GDT - 11/22/23 Devils @ Red Wings 7:00pm MSGSN2

[Nicomo]

Btw it’s now late November and Dawson Mercer currently has 4 points, and is on pace for what, about a 20 point season? What a disappointment (one of many tbf), after coming close to a 30-30 season last year. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Btw it’s now late November and Dawson Mercer currently has 4 points, and is on pace for what, about a 20 point season? What a disappointment (one of many tbf), after coming close to a 30-30 season last year. 

One assist.  By now you figure he’d have at least three or four by accident.

[hit the post]

We keep losing while the Rangers keep winning.....I had such hope for this season....Same sh!t show as always....FVCK

[Anhkheg]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

At least he’s taking accountability. 

Is Tierney injured? I mean Brendan Smith has no business being in this lineup.

[NJDevils1214]

1 minute ago, Anhkheg said:

Is Tierney injured? I mean Brendan Smith has no business being in this lineup.

Tierney is also awful and has no business playing in the NHL.

[smelly]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I didn’t say that I’m fully on board with Gallant.  Or any of the other options listed.  But I can’t pretend that staying the course with Lindy is going to be any better.  Fitz is going to have to start exploring options sooner than later.

re:  Halak, he was given a shot to make a team in need of goaltending help and was cut.  And is 38.  No thanks.

I didn’t say that I’m fully on board with Halak. Or any of the other options others have proposed.   But I can’t pretend that staying the course with VV/AS is going to be any better.  Fitz is going to have to start exploring options sooner than later.

[NJDevs4978]

2 hours ago, HughesCorporation said:

this is Johnny Mac bad...

It's not close to Johnny Mac bad yet and I can't ever see it being close to that (a 100-point team playing at a 40-point pace)...this is more like 2019 bad.  They got some work to do to prove they weren't a fluke like the 2017-18 team, cause right now they look like just another fvcking one-hit wonder who believed its own press this summer.  Their record is even a bit flattering tbh given how good Jack and the PP have been, covered a lot of warts early until Jack got hurt and the refs just stopped calling penalties on our opponents.

Edited November 23, 2023 by NJDevs4978

[Nicomo]

I’m sure Fitz has been exploring his options (he very well might have been the “very strong offer” for Saros last year for all we know). Problem is decent goalies who are actually available, and will fit under the cap, don’t grow on trees. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

24 minutes ago, smelly said:

I didn’t say that I’m fully on board with Halak. Or any of the other options others have proposed.   But I can’t pretend that staying the course with VV/AS is going to be any better.  Fitz is going to have to start exploring options sooner than later.

And this is why I don’t engage with you

[smelly]

5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

And this is why I don’t engage with you

You disagree? Seriously?

 

That logic equally applies to their goalkeeping, and if you can’t admit that then you have an agenda or just are too stubborn to recognize your optimism outlasted reality by a large margin. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by smelly

[smelly]

17 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’m sure Fitz has been exploring his options (he very well might have been the “very strong offer” for Saros last year for all we know). Problem is decent goalies who are actually available, and will fit under the cap, don’t grow on trees. 

Decent ones, maybe. 
 

But that’s more than is required to improve upon the current tandem. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

30 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’m sure Fitz has been exploring his options (he very well might have been the “very strong offer” for Saros last year for all we know). Problem is decent goalies who are actually available, and will fit under the cap, don’t grow on trees. 

I think you’re right, but I also think Fitz was trying so hard not to add significant payroll via a new goalie, and felt good enough about VV and Schmid based on 2022-23 to roll with them again.  I don’t think Fitz saw these guys getting off to a collective start like this, where neither one is establishing himself.

Part of the reason the Devils are where they are is that they have just been completely unable to draft a legit goalie no matter what round or draft…maybe Schmid becomes that guy, but right now who the fvck knows?  Is it Brennan down the line?  Malek?  This team has drafted a goalie in every draft since 2015…pretty much 4th and 5th round picks, but would be nice to eventually fully hit on one.

Hell, do the Devils actually say fvck it and consider Poulter if neither VV nor Schmid get it going?  FWIW, he’s played pretty well with Utica so far.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

This team is in freefall.

I still maintain losing both Severson and Graves at the same time was a massive gamble by Fitz and the team doesn't look close to the same without them. Those guys got Lindys system and made it work.

I have not given up hope on this team, they have the talent to cause anyone problems,  but I think it's going to take some trades to get the personell the roster needs to perform.

