Jerrydevil Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I think to say that our Cup hopes are gone if Madden is traded is an exaggeration. I would never say that Madden is worthless because he's a good player, but I think if we have to sacrifice a defensive role player to get more firepower or a solid defenseman, we should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrisjoe Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 when have we ever had offensive threat, probably never, we get our ugly goals from hardwork and play defense, we will score our 2-3 goals and win, this is what we do come playoffs, marty steps it up and allows the offense to play mediocer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Joe, I'm sure you remember 1997 and 1998 when a lack of goal-scoring resulted in the Devils going home early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 when have we ever had offensive threat, probably never, we get our ugly goals from hardwork and play defense, we will score our 2-3 goals and win, this is what we do come playoffs, marty steps it up and allows the offense to play mediocer offensive threats?! see 1999-2000, 2000-2001 fantastic offense. had the 2000-2001 team actually put in total effort, they would not have lost a game that year in the playoffs. that team was ridiculously good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Apparently there is no difference between Selke trophy winners and "defensive role players". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJayDevil Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Gonchar, nah. Oneill, YES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionHockey Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Over on the ESPN boards, a few of the posters are convinced we can get rid of Madden because he's had an awful year...they say he's essentially useless and we have enough 'role players' who can get the 'same job done' (as Madden) like Pando, Marshall, and Stevenson. They then suggested trading Madden for Satan.... Yeah, I laughed my ass off. Madden is much more than a role player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Madden will come back. He's having a tough spot, but he's not a defensive liability and that's what's important. He was a Conn Smythe candidate last summer... him, Nieds, Langenbrunner, Friesen and Brodeur -- all of them. I would be VERY hesitant to deal ANY of these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devildude Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Gonchar, nah.Oneill, YES! Agreed... and if we lose madden, we are done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterDevil Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Madden is part of the core, you don't trade your core. He's a future Captain on this team and hopefully a career-long Devil. You just don't get players like him often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 (edited) Since when do we need a puckrushing defenseman? We have Niedermayer, Rafalski, and Martin. If they can't cut it, no one will. Jerry your deal is okay, although I wouldn't give up Madden for Halpern, but it's for a team in stasis that would need a jolt. That's a deal you make in the offseason. Madden is UFA at the end of this season, so he won't be traded. I'd like to keep Martin and Hale. If at all possible. Giving up one of them, we'd better be getting back a UFA to be and a 3rd round pick/B grade defense prospect too, because they're too good to go for a guy who's only going to play 30 games as a Devil. Edited February 17, 2004 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 It's a bunch of baloney. The Devils have the assets to get good players.Who's getting more and more ice time and power play time at the expense of Rafalski? Paul Martin....which could mean that either Martin or Rafalski is a trade chip. Here's my trade offer: Brian Rafalski, John Madden, Christian Berglund and a first-round pick for Brendan Witt, Jeff Halpern and Robert Lang, with Washington eating half of Lang's salary. I'd do it because it strengthens our blue line with a physical defenseman and it gets us some offense up the middle, while getting back a checking line center in Halpern. All apologies to John Madden, but the team will still kill penalties well without him. Please commence ripping me. Ok... let's look at this deal for a sec. Reason You Would Part With Rafalski: becomes expendable because of Martin's emergence. Check John Madden: You are thinking about the fact Madden becomes a UFA July 1st, which means he could leave the Devils with only a compensatory pick coming back. Check Christian Berglund: He's never going to play ahead of Gionta and Rupp, which leaves no room for him to stay with Devils. Check Now let's look at the players you are getting back: Reason For Acquiring Witt: is a grinding solid defenseman that plays physical and would be a perfect D partner for Martin. Check Jeff Halpern: Is a younger two-way center that could replace Madden in the checking role. Cheap too. Check Robert Lang: Addresses the Devils #1 center dilemma and gives them much needed depth to create more offense. Check Obviously the first round pick would be needed to make this deal. What the Devils' centers would look like: Lang, Gomez, Brylin, Halpern, Rupp Potential lines: Elias-Gomez-Gionta Friesen-Lang-Langenbrunner