devilsrule33 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Its August. Time for another few rounds of HOF or No HOF. Last year NJDevs voted in Scott Niedermayer, Mike Modano, Joe Nieuwendyk, Teemu Selanne, Sergei Federov, and Peter Forsberg into the Hockey Hall of Fame. Here is a recap of the voting last season. http://njdevs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38965&pid=644879&mode=threaded&start= First up this year Edited August 5, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prucenterrules Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Hall of Fame. 1338 points grants you into the group of hall of fame players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Pride 26 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Is it just me or was this a weak era for HOF quality of play? I never really saw the 90's but it seems like there's a lot more stars in the league today? So that begs the question does a player who might not be a HOF during a different time frame get elected because he was one of the best players in an era where there just wasn't that much talent in the league? Sorry for all the points ending in questions, but I didn't want to make myself look like a fool by talking about something that I really don't know much about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSC Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Is it just me or was this a weak era for HOF quality of play? I never really saw the 90's but it seems like there's a lot more stars in the league today? So that begs the question does a player who might not be a HOF during a different time frame get elected because he was one of the best players in an era where there just wasn't that much talent in the league? Sorry for all the points ending in questions, but I didn't want to make myself look like a fool by talking about something that I really don't know much about. I recall hearing that argument a few times when people are debating why scoring was down in the 90's. Its not that goalies were dominant or that the trap became more prevalent, though those may have been factors, but scorers just weren't, y'know, scoring. Now this is obviously not first hand knowledge from me, but this is a point that I've seen brought up before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Not a flashy HOF skillset, but not everybody can stand in front of the net for decades, take a pounding, stay durable, and become an expert at deflecting shots in and finding rebounds. Unless you're making a strict hall of fame where only the super elite get in, andreychuk has to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH26 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm of the opinion that you truly have to be great to get into the hall of fame, and as much as I loved andreychuk, he just wasn't that. He was a very good player for a very long time but never was he one of the best players of his time. Your only argument to me is that he played in the "dead puck era" but I still don't think he was "great enough" (ps- I know I sound like Skip Bayless) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) You can't use the dead puck era excuse for Dave Andrechuk. I know he finished his career after the lockout, but the man started it in 1982. Edited August 5, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Pride 26 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I recall hearing that argument a few times when people are debating why scoring was down in the 90's. Its not that goalies were dominant or that the trap became more prevalent, though those may have been factors, but scorers just weren't, y'know, scoring. Now this is obviously not first hand knowledge from me, but this is a point that I've seen brought up before. That's the big question. Do you consider the era or is it strictly numbers? I would think it varies per vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 He is a stat compiler, which counts against him, but he still put up some of the greatest total stats of all-time which gets him my HOF vote despite not having been dominant in any 1 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkirt Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I go by what my eyes told me, and Dave Andreychuk is a cut below Hall of Famer. He's in the Hall of Very Good. Great shot and great hands. Is that enough? I don't think it's quite enough. But it wouldn't be crazy if he got in. He's that borderline. Same with Ciccarelli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyvegas Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Of course he belongs. Look at his numbers. They dont lie. The guy was a fabulous player who never used the flash that gets you elected to all star teams. He used the long stick to keep posession of the puck and was able to deflect anything shot within 5 feet into the net. Had he been on more championship caliber teams throughout his career, the vote would've been 90% in favor. He was a scoring machine who was willing to take a beating every night and still do his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) I have a few problems with Dave Andreychuk's career. Firstly, he was awful in the playoffs. And I think a HOF career has to look at both the regular season and the playoffs. He was on some excellent playoff teams, and some not-so-good ones...but he could never get any of the not-so-good teams past the first round, and he never really helped those good teams get to