New Kovy Update ("As the Kovy Turns")

[insanity_gallops]

Someone needs to take down that Kovalchuk Army thing on the NJDevs banner. Clearly it is bad juju.

No cups allowed in the playoffs, I'm good with removing that image during the free agency season.

[NJDevs4978]

publicizing the KHL move could just be a ploy to get the NHL to accept a 14 year contract for fear of losing kovalchuk. i mean, medvedev is kind of hilarious with the way he runs to the media, i can't really figure out why he would do that besides because he's medvedev.

I thought of that too, but that's probably too pie-in-the-sky. When has Kovy given up any real money yet in this process? He wouldn't give up $20 million to go to LA, supposedly his dream destination, it was like pulling teeth to get him to give up around $10 million (probably not even) in this supposed second deal.

Both these sides should just stop pussyfooting around here. Just offer a reasonably flat 12-84 or 13-91 and if Kovy doesn't take that to hell with him. Shoot, like maxpower said if we're gonna have to give up cap space in a new deal then he should give up money. Especially since nobody else in NA is offering even half of what we are.

If we bring up this cap hit any more to appease his wallet, we're gonna have to get rid of THREE players at fifty cents on the dollar just to fit him in, not just two.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Hasan4978

[CarpathianForest]

If we do eventually get something done with Kovy he better be a candidate for Art Ross, Hart, Selke, Norris, Jack Adams, Conn Smythe, Lady Bing, President's and Super Bowl trophies.

[maxpower]

i would appeal to the time value of money. i'd have it be something like 8 8 10.5 10.5 10 10 8 7 6 6 3 2 2. the reason why i don't want to overly front-load is because i'm not sure about the way the possible lockout year would work wrt bonuses and salary and keeping in line with the 50% rule. your contract has him giving up way more money than you think due to inflation, etc.

I'm trying to keep top end as close to the cap hit as humanly possible. those 10.5's are going to get the contract denied.

when the gardening work is done with mine, there would be a 9 or two in there to balance out what we give up as opposed to what he gives up, but they will increase the cap hit instead of deaden it, so that's fine.

and there's also more money on the back end if we're to believe he's playing into his old age, and not running after 10 yers. kind of a "put your money where your mouth is."

if he's still getting 10.5's or 10's or 11's, he's not giving anything up. there's three parties here and they all have to make it work. he has to give something. I think the league is giving a little bit in giving guidelines (which they do not have to do), the Devils are giving cap space up, they've already given up $1M, my proposal would give up $1M and change... now Kovalchuk has to give up money.

it's just annoying that it all becomes "it's Bettman's fault" when Kovalchuk, frankly has played this whole situation like an unaware ass. that "THIS ISN'T FAIR" tweet is brutal and so far disconnected from reality. yeah, people are going bankrupt, into foreclosure, can't find jobs because they're damaged goods or overqualified, older people are going to end up in the streets or as dependants because their retirement income vanished, and it isn't fair that Ilya Kovalchuk can't get $95M that looks like $60M, or $85M that looks like $70M. my heart bleeds

[newarkdev01]

I feel as if I spend my summer with this over my head. I can handle having and not having Kovy, I just hate thinking we do, thinking we don't and the on and on and on

In a sick way though, I am probably more psyched about the hockey season and just seeing cryby getting crushed during a game. I would love that more than anything at this stage, just watching the players I can't stand getting pounded a bit.

[NJDevs4978]

Who tweeted 'This isn't fair'? Kovy, Grossman? No it isn't but they have to be fair to the Devils too or they can't cry fair.

[Amberite]

publicizing the KHL move could just be a ploy to get the NHL to accept a 14 year contract for fear of losing kovalchuk. i mean, medvedev is kind of hilarious with the way he runs to the media, i can't really figure out why he would do that besides because he's medvedev.

I actually have a feeling that the NHL wouldn't care if Kovalchuk signed in Russia. It would send a powerful message - "we care more about our rules than giving in to the players." And seeing as how the NHL is on a gift-wrapped power trip compliments of one Mr. Richard Bloch, I can see the NHL doing that.

