - the 'kids' were playing terrible and costing the team games. in 1998, elias had 18 goals and sykora had 16. in 2008, petr vrana had 1 goal and nicklas bergfors had... 1 goal as well. these two are not the next coming of sykora and elias. edit: yes i understand that vrana and bergfors had only 1 goal each because they were never given ice time, but they weren't given ice time because they were not playing well at all, vrana in particular. Edited June 8, 2009 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 ftorek buried rolston with carpenter the next season too (along with pandolfo). i think madden is in a similar spot to carpenter right now - his best days are clearly behind him, he's still got some use on the defensive side, but coaches love guys like madden so they overplay them. from what I remember of Carp, Madden is infinitely better than him offensively, he just can't finish. Carp didn't even generate anything. He was just removing time off the clock. Especially considering who his wings were, it was sad. Thomas got out of that dumbass situation and immediately turns around and puts up 70+ points the next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge18 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 no? depth is overrated, and the kids played awful. and pl3 never played in a playoff game.i mean, depth is important when people get hurt, but besides that, your 4th line, as long as it's guys that belong in the nhl, isn't going to make much of a difference. i don't think the 'kids' should have played - the 'kids' were playing terrible and costing the team games. After Vrana was justifiably dumped from the Elias line and Bergfors dropped to the 4th line, they were set up to fail. Vrana is not and never will be an nhl center and it showed, but having two smaller rookies on the same line without any veteran help(if i remember right Rupp was the 3rd guy on the line) is giving them no chance to succeed. Why Sutter never put Rupp in the middle with all the responsibility ill never know. It at least would have minimized the weaknesses of the kids in their own end. It doesnt solve Bergfors occasional bad pass in the offensive zone, the lack of toughness on the wings, but it helps, especially if they were so forced to be in the lineup. While not as much of a defense for Vrana as it is for Bergfors, but his 8 games took place right when Marty got hurt. The entire team was in flux, certainly not the right sort of situation for a kid to get his first nhl shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) no? depth is overrated, and the kids played awful. and pl3 never played in a playoff game.i mean, depth is important when people get hurt, but besides that, your 4th line, as long as it's guys that belong in the nhl, isn't going to make much of a difference. i don't think the 'kids' should have played - the 'kids' were playing terrible and costing the team games. in 1998, elias had 18 goals and sykora had 16. in 2008, petr vrana had 1 goal and nicklas bergfors had... 1 goal as well. these two are not the next coming of sykora and elias. edit: yes i understand that vrana and bergfors had only 1 goal each because they were never given ice time, but they weren't given ice time because they were not playing well at all, vrana in particular. Bergfors showed some skill in his very brief time. He could have been a nice part of this team last year if given a chance. And I don't mean the 4-6 minutes he was getting here. You were against the kids playing from the start and like Sutter...never wanted to give them a chance. Forgot to mention he was playing with Vrana...not the best situation for both of them. Edited June 8, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) After Vrana was justifiably dumped from the Elias line and Bergfors dropped to the 4th line, they were set up to fail. Vrana is not and never will be an nhl center and it showed, but having two smaller rookies on the same line without any veteran help(if i remember right Rupp was the 3rd guy on the line) is giving them no chance to succeed. Why Sutter never put Rupp in the middle with all the responsibility ill never know. It at least would have minimized the weaknesses of the kids in their own end. It doesnt solve Bergfors occasional bad pass in the offensive zone, the lack of toughness on the wings, but it helps, especially if they were so forced to be in the lineup.While not as much of a defense for Vrana as it is for Bergfors, but his 8 games took place right when Marty got hurt. The entire team was in flux, certainly not the right sort of situation for a kid to get his first nhl shot. rupp was the center on that line, not vrana - i am pretty sure vrana was never used at center by new jersey, or at least he wasn't used at center on that 4th line. i agree it's hardly ideal, but i also think if you're an nhl player, you'll find a way to demonstrate it. bergfors could have contributed on the team, i think that's obvious from his AHL play. i do have a doubt over whom he should have played, or where he fit in on last year's squad. as a RW he was behind langenbrunner, gionta, clarkson, and rolston, then