2019 Offseason Thread

[DevsMan84]

22 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

At least 3 names to would not want to give.

He’s a stud RW, young, and an RFA. 

Who’s in the mood for a controversial blockbuster suggestion, assuming the $$ can be worked out:

Hall, Zacha, Vatanen, a 2nd and another pick for Trouba and Laine. 

 

 

Am I the only one who would actually say yes to this?

Zacha is almost a non-entity for me

2nd rounder is just about nothing

Vatanen is 29 and a bit overhyped around here.  Trouba is younger and simply better.

Hall is better than Laine, but not a whole lot IMO.  I would rather take a hot and cold Laine over a guy who may play 50 games a season from here on out while counting towards over 10-13% of our cap.

[SterioDesign]

22 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Am I the only one who would actually say yes to this?

Zacha is almost a non-entity for me

2nd rounder is just about nothing

Vatanen is 29 and a bit overhyped around here.  Trouba is younger and simply better.

Hall is better than Laine, but not a whole lot IMO.  I would rather take a hot and cold Laine over a guy who may play 50 games a season from here on out while counting towards over 10-13% of our cap.

i think it's one of those things if devils fans were presented a choice between having package A or package B and that none of those players would have been on the roster already. That it would be different.. but most fans are now biased towards Hall obviously so it's really hard to look at it completely objectively. 

Cause you're right. right now... it would make more sense to have guys as young as possible. And laine is closer in age to nico, smith, hughes etc etc

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i think it's one of those things if devils fans were presented a choice between having package A or package B and that none of those players would have been on the roster already. That it would be different.. but most fans are now biased towards Hall obviously so it's really hard to look at it completely objectively. 

Cause you're right. right now... it would make more sense to have guys as young as possible. And laine is closer in age to nico, smith, hughes etc etc

Hall's injury has really thrown a huge wrench into things.  What seemed like a minor thing that was just nagging has now turned into a huge question mark.  Would it be smart to take a better hall for 50-60 games a season or a Laine at 80ish games a season?  Hall does have relatively low miles on him, but that's because he has had some significant injuries in his career.  In his 3 seasons here he has had 2 knee and 1 hand/wrist issues already with each ending up requiring surgery.

[Nicomo]

I don’t see Laine ever winning a Hart trophy. If Hall can stay healthy (which I think he can he’s played 72+ games 3 out of the last 4 seasons) and he’s playing with the likes of Nico and Hughes there’s no reason to think he can’t win another one. Or at the very least be in the conversation. I’m also not trading a guy that drives the play as much as Hall for pure goal scorer.

[2ELIAS6]

I think management has made it extremely clear that they are not going to look to trade away hall unless hall is not going to sign a contract here.. I am confident that hall is going to leave the door open to re-up as long as the team has some improvements made to it and with the #1 this year thats already a massive start

[mfitz804]

46 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Am I the only one who would actually say yes to this?

Zacha is almost a non-entity for me

2nd rounder is just about nothing

Vatanen is 29 and a bit overhyped around here.  Trouba is younger and simply better.

Hall is better than Laine, but not a whole lot IMO.  I would rather take a hot and cold Laine over a guy who may play 50 games a season from here on out while counting towards over 10-13% of our cap.

I honestly think you would have to consider it. Nobody knows what Hall is going to bring this season and going forward. I hope he is 100% recovered and wins another Hart this year, but it's probably more likely that he plays 50-60 games because of some injury. Maybe Hall is slightly better, I mean his stats really aren't but I base my opinions on watching games, not stats. A slightly better, oft injured, older UFA might not be as valuable as a younger RFA who is close in talent.

Vatanen for Trouba is a no-brainer IMHO. Consider the picks as compensation to Winnipeg for taking the older guy. 

Any trade that gets Zacha out of New Jersey works for me lol. In seriousness, you don't know if he'll ever be good, and the chance that he might be is what would make the Jets consider trading a guy who is still an RFA and thus under team control for an older UFA. 

