Lateralous Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 It would be a shame to move on from Holtz before we see what he can do under another coach. This would be like moving Larsson before he got out from under DeBoer's jackassery. His trade value wouldn't have been "one for one" that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 15 minutes ago, Lateralous said: It would be a shame to move on from Holtz before we see what he can do under another coach. This would be like moving Larsson before he got out from under DeBoer's jackassery. His trade value wouldn't have been "one for one" that's for sure. I'm not opposed to moving him (or Casey) for the right return. I'm just not convinced that it's Markstrom, especially if a first-rounder was also to be involved. Over the past nine seasons overall he's been solidly average...his GSAA per 60 mins is 0.059. He had a terrific season in 2021-22 but followed that up with a very meh campaign last year. He's been hot lately: a .935 save% over his last 12 starts. His age and cap hit (without any retention) scare me. If he was a few years younger I might be more interested, but Devils would get his Age 34/35 and Age 35/36 seasons; a first-rounder and Holtz seem and zero retention is too stiff of a price to pay. Is he that final piece kind of guy who's going to lead the Devils to a Cup? He wasn't anything special in his last playoff run (.901 save%). If the Devils got the 2022-23 version of Markstrom in either 2024-25 or 2025-26, fans would be losing their sh!t over having acquired him. His 2022-23 is about what 2023-24 VV's been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Nico's last 153 regular season games: 60 G, 91 A, 151 Pts, +41, 22 PIM Basically 32 G and 49 A per 82 GP. Not so long ago those rate numbers seemed like an absolute pipe dream, and he's coming up on almost two full seasons' worth of that kind of production. He takes his share of barbs here sometimes...maybe he's one of those guys who some fans could ease up on? Guy has become a damned good player everywhere on the ice...he's not perfect, but plenty damned good. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 https://www.nj.com/devils/2024/02/devils-should-pay-high-price-tag-for-predators-juuse-saros.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=njdevilsonnjcom_sf&utm_content=nj_facebook_njdevilsonnjcom&fbclid=IwAR25Cdy3Zp1KLy-vI27FBQZ4EiRJXZHRj8ZhbJ9s6ze4Y9PwOMhtRzDh5ro_aem_AYbHxxOBXZMz84e-bm3EF--l3hhMkhVr4Ffcj-ZeKjo9OSnP6YKFMOsk42TT1sO2GRE Fitzgerald’s interest is there, too. In an interview with 102.5 The Game in Nashville ahead of Tuesday’s game, Predators GM Barry Trotz – Fitzgerald’s coach when he captained the team in the late 1990s – revealed that he speaks with his ex-player about deals for goaltenders “all the time.” “On goaltending he always circles back, and I go, ‘Well this is what we need if we’re going to do something like that,’” Trotz said. “I’ve made it very public: It has to be something that will shake me a little bit and makes sense for both teams. I’m in no hurry to do it, I don’t need a goaltender –– he does. I keep reminding him of that. But he’s asset management, he’s doing his diligence around the league. And, as I said to (Saros), unless something knocks me backwards, I’m always going to let him be in the fold.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 8 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: https://www.nj.com/devils/2024/02/devils-should-pay-high-price-tag-for-predators-juuse-saros.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=njdevilsonnjcom_sf&utm_content=nj_facebook_njdevilsonnjcom&fbclid=IwAR25Cdy3Zp1KLy-vI27FBQZ4EiRJXZHRj8ZhbJ9s6ze4Y9PwOMhtRzDh5ro_aem_AYbHxxOBXZMz84e-bm3EF--l3hhMkhVr4Ffcj-ZeKjo9OSnP6YKFMOsk42TT1sO2GRE Fitzgerald’s interest is there, too. In an interview with 102.5 The Game in Nashville ahead of Tuesday’s game, Predators GM Barry Trotz – Fitzgerald’s coach when he captained the team in the late 1990s – revealed that he speaks with his ex-player about deals for goaltenders “all the time.” “On goaltending he always circles back, and I go, ‘Well this is what we need if we’re going to do something like that,’” Trotz said. “I’ve made it very public: It has to be something that will shake me a little bit and makes sense for both teams. I’m in no hurry to do it, I don’t need a goaltender –– he does. I keep reminding him of that. But he’s asset management, he’s doing his diligence around the league. And, as I said to (Saros), unless something knocks me backwards, I’m always going to let him be in the fold.” You're probably looking at Mercer and Casey to get Trotz's attention...one player who's an NHLer right now, and a solid prospect for down the line. And then of course Saros has to be signed (after next season), and of course once you re-up him, you'll be signing up for age 30+ seasons. Not saying I would do this, just that Trotz is making it clear that it's gonna take some serious loot for him to cough up Saros. Devils aren't going to get that kind of upgrade without giving up something significant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 5 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Nico's