later shanahan. he needed a year in the AHL to raise his confidence, and he got it - i think it was the right move to keep him in the minors. Edited June 8, 2009 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USC09 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 My Top Five are: 5. Marc Crawford 4. Peter Laviolette 3. Bob Hartley 2. Jacques Lemaire 1. John MacLean A longshot is Todd Richards, who is likely headed to Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Just curious ... why are so many people so anti-MacLean? I'm not disagreeing, but just wondering why the sentiment is so strong. Besides the fact that he's been passed over for the coaching job here multiple times and no other team has ever shown any interest in him whatsoever, he couldn't diagram a decent power play to save his life and is a clueless offensive coach. I'm not trying to sh!t on Johnny Mac here- I loved him as a player and will always appreciate the numerous contributions he made to this franchise- but he isn't head coaching material. sh!t, he isn't even a good assistant. My Top Five are:5. Marc Crawford 4. Peter Laviolette 3. Bob Hartley 2. Jacques Lemaire 1. John MacLean A longshot is Todd Richards, who is likely headed to Minnesota. You have GOT to be fvcking kidding me... seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 My Top Five are:5. Marc Crawford 4. Peter Laviolette 3. Bob Hartley 2. Jacques Lemaire 1. John MacLean A longshot is Todd Richards, who is likely headed to Minnesota. I disagree with you... I don't think John MacLean has proven anything... Jacques Lemaire is a great coach but a step back for this team that is trying to get away from trapping and line matching... Hartley isn't a bad choice... Laviolette and Crawford would be the two I take from your list as possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravityFat Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I'll take Laviolette, it's a good move for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Besides the fact that he's been passed over for the coaching job here multiple times and no other team has ever shown any interest in him whatsoever, he couldn't diagram a decent power play to save his life and is a clueless offensive coach. I'm not trying to sh!t on Johnny Mac here- I loved him as a player and will always appreciate the numerous contributions he made to this franchise- but he isn't head coaching material. sh!t, he isn't even a good assistant.You have GOT to be fvcking kidding me... seriously. How about we make some things clear. We have no idea if MacLean has drawn any interest around the league. I have no idea what his contract situation has ever been either. Lou has passed him over for reasons as well. He had been trying to get Sutter for years and was looking for no one else but him. When Julien and Robinson got fired, there was no way he was going to throw a rookie coach into that fire and that is why Lou went down there himself. To fix his mess...more so in 2006 than 2007. If Lou passes over MacLean if Sutter steps down...then I agree Lou has no interest in J-Mac being the head coach of this team. But no one really knows what is going on with other teams. Who knows if other GMs want to call Lou and ask to have an interview with someone under contract. Maybe they did and Lou declined. And very rarely do other assistant coaches get promoted to become the head coach of a different team when they have no head coaching experience. Todd McLellan situations are rare and he came very highly regarded from the best team in the league. Edited June 9, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunninWithTheDevil Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 lemaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 How about we make some things clear. We have no idea if MacLean has drawn any interest around the league. I have no idea what his contract situation has ever been either. Lou has passed him over for reason as well. He had been trying to get Sutter for years and was looking for no one else but him. When Julien and Robinson got fired, there was no way he was going to throw a rookie coach into the mix and that is why Lou went down there himself. To fix his mess...more so in 2006 than 2007. If Lou passes over MacLean if Sutter steps down...then I agree Lou has no interest in J-Mac being the head coach of this team. But no one really knows what is going on with other teams. Who knows if other GMs want to call Lou and ask to have an interview with someone under contract. Maybe they did and Lou declined. And very rarely do other assistant coaches get promoted to become the head coach of a different team when they have no head coaching experience. Todd McLellan situations are rare and he came very highly regarded from the best team in the league. Lou wouldn't deny MacLean the chance to get a promotion... that's just a dick move of the highest order. Trust me- no one is or ever was interested or we'd know. Again, the fact he's been passed up for the Devils job on more than one occasion speaks volumes to me. I absolutely refuse to (no pun intended) play devils advocate on this one. Johnny