 

[ringtwins]

What about that guy Brunette? 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

This team is in freefall.

I still maintain losing both Severson and Graves at the same time was a massive gamble by Fitz and the team doesn't look close to the same without them. Those guys got Lindys system and made it work.

I have not given up hope on this team, they have the talent to cause anyone problems,  but I think it's going to take some trades to get the personell the roster needs to perform.

 

Re:  Seves and Graves, it wasn’t a gamble…there simply was no reason to keep them.  Luke was obviously joining the Devils for good this season, and Nemec will be on the team to start next season, at the very latest.  And it’s not like the cap room was there to keep either Seves or Graves.

Another way to look at it:  did you want Seves at his cap hit for 8 years, and/or Graves at his hit for 6 years?  Would it have made any sense for the Devils to sign them for the money and term that they got elsewhere?

What needs to happen is that overall, the D still here from last season needs to play better.  I don’t disagree that Fitz may need to tweak, and on that front, maybe he needs to explore moving Bahl + other pieces for more of a veteran D.  I don’t see Fitz moving Siegs (whose extension just kicked in this year), Hamilton, Marino, or Luke, so it’s really only Bahl, Miller, or Smith that would be dealt in a D shakeup.  

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

50 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Re:  Seves and Graves, it wasn’t a gamble…there simply was no reason to keep them.  Luke was obviously joining the Devils for good this season, and Nemec will be on the team to start next season, at the very latest.  And it’s not like the cap room was there to keep either Seves or Graves.

Another way to look at it:  did you want Seves at his cap hit for 8 years, and/or Graves at his hit for 6 years?  Would it have made any sense for the Devils to sign them for the money and term that they got elsewhere?

What needs to happen is that overall, the D still here from last season needs to play better.  I don’t disagree that Fitz may need to tweak, and on that front, maybe he needs to explore moving Bahl + other pieces for more of a veteran D.  I don’t see Fitz moving Siegs (whose extension just kicked in this year), Hamilton, Marino, or Luke, so it’s really only Bahl, Miller, or Smith that would be dealt in a D shakeup.  

I disagree, I think it was a gamble because Fitz was banking on Bahl taking a step, others maintaining their level whilst having a number of new partnerships at that back end and Luke elevating his defensive game. None of that was even close to a given.

Personally I would have kept Graves, even at what he got from Pitsburgh (and I think he might have taken less to stay here on what should have been a strong team). Given the free cap space and not singing Miller and one of Smith or Nosek you can make that work. That contract would have been movable when it needed to be moved.

Severson was never going to be able to stay, and I wouldn't have wanted him at what was being offered.

I just don't think you can lose that much of your defensive unit whilst downgrading the quality of player replacing them not to expect a decline in performance. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

23 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

I disagree, I think it was a gamble because Fitz was banking on Bahl taking a step, others maintaining their level whilst having a number of new partnerships at that back end and Luke elevating his defensive game. None of that was even close to a given.

Personally I would have kept Graves, even at what he got from Pitsburgh (and I think he might have taken less to stay here on what should have been a strong team). Given the free cap space and not singing Miller and one of Smith or Nosek you can make that work. That contract would have been movable when it needed to be moved.

Severson was never going to be able to stay, and I wouldn't have wanted him at what was being offered.

I just don't think you can lose that much of your defensive unit whilst downgrading the quality of player replacing them not to expect a decline in performance. 

When you have Luke already here and Nemec about to join the fray, difficult decisions have to be made.

The only way Graves might’ve stuck around would’ve been if no one at all offered him a long-term deal.  Would I have taken him back on a one-year or two-year stopgap deal?  Sure.  But in fairness, why would he want to sign anything long-term here if the Devils were just going to dump him sooner than later anyway?  With Pittsburgh at least it appears that they really want him to be there for quite a while.  It could be that he wanted to play somewhere where he could settle down.

It’s also VERY fair to point out that Graves had a pretty lousy playoff last year, and there were plenty of complaints about him during the season…I actually liked him in general more than most here.  But both Colorado AND the Devils moved on from him for a reason.

Fitz brought in a solid stopgap option in Miller, but he’s only now gotten into the lineup.

Bahl did appear to be on a good path of progression based on last season, but maybe that’s where Fitz may have to reassess how patient that he really wants to be.