the finals. In 18 playoff seasons, he arguably had one good year with the 1993 Leafs. Those Sabres teams were never incredible, but they should have won at least one of the 8 playoff series he was in with the team. He came to New Jersey and put up 3 points in 3 playoff seasons. Was one game away from the Stanley Cup Finals with the Avalanche, but didn't really help them out with 5 points in 17 games. He's 194th all-time in points per game in the playoffs. Guys like Joel Otto, Mike Ricci, Shayne Corson, Scott Young and Jamie Langenbrunner should not be ahead of someone like Andreychuk. Another thing that bugs me about Andreychuk's career was that he finished his last 6 years as a - player. He was still scoring a very large amount of PPGs but was pretty bad 5 on 5. Even with a team like the Avalanche in 2000...how do you go -9 in 14 games? Edited August 5, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I prefer dominance to consistency. A guy like Konstantinov who was spectacular before his career got cut short is much more of a hall of famer than a guy like Andreychuk, whose numbers are a product of lasting a very long time. I won't be mad if he gets in, but he doesn't get my vote, not that that counts for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) I'll always feel that Hall-Of-Fames should be reserved for the very best, and not the very good. The only time I really remember thinking of Andreychuk as being dominant was when he had one of his 50+ goal years with Gilmour for the Leafs, and as devilsrule33 points out, his playoff performance was lacking. He's had a wonderful career, and it's always impressive when someone can play for as long as Andreychuk did without embarrassing himself in his later seasons, but for me he falls short. Edited August 5, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Almost 700 goals, all-time PPG goal leader, captain of a SC-winning team? Absolutely a HOF'er. Some may call him a compiler, but Andreychuk put up HOF worthy numbers over those 23 seasons. He might not get in on the first ballott, but he will eventually, and he'll deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyvegas Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 True about his not so great playoff career. If you want, check out another so-so playoff career player who DID make it to the Hall without very good stats. Under baseball: George Herman Ruth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Didn't Ruth have something like a 3-1 record in WS pitching with Boston? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatansDevils Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yes HOF for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestevens Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Not the most clutch guy, I cannot say a player who isn't dominate game in and game out, especially in the playoffs, can make it in. I'll pass on Dave although he one of the greatest regular season performers, I think his playoff time takes away my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Devil Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm firmly on the fence. That's why I say 'No.' 'Cos, if there is any doubt, then there is no doubt. That's a quote from "Ronin", I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I vote yes simply because of this list... Regular season goals 1. Wayne Gretzky, 894 2. Gordie Howe, 801 3. Brett Hull, 741 4. Marcel Dionne, 731 5. Phil Esposito, 717 6. Mike Gartner, 708 7. Mark Messier, 694 8. Steve Yzerman, 692 9. Mario Lemieux, 690 10. Luc Robitaille, 668 11. Brendan Shanahan, 656 12. Jaromir Jagr, 646 13. Dave Andreychuk, 640 14. Joe Sakic, 625 15. Bobby Hull, 610 16. Dino Ciccarelli, 608 17. Jari Kurri, 601 18. Teemu Selanne, 579 19. Mike Bossy, 573 20. Joe Nieuwendyk, 564 Mats Sundin, 564 22. Guy Lafleur, 560 23. Johnny Bucyk, 556 24. Ron Francis, 549 25. Michel Goulet, 548 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) I vote yes simply because of this list... Regular season goals 1. Wayne Gretzky, 894 2. Gordie Howe, 801 3. Brett Hull, 741 4. Marcel Dionne, 731 5. Phil Esposito, 717 6. Mike Gartner, 708 7. Mark Messier, 694 8. Steve Yzerman, 692 9. Mario Lemieux, 690 10. Luc Robitaille, 668 11. Brendan Shanahan, 656 12. Jaromir Jagr, 646 13. Dave Andreychuk, 640 14. Joe Sakic, 625 15. Bobby Hull, 610 16. Dino Ciccarelli, 608 17. Jari Kurri, 601 18. Teemu Selanne, 579 19. Mike Bossy, 573 20. Joe Nieuwendyk, 564 Mats Sundin, 564 22. Guy Lafleur, 560 23. Johnny Bucyk, 556 24. Ron Francis, 549 25. Michel Goulet, 548 Well you can look at it that way, but I doubt the HOF voters would. And I know they aren't because if you look further down that list, you'll find Dino Ciccarelli with 608 goals. And he's been passed by the voters for about 8 years now. Now Ciccarelli scored 32 less goals in 407 less games, and performed much better in the playoffs than Andrechuk. Dino is 13th all-time in goals per game in the playoffs, while Andreychuk is 186th. Pretty interesting that most people here have Andreychuk over Ciccarelli in the HHOF. Edited August 6, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyvegas Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Dino had some major character issues, that's why. There was that incident with the underage girl in the limo among others. Probably didn't sit well with the board (unlike other sports). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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