[CarpathianForest]

Why is every time I think of the Kovy situation I think of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer found the Merv Griffin set and moved it into his apartment. When George asked Kramer how he got the set into his apartment, Kramer replies along the lines that he just hooked it in. C'Mon, just hook it in finally.

[maxpower]

Who tweeted 'This isn't fair'? Kovy, Grossman? No it isn't but they have to be fair to the Devils too or they can't cry fair.

the Russian reporter. I'm sure he got the news from the Kovalchuk camp and that was a proxy whine.

[gogonjdevil]

Is anybody else worried that come lockout time, the KHL will be the new NHL?

[Amberite]

Is anybody else worried that come lockout time, the KHL will be the new NHL?

A few players may defect for good, but most will sign 1 year contracts and come back as soon as the work stoppage is over. Aside from handing out money left and right, the KHL has very little appeal.

[maxpower]

in order to have a work stoppage, you actually have to have a PA. there really isn't one at the moment. no one to herd the cats.

[msweet]

If we do eventually get something done with Kovy he better be a candidate for Art Ross, Hart, Selke, Norris, Jack Adams, Conn Smythe, Lady Bing, President's and Super Bowl trophies.

I don't want him to win the Lady Bing

[Triumph]

I'm trying to keep top end as close to the cap hit as humanly possible. those 10.5's are going to get the contract denied. when the gardening work is done with mine, there would be a 9 or two in there to balance out what we give up as opposed to what he gives up, but they will increase the cap hit instead of deaden it, so that's fine.

there's absolutely no reason why those years should get the contract rejected. there's no investigation into the lecavalier deal.

and there's also more money on the back end if we're to believe he's playing into his old age, and not running after 10 yers. kind of a "put your money where your mouth is."

we still want him to run at that age, so keeping that part as low as possible isn't a bad thing. given that, again, the lecavalier deal is the model, it takes him right up to his 40th birthday, and has a 1.5 million and 1 million bit on the end, i don't see why this would get rejected.

if he's still getting 10.5's or 10's or 11's, he's not giving anything up. there's three parties here and they all have to make it work. he has to give something. I think the league is giving a little bit in giving guidelines (which they do not have to do), the Devils are giving cap space up, they've already given up $1M, my proposal would give up $1M and change... now Kovalchuk has to give up money.

it's just annoying that it all becomes "it's Bettman's fault" when Kovalchuk, frankly has played this whole situation like an unaware ass. that "THIS ISN'T FAIR" tweet is brutal and so far disconnected from reality. yeah, people are going bankrupt, into foreclosure, can't find jobs because they're damaged goods or overqualified, older people are going to end up in the streets or as dependants because their retirement income vanished, and it isn't fair that Ilya Kovalchuk can't get $95M that looks like $60M, or $85M that looks like $70M. my heart bleeds

athlete is unaware ass - film at 11. the devils gave him a way to have his cake and eat it too, and it didn't work out.

I actually have a feeling that the NHL wouldn't care if Kovalchuk signed in Russia. It would send a powerful message - "we care more about our rules than giving in to the players." And seeing as how the NHL is on a gift-wrapped power trip compliments of one Mr. Richard Bloch, I can see the NHL doing that.

i doubt that. while the nhl isn't going to be crying if kovalchuk left, he's still one of the most interesting players in the sport. the nhl isn't going to look at themselves as being responsible, but they won't be happy about it.

Is anybody else worried that come lockout time, the KHL will be the new NHL?

no. most of the league struggles to pay people, and the league is in russia.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Triumph

[Neb00rs]

yeah, if there was a way to do it where he got $85-87M in ten years. of course he has fault in this. if he would sign a normal deal, this would have been over long ago, instead it's the Devils bending over backwards and giving and giving and getting very little in return. they are going to be run up to the outside limit in cap of what they want to spend, but Kovalchuk is still going to get most of the money he wants.

so, in the back years of the contract, if he washes out, or god forbid, suffers some kind of injury, they are going to have a gigantic cap hit being dragged around. that's why, if it's going to be for that kind of cap hit (which is damaging), he should get less years and less money.

once they have nowhere to go capwise, they should be signing him to a normal contract... they don't gain anything by giving him that length.