Mac is not the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Poster Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 lemaire Hire a coach to play a system and style of play that is unsuited for the current NHL. Brilliant! Some of you really need to get over the past players and coaches that once spent time here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Lou wouldn't deny MacLean the chance to get a promotion... that's just a dick move of the highest order. Trust me- no one is or ever was interested or we'd know. Again, the fact he's been passed up for the Devils job on more than one occasion speaks volumes to me. I absolutely refuse to (no pun intended) play devils advocate on this one. Johnny Mac is not the answer. Maybe Lou wants him for the future, or maybe no one wants to call Lou and ask his permission. Some GMs don't like dealing with Lou or don't want to ruffle his feathers, and again it is so rare to see a team take a rookie assistant from another team and make them the head coach. I can pretty much guarantee that MacLean will be a head coach somewhere in this league. I don't think Lou passed on him, rather not wanting to put a rookie coach in a bad situation. I think if Lou passed on him this time around, like I said...it would speak volumes. No team ever puts a rookie coach in a bad situation. It just doesn't work like that. Edited June 9, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Maybe Lou wants him for the future, or maybe no one wants to call Lou and ask his permission. Some GMs don't like dealing with Lou or don't want to ruffle his feathers, and again it is so rare to see a team take a rookie assistant from another team and make them a coach.I can pretty much guarantee that MacLean will be a head coach somewhere in this league. I don't think Lou passed on him, rather than not wanting to put a rookie coach in a bad situation. I think if Lou passed on him this time around, like I said...it would speak volumes. No team ever puts a rookie coach in a bad situation. It just doesn't work like that. Juding on what he's done as an assistant, hopefully it will be thousands of miles away from North Jersey. Edited June 9, 2009 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime98 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Dear Lou, PLEASE do not hire Lemaire as head coach. Signed, Every Devils fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Maybe Lou wants him for the future, or maybe no one wants to call Lou and ask his permission. Some GMs don't like dealing with Lou or don't want to ruffle his feathers, and again it is so rare to see a team take a rookie assistant from another team and make them the head coach.I can pretty much guarantee that MacLean will be a head coach somewhere in this league. I don't think Lou passed on him, rather not wanting to put a rookie coach in a bad situation. I think if Lou passed on him this time around, like I said...it would speak volumes. No team ever puts a rookie coach in a bad situation. It just doesn't work like that. If that was the case why would he have hired Sutter in the first place? In theory Sutter was THE long-term solution. The fact that he passed on him the last time spoke volumes enough. I can see it now, Lemaire in on a one-two year contract and Lou regurgitating the same line about how Johnny Mac will be a head coach in this league one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 If Lemaire is even considered, Lou has gone senile and should be forced to resign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Lightning Blog Let the speculation begin... The Lightning's flirtation with Jacques Lemaire has come to an end, and apparently on good terms. Tampa Bay wanted to hire the former Wild coach as a senior consultant. But Lemaire said on Monday he has told Lightning GM Brian Lawton he has another offer that has gained his interest and which he is pursuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime98 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Lightning BlogLet the speculation begin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Lightning BlogLet the speculation begin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 flames are still looking for a coach. montreal is still looking for a coach. florida is looking for a general manager i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section 110 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Laviolette is the right guy right now. But regardless of the coach, it will still be Lou's team and play Lou's style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 flames are still looking for a coach. montreal is still looking for a coach. florida is looking for a general manager i think. Martin is the coach in Montreal now I believe. I'd take a guess that Sutter is going to coach the Flames and that during this wait they have been working out compensation, money, stuff like that. I think I remember saying Lemaire wanted to coach still... that would steer him away from the GM job in Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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