NewarkDevil5 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 My personal theory is that Bettman has allowed clutching and grabbing to flourish in the NHL which reduced scoring. There have been mandates from the NHL office at the start of years to pay lipservice to stopping obstruction but they've always died down by Thanksgiving and were never heard from again. If the league came down very very hard on obstruction they'd have a few ugly games where every other minute would have a penalty but eventually the players would figure it out. Instead what we have is WWE on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Half-alligator, half-something else: Can you please explain this "obscenely high tax" thing to me? The reason Canadian teams are disappearing is because of (1)not enough population to keep team afloat - same as Hartford, and (2)difference in the dollar. Far more problematic than tax rates is the fact that Canada puts its tax dollars towards national health care while the USA puts its tax dollars towards arenas: http://www.leagueoffans.org/nhlarenas1990.html I think that we Canadians have the priorities straight, even though it endangers our NHL teams, who have to come up with their own money for arenas. ------------ BTW - this is not meant to be a "Canada vs US", "socialism vs capitalism", or any other philiosophical debate; I like to keep my politics and my sports seperate. My whole point is that there are a myriad of factors plagueing Canadian teams, many of which Bettman has no control over. However, as much as I dislike the man, he is the only person who can save the Canadian teams by reducing player salaries. Given that 85% of NHL team expenditures are in player salaries, we can fiddle with taxes and subsidies till the cows come home, unless Gary finds a way to serious reduce salaries, the NHL will be like the NBA and baseball - only one Canadian team left (Expos don't count - they are moving as soon as they find a decent ball park in the US). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueNJ97 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Don, it seriously sucks when your revenue is in Canadian Dollars and you have to pay salaries in American Dollars and the Canadian Dollar is worth, what, 2/3 of the American Dollar??? The math just doesn't work. It never will, until the exchange rate changes, salaries go down, or (yeah, right) players on Canadian teams agree to be paid in Canadian Dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 (edited) The league is torn between opening things up and keeping them as they are.. it could not in the last 2 years desire to open up scoring a great deal.. I haven't seen a game this year, so I can't comment, but the clutching and grabbing seemed at a relative minimum during the regular season last year.. during the playoffs it always goes up, but that is natural; they know refs won't pull that one clutch is a penalty crap in the playoffs. The conspiracy theory is crap.. although now that the salary structure is so based on what other players receive, a large increase in scoring would create arbitrational chaos. Edited October 29, 2003 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 This group is getting weirder and weirder by the day! But I'm glad to see everyone happy after a game (for the most part, at least!) ---------------------------------------- After a disappointing loss against the Bruins (5-2), the Devils retaliate to improve their away record with a shutout against the New York Islanders, who stand at 2nd place in the Atlantic Division. The Devils had some time to think about the previous night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 (edited) Actually, thanks to your president being an idiot (oops, what was that about keeping sports and politics seperate? I know it's not your fault; it's not like you actually elected him (-: ), our dollar is now up to 3/4 of an American dollar. Which is killing a lot of our businesses. We could make a widget for $1 Canadian, sell it in the US for $1 American and convert that to $1.45 and we've made a tidy profit. Now that the dollar is up, when we convert we only get $1.30. So profits are down. But it actually helped me. I bought a LOT of stuff when I was down Jersey way for the opener. (-: Devils gloves, 2 Devils sweaters, Devils polo shirt... (-: Which was actually Bettman's argument when trying to convince our politicians to subsidize the NHL teams. The Canadian goverment WANTS, and actively WORKS FOR, a Canadian dollar to be around 70% of the American dollar, because it helps our businesses. Bettman was saying that if the government aides in keeping the dollar around the 70 cent mark, shouldn't it help out businesses that are hurt by the policy? The government agreed and were going to give $20M/year to the Canadian teams, but the public here balked saying "We would rather our kids have math text books than give Alfredson more cash." Edited October 29, 2003 by Don.Whiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 the playoffs have become unwatchable, compare game 7 Leafs/Kings to last nights devils game. There was much more speed, skill, flow, excitiment in the Leafs/Kings game, but there was also more at stake. both teams tried to play sound defense, but they tried to score. You'd never know Toronto was coached by Burns if you watched that game. I've been harping about moving the nets back forever, moving them back 2-3 feet, calling obstruction, and continuing to crack back on goalie gear can add 25 -30 goals to each teams total, plus the flow of the game will be better. Only then can those 0-0 games be exciting. remember, last time we had the nets back scoring was still declining, but obstruction was not called, goalie equipment was growing, and teams didn't even think about crashing the net because the stupid crease rule was enforced very