The OFFICIAL Off-Season Thread

[jagknife]

51 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Tbf if it’s something like 8x8 then it’s not really top dollar though. Not when guy’s like Bo Horvat are making more than that. 

Yeah it’s not double digits, still on the higher end.

I’m thrilled we snagged him in the 6th and how his career has blossomed has been very impressive, just don’t love the flags. Obviously not red flags in the realm of “omg this is dumb” but still caution worthy

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, jagknife said:

Yeah it’s not double digits, still on the higher end.

I’m thrilled we snagged him in the 6th and how his career has blossomed has been very impressive, just don’t love the flags. Obviously not red flags in the realm of “omg this is dumb” but still caution worthy

I’d be better with him for 4-5 years than 8 myself.  He’s not a guy who screams “Gotta have him for 8 more years!”

4 years at $28 - 30 million, I’d happily do that.

[jagknife]

8 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I’d be better with him for 4-5 years than 8 myself.  He’s not a guy who screams “Gotta have him for 8 more years!”

4 years at $28 - 30 million, I’d happily do that.

It’s still just under $8m but for whatever reason that feels more palatable to me…

 

[Crisis]

1 hour ago, aylbert said:

I dont think we can anchor to Jack and Nico the further we get from their contract signings.

That's fair, I just looked up when Nico signed and I didn't realize it was 2020-2021.  It felt like much more recent than that.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 hours ago, jagknife said:

It’s still just under $8m but for whatever reason that feels more palatable to me…

 

Based in his current level of play, $7 million or so feels about right.

4-5 years also feels more movable down the line, if there needs to be a cap casualty at some point.  Two years remaining of Jesper might feel more palatable to some teams than, say, four plus years.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 hours ago, Lateralous said:

I agree 100%.   Hopefully this was Fitzgerald saying to his agent "here you go. We've been at this for months if not years and this is what the NJ Devils are comfortable paying your client.  Either he wants to be apart of this thing and signs or we can start looking into other arrangements later in the summer but I have to move on to other business of getting everyone else signed."   

You have to think if Fitz is offering 8 years, it has to be a shockingly low AVV, like 6.5 or something.   When I say shockingly low, I mean in relation to what the media is reporting.    

I’ll be stunned if he signs for anything less than an AAV of $7 million.  Even at full term. 

[NJDevils1214]

I have doubts about Bratt's ability to perform both consistently and under pressure. That alone is enough for me to find 8x8 to be...rather unpalatable. I am still hoping Fitz stand's firm on whatever he thinks is fair and when the draft comes we will find out what he is thinking.

[Bonginator11]

https://www.nj.com/devils/2023/06/heres-the-latest-on-devils-jesper-bratts-extension-talks.html?outputType=amp

[Have Another Donut]

They don't need Bratt for 7+M-they need these kind of guys Kolesar 1.4M, Carrier 1.4M, Roy 3M, Howden 1.5M, Amadio also cheap.

Size/Grit/Skate/Some Skill     Vegas is HUGE- Devs need that-they have enough small skill guys.  Notice all playoffs the 4th

lines of all the winning teams made big contributions.  Sign Timo.  Bratt 6.5 for 4 years take it or leave it.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

15 minutes ago, Bonginator11 said:

https://www.nj.com/devils/2023/06/heres-the-latest-on-devils-jesper-bratts-extension-talks.html?outputType=amp

Not all that much there...just a lot of speculation, with Lebrun references (he thinks Bratt's camp might want something shorter-term due to the cap possibly going up, and thinks that Fitz has an 8-year offer on the table...who knows where he's getting his info).  

[Lateralous]

4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I’ll be stunned if he signs for anything less than an AAV of $7 million.  Even at full term. 

No doubt but other than keeping the AAV artificially low, I don't understand why Fitzgerald would want to go to 8 years with Bratt.   I'm with you that I would actually prefer a 4-5 year deal with him.

[Guadana]

On 6/1/2023 at 4:45 PM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

C'mon, Bratt was invisible for considerable stretches during the playoffs...Timo may not have come up with a lot of points, but he was a lot more noticeable in general.  Bratt's lone goal came on an empty-netter...I can't really make much of a case for him having produced a lot of offense.  I didn't see a guy who was unlucky or snakebitten, as much as I saw a player who was pretty easily neutralized, to a concerning degree.  I gotta be fair though...it's not like the Devils lit it up offensively as a team come playoff time.

As far as potentially "stepping back", after he got off to that flying start, he played 67 games (regular season and playoffs combined) and put up 23 G and 26 A...that's good for 28 G and 32 A per 82 GP.  Now of course hopefully he doesn't slide back to that degree over the course of a full regular season...but if he did, I can't see a 60-or-so-points-pace per 82 GP thrilling anyone...BUT, if he had a season like that and then shredded it in the playoffs, people would forget a meh-ish regular season VERY quickly I'm sure.  

