Albany Devils Reportedly Moving to Binghamton

[CommonDreads]

Binghamton in the past hasn't had any desire to brand an identity of their own as they've always just adopted their NHL affiliates identity, such as the Binghamton Whalers, Rangers, and Senators, so I imagine they'll be the Binghamton Devils. Not sure though how to incorporate our Devil horns and tail into a B though, even spent some time playing around with it and most of the solutions I found made it looking like an R instead of a B. Wouldn't be surprised if they did something like what they did with Lowell by incorporating a cartoon Devil of some sorts.

[DevsMan84]

Putting the A-Devils into Trenton or AC is a quick and certain doom for them.  No way will the fans embrace them in solidly Flyers country and will be forcing another square peg into a round hole.

Only way the AHL Devils would work in NJ with current facilities is for them to play at the Rock like the Barracudas currently do in San Jose.

I would think an arena in the NB area might work, but that arena would never be built.

[CHIP72]

Binghamton in the past hasn't had any desire to brand an identity of their own as they've always just adopted their NHL affiliates identity, such as the Binghamton Whalers, Rangers, and Senators, so I imagine they'll be the Binghamton Devils. Not sure though how to incorporate our Devil horns and tail into a B though, even spent some time playing around with it and most of the solutions I found made it looking like an R instead of a B. Wouldn't be surprised if they did something like what they did with Lowell by incorporating a cartoon Devil of some sorts.

Binghamton did have the Broome Dusters many years ago (Binghamton is in Broome County), and according to a Binghamton-based Rangers fan on HFBoards, the Rangers are the most popular NHL team in Binghamton and a Devils-named affiliate may turn off a decent portion of the fan base. A neutral name may work better. My personal opinion is a neutral name with Devils colors would be a good compromise.

If the Binghamton team is called the Devils, for the logo I think you have the horns at the top left corner of the B, and extend the tail below the bottom left corner of the B.


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[CommonDreads]

4 minutes ago, CHIP72 said:

 

Binghamton did have the Broome Dusters many years ago (Binghamton is in Broome County), and according to a Binghamton-based Rangers fan on HFBoards, the Rangers are the most popular NHL team in Binghamton and a Devils-named affiliate may turn off a decent portion of the fan base. A neutral name may work better. My personal opinion is a neutral name with Devils colors would be a good compromise.

If the Binghamton team is called the Devils, for the logo I think you have the horns at the top left corner of the B, and extend the tail below the bottom left corner of the B.


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I think I'd prefer them to select their own branding, I miss the days when we have the River Rats as our affiliates instead of just a lesser version of the Devils. Unfortunately, Dusters shouldn't be in the running for a name because nowadays Duster is another adjective for a Bender in hockey 

Also that's what I tried when I played around with a B shaped Devils logo, couldn't stop seeing an R instead of a B

[mfitz804]

16 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Putting the A-Devils into Trenton or AC is a quick and certain doom for them.  No way will the fans embrace them in solidly Flyers country and will be forcing another square peg into a round hole.

Only way the AHL Devils would work in NJ with current facilities is for them to play at the Rock like the Barracudas currently do in San Jose.

I would think an arena in the NB area might work, but that arena would never be built.

This. Those are horrible locations for a Devils team. the Izod Center would have been perfect, but they're closed now. 

1 minute ago, CommonDreads said:

I think I'd prefer them to select their own branding, I miss the days when we have the River Rats as our affiliates instead of just a lesser version of the Devils. Unfortunately, Dusters shouldn't be in the running for a name because nowadays Duster is another adjective for a Bender in hockey 

Also that's what I tried when I played around with a B shaped Devils logo, couldn't stop seeing an R instead of a B

 

That's because that's an R! Get rid of that little gap and you have a B, and likely the exact logo. 

 

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

I think I'd prefer them to select their own branding, I miss the days when we have the River Rats as our affiliates instead of just a lesser version of the Devils. Unfortunately, Dusters shouldn't be in the running for a name because nowadays Duster is another adjective for a Bender in hockey 

Also that's what I tried when I played around with a B shaped Devils logo, couldn't stop seeing an R instead of a B

Why not have the tail come out of the left side instead of the right?