strictly. you have the NHL's all time greats complaining about this, yet nothing gets done? In Bettmans world, the remedy would probably be to move the nets out 2 more feet, turn them sideways, and allow 3 points for ever goal. His idea of a solution is creating more problems, the guy never admits he's wrong, that's why the game is such a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Compare possibly the most exciting game of all time to any regular season game? Well, of course you're going to fall short. I've seen that game too, it's one of the greatest games in hockey history. You're not going to match it. 93 was an aberration.. foreign players like Borschevsky and Zhitnik just coming into the league, neither team had a defense to speak of.. it was a fluke. Probably why the Kings lost in the Finals. The GMs agree to the rules, Bettman doesn't just invent them and say "okay". If you want to blame people, blame the general managers who voted for the rules, not Bettman. NHL front offices are still crammed with purists, so you really have no argument from the "they all listen to Bettman angle". The fact is, there is not even close to a unilateral solution to this problem. Every GM has a different idea. Moving the nets back might bring scoring back up .1 goals a game. It's a minor difference and minor concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 owners are the one's who ultimately sign off to the rule changes, and Bettman is the one who probably does the most convincing, and you always have a handful of radical GM's who support dumb rule changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevils_info Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Nice job Kyle! Very good read. I liked the caption for the goal DiPietro allowed. He didn't have a particularly sharp game and it showed. Your paragraphs are getting better. I would use full names more in the beginning. I know you're audience is the Devils and everyone here knows that but if you were writing for a paper, someone might not know who DiPietro is. I might use full names too much in my recaps. There's probably a middle. :-) Well thank you! I never knew someone was paying attention to how I write, let alone reading it at all! But thank you for your advice, and I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 another article on the state of the game http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/Articl...TPSports/Hockey NHL commissioner blasted by Watters for the state of the game By WILLIAM HOUSTON Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - Page S5 Former National Hockey League club executive Bill Watters excoriated the league's commissioner Gary Bettman yesterday, blaming him for the game's diminished quality of play and also the NHL's financial problems. "It's disgusting," Watters, a former assistant general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, said of the decrease in goal scoring and shots on goal in the NHL. "It's too easy to pin one guy with the blame, but there is one solution to all of this mess that hockey is in.'' The solution, Watters said during his Mojo radio show Leafs Lunch, is to sack Bettman, who has been commissioner for almost 11 years. "You say to yourself: 'How did this all change? It wasn't all that bad before,' " Watters said on the show, which is simulcast on the club-owned digital channel Leafs TV. "The one solution to it all is to rewind the clock and tell Gary Bettman to take a hike. . . . "What are you going to put on his tombstone?" Watters continued. "You'd better get him out of here now before you have to record everything he's screwed up.'' According to Watters, mistakes made by the league during Bettman's leadership include moving the nets out from the back boards (players hate it); reducing the size of the neutral zone (no impact), I disagree; using two referees (players hate it); and imposing the instigator rule (players want it eliminated). The changes Bettman should have made, but hasn't, include reinstatement of the tag-up rule, which cuts down on offside whistles, and implementation of no-touch icing(don't agree with that either, but the tag up rule must come back). Watters described Bettman at one point as "a nice man," but slammed him for failing to understand the game and refusing to listen to the players, who want changes made. "Hockey people are not in New York," Watters said. "Let's make that clear. . . . Gary Bettman doesn't think the players are the game.'' Watters also rapped Bettman for the league's agreeing to a six-year extension of the collective labour agreement, which, Watters says, has cost the clubs $1.8-billion (U.S.) in salary increases. It's unusual for a broadcaster aligned as closely to the Leafs as Watters is to assail the league, never mind the commissioner. But John Shannon, the head of broadcasting for the Leafs, said Watters is hired to express his opinion. "He's paid to be an editorialist," Shannon said. "There have been no handcuffs put on guys like Bill. He's made an impact on the market, so maybe you have to listen to him.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) Watters is a self-promoting moron, has been ever since he was on the Leafs leaking rumors to the press. There's a reason why he's not employed by an NHL team in a front office capacity. It's very popular to bash Bettman.. especially considering commissioner is a no-win position.. The players want the instigator rule removed? Which players? I guess since Bill was employed by the Leafs, he only talked to that collection of thugs.. Edited October 30, 2003 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 the skilled players, the one's that put fans in seats and make the teams what they are. Nowadays you get abused and the refs turn a blind eye, but the minute you send out your enforcer to beat up Buchberger or Sean Hill, it's a 17 minute misconduct and a 7 minute powerplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDew Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 the skilled players, the one's that put fans in seats and make the teams what they are. Nowadays you get abused and the refs turn a blind eye, but the minute you send out your enforcer to beat up Buchberger or Sean Hill, it's a 17 minute misconduct and a 7 minute powerplay. 