He needs experience. Like everybody else.
Nico was great defensively, but didn’t produce a lot. 
Meier was good physically but didn’t produce a lot.
Bratt was good in transition and creating, but didn’t produce a lot.

It is his his job. He is good in transition and creating. He isn’t good against forechecking team, he is good against trap/breakaway teams and against teams with slow/weak defense. 
 

If you think that if we will lose depth of top players and it’s okay, you are making mistake. If you are trying to tell that Bratt is 60p per 82g player, you are making mistake. He has different sections. Where he was 1.5+ ppg player and where he was 0.7- ppg player. He played two seasons and produced 73 points in both. THIS is what he is. Don’t create false narrative.

this team need experience and depth. 8mil in 83 mil cap hit is less than 10%. When cap hit will go up, % of cap hit will go down. 8 mil is what Fiala has(how many playoff points he produced?), we have another examples of Kyrou, Thomas etc. and Bratt played for “thank you” two years, he overplayed his actual deal. He proved everything and worth his money. And he is still very young. 
 

Thinking that Devils don’t need him and that he isn’t worth 8 mil in our cap space is nonsense. He is great possession player and can take a time of good defensemen of opposition. If you think that players like him are growing on trees, you are wrong. If you think we can win the trade of him, you are wrong. If you think that trade of Bratt can make our team better, you are wrong. And his cap hit will not hurt us. 17.5 mil for Meier and Bratt will not hurt us. Because we need both. We need all of our core player to have more expiring each, more playoff experience, find better chemistry. And time. 

[Guadana]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:51 AM, Lateralous said:

I don’t think anyone disagrees that 8 million is what he can probably get on the open market if he wants to ride this out to a trade or UFA.  The question is if a team in our position should allocate that percentage of the cap to him for what he brings.   In many ways he’s the offensive version of Severson.   I absolutely think Severson will get a 7 million AAV in a 32 team league where everyone needs to fill out a top4.   I don’t think a Tampa, Colorado, Carolina or NJ who have actual dreams of winning the cup should even think about paying him

it’s ok to pay him 8 mil. He is top 50 player in points. It’s a first line player. 10% of cap space is okay for 1st line level player. Zajac placed more cap space % in his first year of his long term deal. 

[Anhkheg]

----

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Anhkheg

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

@Guadana sometimes you accuse me of what you misinterpret my posts to be as opposed to what I’m actually saying, but I did say I was on board with 4 years at $28 - 30 million overall.  I’m not exactly shoving him out the door.  

[NJDevils1214]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

@Guadana sometimes you accuse me of what you misinterpret my posts to be as opposed to what I’m actually saying, but I did say I was on board with 4 years at $28 - 30 million overall.  I’m not exactly shoving him out the door.  

At least he didn't accuse you of not even reading what other people are saying lol.

Bratt is just a "sugar puppy" lol. No 8x8.

[Lateralous]

1 hour ago, Guadana said:

it’s ok to pay him 8 mil. He is top 50 player in points. It’s a first line player. 10% of cap space is okay for 1st line level player. Zajac placed more cap space % in his first year of his long term deal. 

Fundamentally, I just don’t agree with this at all.  I look at it like Bratt is our 6th best player at best (Hughes, Hischier, Meier, Hamilton and Marino) going into next season and that’s before Luke Hughes laps him in the next year or two.  IMO one of the most underrated things in the salary cap era is being able to outfit your bottom 9 and 2nd/3rd pair D with quality 2-4 million dollar players instead of just paying the “stars”.   I can’t wrap my head around committing 8-10% of our cap towards our 6th or 7th best player, especially when his game doesn’t exactly translate to the playoffs where I would add Palat, McLeod, Haula and Schmid to the list of guys who were significantly better than him this past postseason

Edited June 9, 2023 by Lateralous

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

16 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

Fundamentally, I just don’t agree with this at all.  I look at it like Bratt is our 6th best player at best (Hughes, Hischier, Meier, Hamilton and Marino) going into next season and that’s before Luke Hughes laps him in the next year or two.  IMO one of the most underrated things in the salary cap era is being able to outfit your bottom 9 and 2nd/3rd pair D with quality 2-4 million dollar players instead of just paying the “stars”.   I can’t wrap my head around committing 8-10% of our cap towards our 6th or 7th best player, especially when his game doesn’t exactly translate to the playoffs where I would add Palat, McLeod, Haula and Schmid to the list of guys who were significantly better than him this past postseason

After Timo (Fitz gave up just enough not to want to go all out in keeping him), I get the feeling the next “Let’s go at least 7 years for THIS guy!” will almost definitely be Luke.  And Nemec might not be far behind.