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

Why not have the tail come out of the left side instead of the right?

Yeah, or even make it longer and have it wrap around to the other side.

Or a huge cartoon Devil face like our eventual 3rd jersey will have!!

Edited January 26, 2017 by mfitz804

[thecoffeecake]

44 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Putting the A-Devils into Trenton or AC is a quick and certain doom for them.  No way will the fans embrace them in solidly Flyers country and will be forcing another square peg into a round hole.

Only way the AHL Devils would work in NJ with current facilities is for them to play at the Rock like the Barracudas currently do in San Jose.

I would think an arena in the NB area might work, but that arena would never be built.

Yea, it's a good thing Binghampton is firmly in Devils territory. Crisis averted! I don't want to repeat myself so early in a thread, so I'll just leave this here for your convenience.

1 hour ago, thecoffeecake said:

I hope they're not scared away by the fact AC and Trenton are, at least somewhat, in Flyers territory. I know a lot of people argued the old Trenton Devils didn't do well because there were too many Flyers fans who outright wouldn't support them in the area. The Lakewood BlueClaws constantly break attendance records as a Phillies affiliate in a Yankees/Mets dominated area.

Trenton is not "solidly" in Flyers country, first of all. It's about split. Even if that was the case, Trenton is so easily accessible for most Devils fans, and I imagine most of us would make the trip a few times a year at least if that's where they were to see the American team.

Atlantic City, while in Flyers country more thoroughly than Trenton, still has plenty of Devils fans in the area. I remember on that map vote they had a couple years ago, a few towns down in Atlantic County were majority Devils (but to be fair, that map was sh!t, but the point stands that it's not 100% Flyers fans down there). Either way, Atlantic City gets about 30 million visitors a year (last I checked; very likely down, even if slightly), and where do you think they come from? People from all over the state visit AC, and there would be no shortage of Devils fans to go..

Even if you were right, and there are no Devils fans that live in or visit AC or Trenton ever, a simple rebrand is all it would take to make the team work. Again, if the BlueClaws can do it as a Phillies affiliate in northern Ocean County, a Devils affiliate can do it in South Jersey.

[DevsMan84]

11 minutes ago, thecoffeecake said:

Yea, it's a good thing Binghampton is firmly in Devils territory. Crisis averted! I don't want to repeat myself so early in a thread, so I'll just leave this here for your convenience.

Trenton is not "solidly" in Flyers country, first of all. It's about split. Even if that was the case, Trenton is so easily accessible for most Devils fans, and I imagine most of us would make the trip a few times a year at least if that's where they were to see the American team.

Atlantic City, while in Flyers country more thoroughly than Trenton, still has plenty of Devils fans in the area. I remember on that map vote they had a couple years ago, a few towns down in Atlantic County were majority Devils (but to be fair, that map was sh!t, but the point stands that it's not 100% Flyers fans down there). Either way, Atlantic City gets about 30 million visitors a year (last I checked; very likely down, even if slightly), and where do you think they come from? People from all over the state visit AC, and there would be no shortage of Devils fans to go..

Even if you were right, and there are no Devils fans that live in or visit AC or Trenton ever, a simple rebrand is all it would take to make the team work. Again, if the BlueClaws can do it as a Phillies affiliate in northern Ocean County, a Devils affiliate can do it in South Jersey.

The bolded is ridiculous and you know it.  The Titans were a successful both on and off the ice for 6-8 years and then when JVB bought them, re-branded them the Devils, the team attendance-wise went down the crapper.  Team never recovered and ask any of their former STH why they didn't exactly embrace the newly-minted Devils team down there.  It's Flyers country no matter how much you push your one state nonsense.

AC also had an ECHL team playing at Boardwalk Hall as well, but they folded after a few seasons due to poor attendance as well and that was without any connection to the Devils.  You think a Devils-branded team would do any better down there?  The sprinkling of Devils fans south of Monmouth County that you seem to always overestimate will not be enough to sustain them.  Plus add to the fact that AC is a dying town that is experiencing dropping visitors, closing of casinos and have a history of struggling to pivot their economy away from gambling with the increased competition from other (and generally nicer) establishments in NY, CT and PA.