Oh cmon. If Kovy had a 12 year/90 deal he wouldn't care if he got 80 or 87 in the first 10 years. The delay is simply Lou trying to keep the cap hit low.

Recent twitter from CraigCustance :

Alexander Medvedev said he just got a call from Ilya Kovalchuk's agent and remains hopeful that the KHL is still an option for Ilya.

Sweeet so now here we go, either lose Kovy to the KHL or used as leverage to make Lou hit the panic button ( or should I say make JV panic and force Lou to sign Kovy)

Warning to Bettman?

[NJDevs4978]

I actually have a feeling that the NHL wouldn't care if Kovalchuk signed in Russia. It would send a powerful message - "we care more about our rules than giving in to the players." And seeing as how the NHL is on a gift-wrapped power trip compliments of one Mr. Richard Bloch, I can see the NHL doing that.

And how fast would they be bending the rules the other way if it was Crosby or Ovechkin threatening to go to Russia? This league is run by hypocrites and liars but they can get away with their BS because the NHLPA makes the Rangers look like a model organization.

[maxpower]

I think he damn well sure cares whether he got $87M or $80M in the first 10 years. that's the whole problem here. having to give him his money vs. maintaining the cap position we need to keep, as we are not in an ideal position to sign the player.

and then having to balance that out vs. the nebulous authority over contract stipulations the league now has.

that these deals are rumored to be at/north of 7, and the league is sending them back with advice, makes me think two parties are doing their part and one isn't. his response is getting the media rumors floating.

[pattyelias]

Why is every time I think of the Kovy situation I think of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer found the Merv Griffin set and moved it into his apartment. When George asked Kramer how he got the set into his apartment, Kramer replies along the lines that he just hooked it in. C'Mon, just hook it in finally.

Every time I think of the Kovy situation I think of Albert Fish inserting needles in his groin.

[Amberite]

And how fast would they be bending the rules the other way if it was Crosby or Ovechkin threatening to go to Russia? This league is run by hypocrites and liars but they can get away with their BS because the NHLPA makes the Rangers look like a model organization.

Yep, in fact Chesnokov agrees with you (or maybe you ARE Chesnokov? Hmm):

dchesnokov: Would Daly say the same if, say, Crosby or Ovechkin was involved? Just wondering.

[Neb00rs]

I think he damn well sure cares whether he got $87M or $80M in the first 10 years. that's the whole problem here. having to give him his money vs. maintaining the cap position we need to keep, as we are not in an ideal position to sign the player.

and then having to balance that out vs. the nebulous authority over contract stipulations the league now has.

that these deals are rumored to be at/north of 7, and the league is sending them back with advice, makes me think two parties are doing their part and one isn't. his response is getting the media rumors floating.

I think he cares whether he gets 90 or 80 in the first 12 years of a 17 year contract. But not 80 or 87 in the first 10 of a 12 year contract. That's only a 2 year difference in receiving the money and no matter what he makes millions in the last 2 years. If Kovy gets the original contract he is stuck making minimum money for the the last 5 years of the contract. He makes like a total of 2.7 mill in those years and if he retires he doesn't get that money. With a shorter contract he could become an FA at 37 or 38 and sign one year 1 million dollar deals. This is Lou being hesitant to get himself stuck with a cap hit that will come back to haunt him. Every number is being crunched with Parise in mind.