I have to say, I think we'd be more likely to make that deal than Winnipeg would be. 

[mfitz804]

15 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

 I’m also not trading a guy that drives the play as much as Hall for pure goal scorer.

110 goals and 74 assists in 3 seasons. I don't know if I would label that guy a "pure goal scorer", he's set up quite a few. Does he tilt more toward goal scorer? Yes, that I will admit. 

[Nicomo]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

110 goals and 74 assists in 3 seasons. I don't know if I would label that guy a "pure goal scorer", he's set up quite a few. Does he tilt more toward goal scorer? Yes, that I will admit. 

He’s never had more than 28 assists in a season. Pretty comparable to Palms in that department. 

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

110 goals and 74 assists in 3 seasons. I don't know if I would label that guy a "pure goal scorer", he's set up quite a few. Does he tilt more toward goal scorer? Yes, that I will admit. 

a sniper like him with a setup man like hughes would be absolutely insane

[2ELIAS6]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Before everyone freaks out about the article TFP just dropped (saying Hall has no interest in re-signing) it’s worth noting that they guaranteed Nylander would be traded, officially reported that Karlsson to Tampa was a “done deal”, and their biggest breaking news (Tavarea to the leafs) came 5 minutes after Bob McKenzie reported it.

aka, it’s a hack website.

I saw that posted over on HF. Wasn't sure how reliable the source was, however if this is true..which would kind of be hard to believe after past comments etc. then we need to prepare to move on and see what options are out there

[DevsMan84]

Amazing how Pagnotta basically turned Hall's agent's "no comment" into a "Hall is done with NJ!!!!!!!!"

[SterioDesign]

in a way I kind of don't mind if Hall doesn't want to re-sign. Cause there is some reason to be worried with his health going forward... but we're too attached to say "fvck it" so if he doesn't want to re-sign. Shero will get something good for him and likely someone closer to our young boys' age and that would probably be for the best in the long run so.

Again just one of those situations that fans are just too emotionally invested to make the best call, but a good GM will

[jagknife]

15 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Before everyone freaks out about the article TFP just dropped (saying Hall has no interest in re-signing) it’s worth noting that they guaranteed Nylander would be traded, officially reported that Karlsson to Tampa was a “done deal”, and their biggest breaking news (Tavarea to the leafs) came 5 minutes after Bob McKenzie reported it.

aka, it’s a hack website.

I said it a few posts ago, but Dave Pagnotta is a freaking fraud. He should stick to his pathetic attempts at being the GQ of the NHL

[jagknife]

3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Amazing how Pagnotta basically turned Hall's agent's "no comment" into a "Hall is done with NJ!!!!!!!!"

And the Devils Insiders are guzzling gallons of TFP’s kool aid

[NJDfan1711]

It doesn't really make sense for Hall to have "no interest" in re-signing here.  I mean, he's been here for what, 3 years?  A year and a half of them were good, with him earning a Hart trophy and seeing us make the playoffs for the first time in a while, and the other season wasn't great mostly due to his own injury - that's hardly the teams fault.   You could argue that it would have been nice for the team to be deeper/stronger to withstand his injury and still be competitive, but he missed more than half of the season and he knows he's one of the cornerstones of the teams - not many others would be able to lose their star for that long and still make the playoffs.  Plus, there's so much more to be excited about and we're trending in an upward direction for sure.

[SterioDesign]

Honestly in hindsight what are we all happy about RIGHT now? 

that we have the first overall pick... that we have a bunch of picks to rebuild or make move to make the team better in the long run etc etc

The management is there to build a winning team. That's their end goal. Fans are there to be entertained. It's very different and important to understand the difference. 

Us being an average team barely making the playoffs this year would have prevented us from making suchhh a big step in our rebuild by getting the first overall and trading all those guys for extra picks. So the best scenario for the long term happened. Wanting to "snuck in" and being in some sort of delusion that "anything can happen once in the playoffs" is just ridiculous, obviously it's not completely impossible but the % is so damn low that it's not worth the sacrifice. 