last 153 regular season games: 60 G, 91 A, 151 Pts, +41, 22 PIM Basically 32 G and 49 A per 82 GP. Not so long ago those rate numbers seemed like an absolute pipe dream, and he's coming up on almost two full seasons' worth of that kind of production. He takes his share of barbs here sometimes...maybe he's one of those guys who some fans could ease up on? Guy has become a damned good player everywhere on the ice...he's not perfect, but plenty damned good. My only issue with Nico is that he sometimes forgets about his offense, although even that seems to be much less of a problem of late. Otherwise, I think his play has been excellent, and I’ve felt for some time that were it not for Jack’s presence, he would be the Devils’ franchise player. It says something about this team’s quality of talent and drafting capability that Nico and Jesper aren’t the number-one guy, as they would be on some other teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 14 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Not saying I would do this, just that Trotz is making it clear that it's gonna take some serious loot for him to cough up Saros. Devils aren't going to get that kind of upgrade without giving up something significant. No doubt. Saros is really good though. Makes you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 18 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said: My only issue with Nico is that he sometimes forgets about his offense, although even that seems to be much less of a problem of late. Otherwise, I think his play has been excellent, and I’ve felt for some time that were it not for Jack’s presence, he would be the Devils’ franchise player. It says something about this team’s quality of talent and drafting capability that Nico and Jesper aren’t the number-one guy, as they would be on some other teams. Agreed. We have a ton of offensive firepower. We saw it last year. This year has been a bit of a decline, but the pieces are there. I mean, when Timo Meier is your fourth best forward, that's really saying something, because he was #1 on the Sharks last year, and would be #1 on other teams too. A core of Jack-Bratt-Nico-Meier, with Toffoli-Mercer-Holtz-Palat behind them is scary. Losing McLeod sucks, but Haula-Lazar-Bastian-Smith as the final four isn't bad at all. Compound that with the fact that half of our D group is made up of offensive D-men (Dougie, Luke, Nemec), we should be dripping in goals every night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, ButlerBulldog said: My only issue with Nico is that he sometimes forgets about his offense, although even that seems to be much less of a problem of late. Otherwise, I think his play has been excellent, and I’ve felt for some time that were it not for Jack’s presence, he would be the Devils’ franchise player. It says something about this team’s quality of talent and drafting capability that Nico and Jesper aren’t the number-one guy, as they would be on some other teams. He’s pretty much at a PPG over his last 153 GP. Given the early projections when he was drafted and his overall skillset, not sure how much more offense he should be expected to provide. What you’re seeing now is probably about what you can expect going forward. But yeah, good at several other things. He’s a very complete package. 1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said: No doubt. Saros is really good though. Makes you think. It’s funny, on one hand, if Fitz ever went this far with a return, it almost guarantees that not signing Saros would be a serious failure…can’t make a deal like that and only have him for the rest of this season and next. But imagine if Saros came here and was meh? Do you still re-sign him then? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Is Saros just a projection or are there actually serious discussions going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 4 minutes ago, njbuff said: Is Saros just a projection or are there actually serious discussions going on? At the moment, he’s a pipe dream based on friendly discussions between Fitz and Trotz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smelly Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) Fitz and Conroy moving heaven and earth to try and make it work. Personally skeptical (and very much opposed), but Mercer reportedly not safe. Edited February 15 by smelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 (edited) 14 minutes ago, smelly said: Fitz and Conroy moving heaven and earth to try and make it work. Personally skeptical (and very much opposed), but Mercer reportedly not safe. This is from your source? And yeah I’m gonna be pissed if Mercer goes. Holtz? Not crazy about that either. But Merc is a hard no. Edited February 15 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said: This is from your source? And yeah I’m gonna be pissed if Mercer goes. Holtz? Not crazy about that either. But Merc is a hard no. Count me among those skeptical about the whole "source" thing, but if Mercer goes in any deal for friggin' 34-year-old Markstrom, there had better be another useful piece coming back. Even if that means Calgary suddenly becomes willing to retain money, I'm still not gonna be happy about Mercer being involved in any deals for Markstrom. If it's for Saros, then I'm more willing to include Mercer, should it come to that. Gotta give to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Count me among those skeptical about the whole "source" thing, but if Mercer goes in any deal for friggin' 34-year-old Markstrom, there had better be another useful piece coming back. 