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Lateralous]

18 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

 

I just don't think you can lose that much of your defensive unit whilst downgrading the quality of player replacing them not to expect a decline in performance. 

I’m sure Fitz expected that there was going to be some growing pains with this transition, hence Nemec is still in Utica.  IMO, signing Miller for 40% of what Graves got on a one year term was a perfectly responsible move to cover the transition while the young guys work they way in.  Unfortunately, Miller got hurt and both Hamilton and Marino (earlier) have played large portions of the season with their heads up their asses. 
 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, Lateralous said:

I’m sure Fitz expected that there was going to be some growing pains with this transition, hence Nemec is still in Utica.  IMO, signing Miller for 40% of what Graves got on a one year term was a perfectly responsible move to cover the transition while the young guys work they way in.  Unfortunately, Miller got hurt and both Hamilton and Marino (earlier) have played large portions of the season with their heads up their asses. 
 

 

Agree with most the above, but I feel like Siegs for the balance of the season has been more of an issue than Marino.  He’s been plenty disappointing.

[Lateralous]

20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

 

Bahl did appear to be on a good path of progression based on last season, but maybe that’s where Fitz may have to reassess how patient that he really wants to be.  

Ha, you beat me to essentially the same answer.

Re: Bahl.  He’s still only played 83 games in the NHL. I think he has the potential to grow into exactly the type of complementary D man we need for the more offensive minded guys.   I personally am willing to deal with his growing pains .  The vets need to play better.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Lateralous

[PuckDropper]

Sarge.  Time for a shake up.  Lindy out. Goalie coach out.  Sarge named interim and see how he does. Players like and respect him.  Fix D system, then see if goalie play can pick up before trying a trade.  Too much fundamentally wrong right now. Have to shake this group up

[jagknife]

5 minutes ago, PuckDropper said:

Sarge.  Time for a shake up.  Lindy out. Goalie coach out.  Sarge named interim and see how he does. Players like and respect him.  Fix D system, then see if goalie play can pick up before trying a trade.  Too much fundamentally wrong right now. Have to shake this group up

Of our four coaches, Green is the only one safeish. Goalie coach, McGill and Ruff need to go. None of the adjust.

if that doesn’t work by the new year, trade 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

11 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Of our four coaches, Green is the only one safeish. Goalie coach, McGill and Ruff need to go. None of the adjust.

if that doesn’t work by the new year, trade 

I’d go Green interim, then interview who’s available.  I’m definitely fine with McGill leaving with Ruff.  

[devlman]

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Re:  Seves and Graves, it wasn’t a gamble…there simply was no reason to keep them.  Luke was obviously joining the Devils for good this season, and Nemec will be on the team to start next season, at the very latest.  And it’s not like the cap room was there to keep either Seves or Graves.

Another way to look at it:  did you want Seves at his cap hit for 8 years, and/or Graves at his hit for 6 years?  Would it have made any sense for the Devils to sign them for the money and term that they got elsewhere?

What needs to happen is that overall, the D still here from last season needs to play better.  I don’t disagree that Fitz may need to tweak, and on that front, maybe he needs to explore moving Bahl + other pieces for more of a veteran D.  I don’t see Fitz moving Siegs (whose extension just kicked in this year), Hamilton, Marino, or Luke, so it’s really only Bahl, Miller, or Smith that would be dealt in a D shakeup.  

Agreed it wasn’t a gamble. But one of the biggest disappointments for me has been Kevin Bahl. We really banked on him staying on the level he set during the playoffs. Instead, what we have is a player making a ton of mistakes and looking like he can’t handle the big minutes.

Maybe banking on his continued development was a gamble but who saw this big a regression coming? It wasn’t that much of a gamble.

A big part of why Lindy’s tenure has been successful has been the production of young players but this season guys like Bahl, Mercer, Schmid have taken steps back.

[NJDevs4978]

11 hours ago, jagknife said:

a$$hole did that when they were winning, too. Cause “gotta keep balance out there. Gotta get some of the other guys going.”

also where the fvck has Dougie suddenly gone?

stop trotting out Luke like he’s a rightful heir on the PP1 and get Dougie his spot back.

The power play has been at 35% this year, who cares who’s on PP1 and PP2 when it’s operating at that efficiency? It’s literally the only thing working with this team now - the PK, the defense, the secondary scoring and the goaltending are not, to put it mildly.

Edited November 23, 2023 by NJDevs4978