And of course big year for Dawson coming up.

I think we both agree…can’t just go handing out 8-year deals to everyone.  

[Nicomo]

Bratt is a better player than Marino. C’mon now. I know we’re all super down on him after a very quiet playoffs, but people are taking it a bit far at this point. Bratt is one of the better young wingers in the game right now. Marino is a steady, solid defender, but better than Bratt is a bit much. 

[slasher72]

https://www.foreverblueshirts.com/rangers-rumors-john-hynes-now-front-runner-to-be-next-coach/amp/

Edited June 9, 2023 by slasher72

[Guadana]

10 hours ago, Lateralous said:

Fundamentally, I just don’t agree with this at all.  I look at it like Bratt is our 6th best player at best (Hughes, Hischier, Meier, Hamilton and Marino) going into next season and that’s before Luke Hughes laps him in the next year or two.  IMO one of the most underrated things in the salary cap era is being able to outfit your bottom 9 and 2nd/3rd pair D with quality 2-4 million dollar players instead of just paying the “stars”.   I can’t wrap my head around committing 8-10% of our cap towards our 6th or 7th best player, especially when his game doesn’t exactly translate to the playoffs where I would add Palat, McLeod, Haula and Schmid to the list of guys who were significantly better than him this past postseason

We are talking about 8 mil for one of the best transition player with 73 points level, not about 11 mil for 80 points player. I agree with you about good bottom players, but it doesn’t hurt any ways if you are paying 8 players for players like Bratt.

 

10 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said:

At least he didn't accuse you of not even reading what other people are saying lol.

Bratt is just a "sugar puppy" lol. No 8x8.

huyoll. Check market prices. 

[Guadana]

11 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

@Guadana sometimes you accuse me of what you misinterpret my posts to be as opposed to what I’m actually saying, but I did say I was on board with 4 years at $28 - 30 million overall.  I’m not exactly shoving him out the door.  

4 years deal to Bratt should be the best case scenario. I don’t think he is waiting for that. He should want 1-2 years or 8 years deal. If we will sign him for 4 years even for 9 mil, I would be very happy about it. But I’m not waiting for that because, like I did before, Im talking about reality standpoints. 

[Lateralous]

10 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Bratt is a better player than Marino. C’mon now. I know we’re all super down on him after a very quiet playoffs, but people are taking it a bit far at this point. Bratt is one of the better young wingers in the game right now. Marino is a steady, solid defender, but better than Bratt is a bit much. 

Maybe better was the wrong term but I think our best all around defenseman is more important to the team's success 

1 hour ago, Guadana said:

We are talking about 8 mil for one of the best transition player with 73 points level, not about 11 mil for 80 points player. I agree with you about good bottom players, but it doesn’t hurt any ways if you are paying 8 players for players like Bratt.

 

I'm no capologist but I can't shake the feeling that Bratt is going to be the guy whose contract becomes an albatross and gets us in cap trouble.  I agree with everyone who says 4-5 years would be ideal but this whole conversation started with the news that Fitzgerald has a 8 year offer on the table.   

 

1 hour ago, Guadana said:

4 years deal to Bratt should be the best case scenario. I don’t think he is waiting for that. He should want 1-2 years or 8 years deal. If we will sign him for 4 years even for 9 mil, I would be very happy about it. But I’m not waiting for that because, like I did before, Im talking about reality standpoints. 

I actually would be fine with a 2 year deal.   It kicks the can down the line for at least another playoff to see if Bratt is a guy who will always be easily neutralized in the playoffs or if his game evolves.   I'm not worried about the guy who gives you 73 points in the regular season while being a beast in transition, it's the playoff no show that has me so concerned about locking him in long term 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Lateralous

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

59 minutes ago, Guadana said:

4 years deal to Bratt should be the best case scenario. I don’t think he is waiting for that. He should want 1-2 years or 8 years deal. If we will sign him for 4 years even for 9 mil, I would be very happy about it. But I’m not waiting for that because, like I did before, Im talking about reality standpoints. 

Four years wouldn't be so bad for him because he'll only entering his Age 29 at the end of that deal...29-year-olds still get some damned good coin if they're not showing any signs of decline.

I don't think Fitz has any interest in potentially losing him for nothing after only a year or two.  Yeah assuming Bratt has another season similar to this past one (and with an improved playoff performance), a one-year deal would be great for him...even two years wouldn't bad, as he'd be entering his Age 27 season at that point.

If Fitz caps his terms at 4-5 years, I'll be happy with it.  I have nothing to base this on, but I have a feeling that if he's resigned, it will be for 6 years at somewhere around $7.75 million AAV.  Just a crazy wild guess.  

[Nicomo]

He was the longest tenured Devil. I’m guessing that would now be Miles Wood?