Pandolfo-Halpern-Stevenson Rasmussen-Brylin-Marshall The Devils can use Rupp as another trade chip or they can keep him and rotate. D pairs: Niedermayer-White Witt-Martin Hale-Brown/Albelin That would be w/o Stevens. If he returned, you could see: Stevens-Martin Niedermayer-White Witt-Hale/Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Here's my trade offer: Brian Rafalski, John Madden, Christian Berglund and a first-round pick for Brendan Witt, Jeff Halpern and Robert Lang, with Washington eating half of Lang's salary. I'd do it because it strengthens our blue line with a physical defenseman and it gets us some offense up the middle, while getting back a checking line center in Halpern.Ok... let's look at this deal for a sec. Christian Berglund: He's never going to play ahead of Gionta and Rupp, which leaves no room for him to stay with Devils. Check Just one teensy thing both of you are forgetting. Berglund just had surgery. We don't know where or on what, because Lou has labeled it "Top Secret". I'm surprised even the fact he had surgery was leaked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Here's my trade offer: Brian Rafalski, John Madden, Christian Berglund and a first-round pick for Brendan Witt, Jeff Halpern and Robert Lang, with Washington eating half of Lang's salary. I'd do it because it strengthens our blue line with a physical defenseman and it gets us some offense up the middle, while getting back a checking line center in Halpern. Ok... let's look at this deal for a sec. Christian Berglund: He's never going to play ahead of Gionta and Rupp, which leaves no room for him to stay with Devils. Check Just one teensy thing both of you are forgetting. Berglund just had surgery. We don't know where or on what, because Lou has labeled it "Top Secret". I'm surprised even the fact he had surgery was leaked out. Injured or not, he can still be traded, can't he? Didn't Lou trade Arnott while he was injured? I mean it wasn't surgery, but still...he wasn't able to immediately help his new team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Rafalski and Martin are NOT expendable. Not as long as Mr. Niedermayer's UFA status is still looming and as long as he's still represented by Meehan as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Rafalski and Martin are NOT expendable. Not as long as Mr. Niedermayer's UFA status is still looming and as long as he's still represented by Meehan as well. I forgot about this Niedermayer UFA/RFA stuff. I wonder if Lou qualifies? I'm betting that's one of the few qualifiers you will see in the off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Rafalski and Martin are NOT expendable. Not as long as Mr. Niedermayer's UFA status is still looming and as long as he's still represented by Meehan as well. Yeah but Scott would only be an RFA according to the current rules. Hopefully, you don't get screwed over there. I know why you're concerned about Meehan. But I think the Devils will sign Nieds longterm and give him his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 But I think the Devils will sign Nieds longterm and give him his money. If Stevens retires, that'll make signing him a whole lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekes Head Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 But I think the Devils will sign Nieds longterm and give him his money. If Stevens retires, that'll make signing him a whole lot easier. You'd think that.......but....it's Lou..... J/K I'd give him more credit than that, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 But I think the Devils will sign Nieds longterm and give him his money. If Stevens retires, that'll make signing him a whole lot easier. You'd think that.......but....it's Lou..... J/K I'd give him more credit than that, Heh, no doubt Lou will try and get his monies worth, but at least he'll have flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i don't think it'll be a money issue. lou will find the $$ for neids. it's going to come down to whether he wants to stay or go somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I'm not worried about Niedermayer leaving. Just a hunch. As for the expendability of Rafalski, if we're getting back a defenseman like Brendan Witt and/or some offense up front, I think he's expendable. I like the guy. But if you're going to make changes, hopefully for the better, sometimes a regular has to go. Triumph may be right: maybe you don't trade one or two regulars in the middle of the season, that you do that kind of trade in the off-season. I didn't know Madden was a free agent after this year. That kind of changes his value. Whiting, you're right: there's difference between a defensive role player and a Selke winner. A Selke winner is generally a more well-rounded player, and that ain't Madden in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDew Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I havent had the chance to read up on this because to see more info i need to be a registered member of ESPN insider, i only saw the headline which was"Rumor: devils persuing Gonchar, O'neil" this would be the best thing that could happen a offensive defenseman who is a pretty good d man as well Gee I just saw this as an eh or nay segment on CN8...go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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