Quick note: that 30 million visitor number is also flawed and grossly inflated:

" The term “visitor trips” used by the Levenson Institute reflects overall visitation to Atlantic City, not the number of individual tourists. The tourism market is made up of a core of repeat visitors estimated at somewhere between 4 million and 5 million, Posner said. "

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/business/atlantic-city-visitors-declined-for-eighth-straight-year-in/article_e173c366-a1ae-11e3-9d1f-001a4bcf887a.html

[thecoffeecake]

27 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

The bolded is ridiculous and you know it.  The Titans were a successful both on and off the ice for 6-8 years and then when JVB bought them, re-branded them the Devils, the team attendance-wise went down the crapper.  Team never recovered and ask any of their former STH why they didn't exactly embrace the newly-minted Devils team down there.  It's Flyers country no matter how much you push your one state nonsense.

AC also had an ECHL team playing at Boardwalk Hall as well, but they folded after a few seasons due to poor attendance as well and that was without any connection to the Devils.  You think a Devils-branded team would do any better down there?  The sprinkling of Devils fans south of Monmouth County that you seem to always overestimate will not be enough to sustain them.  Plus add to the fact that AC is a dying town that is experiencing dropping visitors, closing of casinos and have a history of struggling to pivot their economy away from gambling with the increased competition from other (and generally nicer) establishments in NY, CT and PA.

Quick note: that 30 million visitor number is also flawed and grossly inflated:

" The term “visitor trips” used by the Levenson Institute reflects overall visitation to Atlantic City, not the number of individual tourists. The tourism market is made up of a core of repeat visitors estimated at somewhere between 4 million and 5 million, Posner said. "

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/business/atlantic-city-visitors-declined-for-eighth-straight-year-in/article_e173c366-a1ae-11e3-9d1f-001a4bcf887a.html

Nope, it's not. There are tons of Devils fans in the Trenton area, that's not a matter of opinion or speculation.

Yea, you definitely alienate a lot of fans in the Trenton area with the Devils name. There are still a lot of Flyers fans on the Jersey side, and you have a ton of Pennsylvania that's Trenton adjacent. Like I said, and as you just illustrated, a re-brand solves that problem.

The Boardwalk Bullies did not fold, they were sold and moved to Stockton, CA. They averaged about 3,000 fans while they were there, which is about what both Albany and Binghampton have done with higher level franchises.

Yup, Atlantic City is experiencing a decline. It doesn't take a community planner to understand casino gambling wasn't a sustainable remedy to AC's economic problems that started in the middle of the 20th century. AC built itself on a certain style of vacationing that lost favor with most after World War II due to advancements in plane travel, modernized laboring, advents of affordable automobiles and air conditioning. It was also affected by the same things that killed economies in other Rust Belt cities. Atlantic County is still bigger than Broome County, and 4 to 5 million visitors isn't a negligible amount. How many people visit Binghampton every year?

The problems you have with Trenton and AC (which apparently is only that Flyers fans live near them) is a much bigger problem in Binghampton. And again, re-brand, and your concerns go out the window. Maybe Binghampton made more fiscal sense right now (but I honestly don't know), but in the long-term, it's a win-win for the organization and hockey in the state for the AHL franchise to be within state lines.

I was born and raised south of Monmouth County, I spend a lot of my time south of Monmouth County, I've worked all over South and Central Jersey and probably know it a lot better than you do. I'm going to go ahead and take my word for what things are like down there.

[CHIP72]

Why not have the tail come out of the left side instead of the right?

That was my thought as well.


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[Satans Hockey]

As someone who went to as many games as possible before the Devils even bought them Trenton was having issues with attendance before the Devils came in and renamed them. I went to so many of their games over the years as the Titans and the attendance wasn't even very good during the lockout in 04-05 when they won the Kelly Cup. That being said if the Devils did decide to put them there and come up with a name with an identity to the area I still believe it would work. It probably won't happen but I'm not sure how many games I would go  to any more anyway so overall I really don't care. I honestly can't even remember the last time I went to an AHL game that was for the Devils. 