And that's all stuff that Hall understand im sure

[mfitz804]

10 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

It doesn't really make sense for Hall to have "no interest" in re-signing here.  I mean, he's been here for what, 3 years?  A year and a half of them were good, with him earning a Hart trophy and seeing us make the playoffs for the first time in a while, and the other season wasn't great mostly due to his own injury - that's hardly the teams fault.   You could argue that it would have been nice for the team to be deeper/stronger to withstand his injury and still be competitive, but he missed more than half of the season and he knows he's one of the cornerstones of the teams - not many others would be able to lose their star for that long and still make the playoffs.  Plus, there's so much more to be excited about and we're trending in an upward direction for sure.

You can't say it makes no sense. You can argue it either way. 

He's been here for three years, as the result of a trade, i.e. against his will. He never wanted to come here. Immediately after getting traded, he said he would like to go back to Edmonton. He's Canadian, and there are Canadian teams that are way more competitive than we are right now. 

He won the Hart and we made the playoffs ONLY because he was the only good player on the team. If we had another star player on the roster, the whole "he carried the whole team" argument is invalid and one of the other guys wins the Hart. Should he be excited that the team sucked so bad that they gave him an award?

He got hurt and the team reverted to its previous state, not a playoff team, barely playing NHL hockey, and battling for last place overall. 

Add to all of that that he could make more money on the same contract in other states that don't have a State income tax. 

Is it more exciting for him to think that the Devils are moving in the right direction with young stars, or maybe consider going to a team that made the playoffs where he could maybe be the difference between a second round exit and a Stanley Cup?

All of the above are just counterpoints to your points. Bottom line is, none of us know what Taylor is thinking at this point. 

 

[Daniel]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

You can't say it makes no sense. You can argue it either way. 

He's been here for three years, as the result of a trade, i.e. against his will. He never wanted to come here. Immediately after getting traded, he said he would like to go back to Edmonton. He's Canadian, and there are Canadian teams that are way more competitive than we are right now. 

He won the Hart and we made the playoffs ONLY because he was the only good player on the team. If we had another star player on the roster, the whole "he carried the whole team" argument is invalid and one of the other guys wins the Hart. Should he be excited that the team sucked so bad that they gave him an award?

He got hurt and the team reverted to its previous state, not a playoff team, barely playing NHL hockey, and battling for last place overall. 

Add to all of that that he could make more money on the same contract in other states that don't have a State income tax. 

Is it more exciting for him to think that the Devils are moving in the right direction with young stars, or maybe consider going to a team that made the playoffs where he could maybe be the difference between a second round exit and a Stanley Cup?

All of the above are just counterpoints to your points. Bottom line is, none of us know what Taylor is thinking at this point. 

 

I've gotten pretty good information in the past that's supported by his actions and words that he likes playing here, and it's a good bet that he prefers it to playing for a Canadian based team given how the Canadian press has spread rumors about his personal life.  So I think you can take him at his word that what he's really interested in is making sure he plays for a winner.  Obviously being able to add a special player who plays center and that Hall knows will help.  It's also good that we're not hearing the same song and dance from Ray about "building through the draft" and there "not being shortcuts." 

Some have pointed out on HF Boards that Pagnotta said we were in on de Haan to the point of there being contract discussions, which both Ray and de Haan said weren't true.  While he's not as bad as Єklund (2.3% accurate), he does have the same habit of "breaking" stories that aren't really news, like Quinn Hughes going pro after Michigan's season was over, which pretty much everyone knew to begin with.

Whatever the case, now would be a good time for our supposed beat writers to follow up on the report.

 

[jagknife]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

Whatever the case, now would be a good time for our supposed beat writers to follow up on the report.