17 min misconduct now 10 min misconduct, 5 for fighting and 2 for roughing well that does add up to 17...how dew you come up with 24 min?? 17 min misconduct and 7 min PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 yeah sorry i brought politics into it. probably a mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge18 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I think the majority of the players would like to see it removed. IT DOES NOTHING except encourage gutless pukes to take cheapshots at teams players. With no way for another team the give it back. The refs certainly wont do anything about it. And the league has taken away the only outlet the playes had for self rule. It IS hurting the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 because you get 5 for fighting and 2 for instigating, sometimes the other guy won't even get a penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeps Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I think the majority of the players would like to see it removed. I saw a Hockey News poll where it was a 29:1 ratio of get rid of the instigator:keep it. Of course it encourages cheapshots. Play one game and you'll understand why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias 2662 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Jester, some fans, writers, players and especially agents believe that Bettman has supported defensive hockey in an attempt to keep goal scoring down. That would lead to lower salaries...in theory. Wow in that case, I wonder how much Bobby a$$holik would be making if the 90's was a high scoring era. Smart one Bettman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Point is Elias, that hasn't worked and now you've got a deteriorated product with high salaries nevertheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 It didn't work because it was never a league strategy to begin with. If you go back 10 years, did you see anyone predicting 9 million dollar a year salaries? I suppose Stevens was given 5 mill per by the Blues in 95, but he was possibly the best defenseman in the game at that point. To say that salaries for the best players would rise 100% in 10 years.. no one foresaw that. Revisionist history to say that the league 'conspired'. I haven't heard this idea until this year. I'll go along with taking out the instigator. I don't understand how the same problem couldn't arise without it though.. some guy cheapshots your best player, then your goon goes after him and gets a 5 minute major, and he gets squat. What then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 The guy he went after would also get 5 minutes, but your goon wouldn't get an extra 10 & 2 for going after him. It depends on how the guy reacts though, if he turtles then your goon just gets 2 for roughing, if he drops the gloves they both get fighting majors and it cancels out. It's been a while so I don't remember how the penalties work, but I think that's how they used to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 because you get 5 for fighting and 2 for instigating, sometimes the other guy won't even get a penalty. You're right about this. I've seen that one called too, where the other team gets a 7:00 Power Play. It's just ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJD Jester Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 the playoffs have become unwatchable, compare game 7 Leafs/Kings to last nights devils game. There was much more speed, skill, flow, excitiment in the Leafs/Kings game, but there was also more at stake. both teams tried to play sound defense, but they tried to score. You'd never know Toronto was coached by Burns if you watched that game. As someone else said, no comparison between that classic and any regular season game. More to the point, however, is the fact that the postseason has been far from unwatchable. The Bruins-Habs series from two years ago, the Leafs-Cryers series last year, even Devs/Sens...all of those series provided the kind of physical play and scoring CHANCES (if not goals) that make hockey great. Outside of Game 7, the Cryers/Leafs series was one of the best I've seen in about a decade. That's why the real issue facing the game isn't offense--it's violence. The league's been neutured by Bettman, the fans are bored, and the players are apathetic. I don't know about you, but I watch hockey for Scott Stevens, not Alexei Dive-alev. <JESTER> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) Hey now... I wouldn't call it "violence." I don't enjoy violence. Fights sort of upset me even. I personally just like to see bodies go gracefully yet unexpectedly flying through the air. Hip checks RULE! Stevens hits are nice - they're gorgeous - I enjoy the whole wind knocked out of you aspect but I confess the heads smashing on the ice sort of worry me But anyhow -- definitely a great part of the game. As is fancy foot work and dazzling stick handling. BUT THE MOST ENTRANCING PART OF THE GAME, hands down - is everything all coming together. When everything flows as smooth as...well, ice. GOD I LOVE THAT! I just love it when it's all neat and tidy and everything makes sense everything's operating at maximum efficiency! just wow... hmmmm, passionate efficiency - YUMMMMMMMMMM! EDIT: TYPOS! Grrrrrrrrrr! Edited October 30, 2003 by Pepperkorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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