I feel bad for the Albany fans especially cause it doesn't look like there is going to be another team coming in. I have a family friend whose young nephew absolutely loves the Albany and NJ Devils and is a season ticket holder for Albany because his parents get him it as a gift every year. I always get him some NJ Devils stuff like the bobbleheads and other items and he's going to be devastated. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Satans Hockey

[vadvlfan]

I thought the AHL games at the boardwalk in AC was a litmus test for a possible future move when Lou was here?  

I think A devils made a strong effort in the community to get more interest, and they're a good team. I'd understand moreso if they were horrible. Albany might get an echl team. I thought the Norfolk Admiral (from AHL to ECHL) would go into the crapper. They had almost 7K at a game 2 weeks ago.

Players supplied by Oilers. 

[Chuck the Duck]

I know it's a different sport, and the Yankees reach is much greater than the Devils, but the Trenton Thunder (Yankees AA team) has a great stadium and have done well attendance wise for a long time now.  I have no idea what the demographics are for sport allegiances in the area.  I just don't know if the area has the financial wherewithal (corporate sponsorships, ticket prices, etc.) to support an AHL franchise.  And at the end of the day, that is the name of the game with these new owners.  Their new deal in Binghamton seems to be a net positive for the bottom line, and is bolstered by an ownership group there whose equivalent is unlikely to exist in Trenton.

[Derek21]

It is kinda sad that this is happening. I have always looked at Albany as the Devils AHL affiliate. Ever since they were the River Rats, they were that team who had a following from Albany locals with other diehards making the trip because it wasn't that bad travel wise. I went from Connecticut once and it was a fun ride. Lot different seeing all the background of mother nature. For me, it was scenic. I liked the arena too. When they moved the first time, I thought that sucked. Then they returned as the Albany Devils and I thought that was cool. I guess it just is part of business these days. If you're not generating enough revenue from fans showing up, it's bound to happen. Hartford doesn't draw too good either. But they did renew as Rowdy mentioned. 

I have been to both places and I liked both. Especially the old Mall. Yeah. Plus you have your lower bowl and upper bowl and there's not a bad seat in Hartford. The goal horn is pretty cool too. Has that old Whale sound. In a lot of ways, it's too bad when minor league affiliates don't survive. There's that identity they develop with fans. I don't cover the Staten Island Yankees anymore. But if they left, I'd be devastated. I am glad they didn't change the name. That would've been silly. 

[RowdyFan42]

On 1/26/2017 at 0:15 AM, Triumph said:

Glad to see you around still, even if it's for this disappointing news.  

On 1/26/2017 at 1:27 AM, Weekes Head said:

It's great to hear from you! Always nice to see the OG posters poke their heads in every now and then.

Good to see you guys too.  Nice to still see so many familiar faces around here.

[DevsMan84]

Move to Binghamton for next year is official.  Devils have 5-year agreement with arena.

[BostonNala370]

Why not bring them to Newark because it would cost the Devils fans in the seats. Clear the schedules and bring the Isles to Newark. Down the road combine both team for one competitive team, maybe!

[jagknife]

2 hours ago, BostonNala370 said:

Why not bring them to Newark because it would cost the Devils fans in the seats. Clear the schedules and bring the Isles to Newark. Down the road combine both team for one competitive team, maybe!

ummmm... what?

[RowdyFan42]

Looks like this move has been in the works since September, shortly after the Senators announced they were leaving Binghamton.

http://blog.timesunion.com/hockey/what-you-may-not-have-known-about-the-albany-devils-move/22112/

[AEWHistory]

On 1/25/2017 at 11:34 PM, Satans Hockey said:

Trenton could and would work if done properly, I'm still hoping this happens eventually. 

I really wish they would bring a team back here.  I have felt that the Devils (well, really Lou) really screwed up the situation here in Trenton and putting an AHL team here would be a big draw.  I doubt it will happen, but this is a perfect location.  Not to mention this is an area the Devils really need to stake a permanent claim to.

[AEWHistory]

On 1/27/2017 at 1:45 AM, Satans Hockey said:

As someone who went to as many games as possible before the Devils even bought them Trenton was having issues with attendance before the Devils came in and renamed them. I went to so many of their games over the years as the Titans and the attendance wasn't even very good during the lockout in 04-05 when they won the Kelly Cup. That being said if the Devils did decide to put them there and come up with a name with an identity to the area I still believe it would work. It probably won't happen but I'm not sure how many games I would go  to any more anyway so overall I really don't care. I honestly can't even remember the last time I went to an AHL game that was for the Devils. 