💯💯💯💯💯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: If it's for Saros, then I'm more willing to include Mercer, should it come to that. Gotta give to get. Yeah it would hurt, but for Saros I’d understand. Edited February 15 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessus Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Trading Holtz for Markstrom would also be a disaster. You need young, cheap players in order to be competitive. I will start losing faith in Fitz if he sends Holtz for Markstrom. It is not the right move. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Why would we move Mercer plus for a 34 year old goalie? What are we going to have him for 2 years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Yeah it would hurt, but for Saros I’d understand. Yeah you deal Mercer for Saros, that's one less big raise to dole out, and the idea is that Saros' peak hopefully lasts another 6 seasons or so. Basically Saros will be as old then as Markstrom is right now. 1 minute ago, nessus said: Trading Holtz for Markstrom would also be a disaster. You need young, cheap players in order to be competitive. I will start losing faith in Fitz if he sends Holtz for Markstrom. It is not the right move. Sadly I think part of the reason that Holtz might be "expendable" is because something is up behind the scenes between Holtz and Ruff. I have no idea what it is, but Lindy just really seemed to have a hard-on for him. If Ruff was a coach that I actually respected (or had a more impressive resume than compiling wins due to Buffalo letting him coach forever), I might understand letting him win this one. I still think Holtz's future is iffy, but I've seen enough of him this year to give him at least another season as a Devil to keep making progress. If he goes in a deal for Saros, that's one thing. If it's for Markstrom...I just don't see Markstrom moving the needle enough for the Devils to give up too much for him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 5 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said: Why would we move Mercer plus for a 34 year old goalie? What are we going to have him for 2 years? Two years beyond this one, but like I've pointed out, for his Age 34/35 and Age 35/36 years. If I'm the Flames I make that deal all day long even if I have to eat half of Markstrom's money. I'll be furious if this actually happens. Edited February 15 by Colorado Rockies 1976 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smelly Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Two years beyond this one, but like I've pointed out, for his Age 34/35 and Age 35/36 years. If I'm the Flames I make that deal all day long even if I have to eat half of Markstrom's money. I'll be furious if this actually happens. The only way I could conceivably see Mercer included is if the deal were expanded to include Hanifan/Tanev or the like; for the record I have heard nothing of the sort. I would personally oppose that and don't think it would make sense for a host of reasons (e.g., pending UFA and future cap space precluding a re-sign). However, I do not see that happening, which is why notwithstanding what I have reported I am skeptical that that part comes even close to fruition in a deal, and especially not one for simply a retained Markstrom. Very confident in the report that they are still talking. Take that as you will. Edited February 15 by smelly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 8 minutes ago, smelly said: The only way I could conceivably see Mercer included is if the deal were expanded to include Hanifan/Tanev or the like; for the record I have heard nothing of the sort. I would personally oppose that and don't think it would make sense for a host of reasons (e.g., pending UFA and future cap space precluding a re-sign). However, I do not see that happening, which is why notwithstanding what I have reported I am skeptical that that part comes even close to fruition in a deal, and especially not one for simply a retained Markstrom. Very confident in the report that they are still talking. Take that as you will. I'm definitely not surprised that they might still be talking. It all depends upon Calgary realizing that their guy's prime is running out and he brings a not-great cap hit with him. And even if he's been hot lately, he's only a year removed from a very meh-ish season. They shouldn't expect to get some insane return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunninWithTheDevil Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Would anyone pull the trigger on Mercer + Holtz + Protected First for Tanev and Markstrom + 50% Retained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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