 

I would really like a comment from either side, to be honest. Nothing earth shattering, but hell even Ray confirming discussions again would be a step up. Obviously we can’t get “yeah we’re close on a contract,” that’s unrealistic and stupid, but something beyond the old Lou dark days

hey, I can dream we’re entitled to anything as a fan!

Edited June 3, 2019 by jagknife

[SterioDesign]

16 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I would really like a comment from either side, to be honest. Nothing earth shattering, but hell even Ray confirming discussions again would be a step up. Obviously we can’t get “yeah we’re close on a contract,” that’s unrealistic and stupid, but something beyond the old Lou dark days

hey, I can dream we’re entitled to anything as a fan!

That's precisely a big problem in society right now lol Fans thinking they are entitled to anything lol

all those petitions to get shows remade  or removed from canon cause they dont like something is getting ridiculous haha

[mfitz804]

40 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I've gotten pretty good information in the past that's supported by his actions and words that he likes playing here

I never take anyone's word on that. That's what you are SUPPOSED to say, whether you like it or you don't. You don't come to NJ with 4 years left on your contract and say "I hate this sh!thole, I can't wait until my contract expires". 

What actions are you referring to? To my knowledge he hasn't bought a house, gotten married, started a family, or any of the usual things that constitute putting down one's roots. What has he done to make you think he likes NJ other than saying it?

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I never take anyone's word on that. That's what you are SUPPOSED to say, whether you like it or you don't. You don't come to NJ with 4 years left on your contract and say "I hate this sh!thole, I can't wait until my contract expires". 

What actions are you referring to? To my knowledge he hasn't bought a house, gotten married, started a family, or any of the usual things that constitute putting down one's roots. What has he done to make you think he likes NJ other than saying it?

Admittedly it was second hand, but it was in the offseason prior to the start of 2017-18, i.e. coming off a really bad year, where someone I know and generally trust said he was happy with the organization and the area.

To be fair, I'm sure Tavares felt similarly about the Islanders.  So I agree that the issue will ultimately be whether he believes the Devils will be ready to compete soon and he would say trade me right now if Ray kept saying the goal is to build through the draft and so forth.

As I said earlier though, it would be nice if one of our useless beat writers tried to get something on what is actually of interest to the fans and not some puff piece about what Andy Greene is doing to occupy his time this offseason.

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, jagknife said:

And the Devils Insiders are guzzling gallons of TFP’s kool aid

All of those fan-written websites (outside of the former ILWT as I cannot think of current name now) are all trash.  I am surprised P&P haven't already written some tripe based off of this yet (that I am aware of).  The only qualifications for pretty much all of those are that you need a computer, internet connection and a pulse.

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Admittedly it was second hand, but it was in the offseason prior to the start of 2017-18, i.e. coming off a really bad year, where someone I know and generally trust said he was happy with the organization and the area.

To be fair, I'm sure Tavares felt similarly about the Islanders.  So I agree that the issue will ultimately be whether he believes the Devils will be ready to compete soon and he would say trade me right now if Ray kept saying the goal is to build through the draft and so forth.

As I said earlier though, it would be nice if one of our useless beat writers tried to get something on what is actually of interest to the fans and not some puff piece about what Andy Greene is doing to occupy his time this offseason.

I agree but I wouldn't hold my breath.  CR doesn't care, Abbey would rather cover the Mets and Stein is just a glorified PR spokesperson for the Devils.

[Daniel]

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

I agree but I wouldn't hold my breath.  CR doesn't care, Abbey would rather cover the Mets and Stein is just a glorified PR spokesperson for the Devils.

Obviously that's not Stein's job as she works for the team.  There's Masisak, but it seems like Athletic team beat writers don't intrude on the "insiders" scoops as a matter of unofficial policy.

It really can't be that fvcking hard for Abbey or CR to put a phone call into someone.  After all this time, you'd think that one of them would get some kind of source at least to get information on what others have reported, but I guess not.