I feel bad for the Albany fans especially cause it doesn't look like there is going to be another team coming in. I have a family friend whose young nephew absolutely loves the Albany and NJ Devils and is a season ticket holder for Albany because his parents get him it as a gift every year. I always get him some NJ Devils stuff like the bobbleheads and other items and he's going to be devastated. 

That's interesting as I have never heard anyone say that before.  Are you sure you aren't thinking of the post Devils Titans?  That was a mess and, yes, the attendance wasn't good (although I think it may have been slightly better than under the Devils).  Admittedly there was a drop off from the very first couple years, but attendance held above 5k per game for years (even during the championship run).  In a stadium that could only fit 6.5k that is fine average.  If memory serves, the Titans were always among the ECHL leaders for attendance in those years.  It was the last couple years as the first incarnation of the Titans where things started to drop off, but then the Devils really mucked things up and they never recovered (see link below).  But there was clearly a market here.  After all, this was an ECHL team.  In Trenton you can drive an hour and see the Devils, Flyers, Rags, etc.   So pulling in peeps for no name players is difficult (even with cheap tix and the tickets were not always all that cheap either).  

An AHL team, OTOH, would have some NHL nearly caliber players and even occasionally get players from the NHL itself.  It would be an easy sell in Trenton.  Of course that means it won't happen.  Maybe in 5 years when this contract is up they will come to Trenton.  Owell, it is a wasted opportunity IMHO.

http://www.hockeydb.com/stte/trenton-titans-8540.html

 

EDIT: I did a quick check to see where the Titans were in attendance (damn, now I forget the year) in either '04-05 or '05-06.  Unless I missed someone, they were 8th out of 28.  I am thinking you are remembering the situation the later Titans faced.  Properly run the Titans were one of the most successful franchises in the ECHL.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by AEWHistory
Additional note...

[Satans Hockey]

11 hours ago, AEWHistory said:

That's interesting as I have never heard anyone say that before.  Are you sure you aren't thinking of the post Devils Titans?  That was a mess and, yes, the attendance wasn't good (although I think it may have been slightly better than under the Devils).  Admittedly there was a drop off from the very first couple years, but attendance held above 5k per game for years (even during the championship run).  In a stadium that could only fit 6.5k that is fine average.  If memory serves, the Titans were always among the ECHL leaders for attendance in those years.  It was the last couple years as the first incarnation of the Titans where things started to drop off, but then the Devils really mucked things up and they never recovered (see link below).  But there was clearly a market here.  After all, this was an ECHL team.  In Trenton you can drive an hour and see the Devils, Flyers, Rags, etc.   So pulling in peeps for no name players is difficult (even with cheap tix and the tickets were not always all that cheap either).  

An AHL team, OTOH, would have some NHL nearly caliber players and even occasionally get players from the NHL itself.  It would be an easy sell in Trenton.  Of course that means it won't happen.  Maybe in 5 years when this contract is up they will come to Trenton.  Owell, it is a wasted opportunity IMHO.

http://www.hockeydb.com/stte/trenton-titans-8540.html

 

EDIT: I did a quick check to see where the Titans were in attendance (damn, now I forget the year) in either '04-05 or '05-06.  Unless I missed someone, they were 8th out of 28.  I am thinking you are remembering the situation the later Titans faced.  Properly run the Titans were one of the most successful franchises in the ECHL.

 

 

The attendance was still going down before the Devils arrived. The year of the lockout still had some weekday games where you could literally sit anywhere you wanted. Weekend games were of course better but the crowds were already leaving before the Devils arrived, that just helped it along a little quicker.

I attended a lot of games during those years right before the Devils came in and the only really great crowds were some Saturday games and promotional nights. I wouldn't trust their attendance figures. 

I feel like a lot of people just like to blame the Devils for something that was happening anyway. 

I'd have to go try and find some of my pictures from those seasons showing that the crowds weren't that great. They are on a drive somewhere lol

Edited February 2, 2017 by Satans Hockey