Edited August 25, 2010 by ben00rs

[sundstrom]

off the record, I bet you his wishes he signed with ATL. it's never been about winning. you don't sign 900 year contracts if you care about winning, because you lose the ability to hold the organization responsible.

so.... if it's not about the money, why can't he sign an 8/$56-60 and end this charade right now?

you can't say it isn't about winning for him - it's clearly important - just as $ is. he wants his cake and to eat it too. i'm fine with that in this case, if he can get it.

yeah, if there was a way to do it where he got $85-87M in ten years. of course he has fault in this. if he would sign a normal deal, this would have been over long ago, instead it's the Devils bending over backwards and giving and giving and getting very little in return. they are going to be run up to the outside limit in cap of what they want to spend, but Kovalchuk is still going to get most of the money he wants.

so, in the back years of the contract, if he washes out, or god forbid, suffers some kind of injury, they are going to have a gigantic cap hit being dragged around. that's why, if it's going to be for that kind of cap hit (which is damaging), he should get less years and less money.

once they have nowhere to go capwise, they should be signing him to a normal contract... they don't gain anything by giving him that length.

injury cap hit can be replaced. the devils ARE trying to get him the $80MM in 10 years he deserves while keeping their cap hit as low as possible.

Someone needs to take down that Kovalchuk Army thing on the NJDevs banner. Clearly it is bad juju.

I WANT TO CAPITALIZE MY APPROVAL OF THIS.

I thought it was cute when he was signed but should revert back to having marty, elias, and parise. if, when he's official, you want to add him in the background as the others, that's fine. it's nitpicking and ticky-tack for what is my home on the internet but still - it's enough.

[maxpower]

injury cap hit can be replaced. the devils ARE trying to get him the $80MM in 10 years he deserves while keeping their cap hit as low as possible.

I think if he was willing to take something in the ballpark of 10/$80M, we'd be home already. we'll never know about these deals, but we know why the first one was knocked down and these were too. would not be surprised if there's similiarities.

the Devils are bidding against the Devils and he's still looking for as big a check as humanly possible.

again, what's wrong with a 10/$77M deal with a larger backend?

I think (again, these are "I think's", but you guys have done a better job not spazzing out then some of the hf people did), that he's getting cut alot of slack because alot of people have a hard-on for him. he could end this mess any time he wants. the Devils pretty much have their position set in stone now with the series of denials

[insanity_gallops]

I WANT TO CAPITALIZE MY APPROVAL OF THIS.

I thought it was cute when he was signed but should revert back to having marty, elias, and parise. if, when he's official, you want to add him in the background as the others, that's fine. it's nitpicking and ticky-tack for what is my home on the internet but still - it's enough.

I'm gonna go ahead and quote this idea again. I'll even give it a +2. And definitely agree with adding Kovy in as a player to the others... I don't like that the Kovalchuk Army logo is covering up Marty, the Prudential Center, and the Cups. Not very "This Is Team," though I completely understand why it was initially and hastily added.

[iamtheprodigy]

I agree with changing the banner. At least until this is resolved. If not for bad juju, just because looking at it makes me involuntarily roll my eyes.

[Triumph]

I think if he was willing to take something in the ballpark of 10/$80M, we'd be home already. we'll never know about these deals, but we know why the first one was knocked down and these were too. would not be surprised if there's similiarities.

the Devils are bidding against the Devils and he's still looking for as big a check as humanly possible.

again, what's wrong with a 10/$77M deal with a larger backend?

I think (again, these are "I think's", but you guys have done a better job not spazzing out then some of the hf people did), that he's getting cut alot of slack because alot of people have a hard-on for him. he could end this mess any time he wants. the Devils pretty much have their position set in stone now with the series of denials

i assume by 10/80 and 10/77 you are referring to longer contracts, because a 10 year deal at that cap hit would be godawful. the first contract paid out much more money in 12 years. you are asking kovalchuk to give up like $15 million. it's easy to see why he would balk at that.

for every crosby and ovechkin to erroneously compare this deal to, there's an eric staal or vincent lecavalier.

and yeah i've been lurking HFboards during this mess and man are there a lot of single digit IQs over there.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Triumph