T-Devs on Thin Ice

[adam85491]

Why would the New Jersey Devils own a semi-pro team with zero plans to develop players? It makes no sense. Players have progressed up the ranks from the ECHL into the big club. Development works.

[maxpower]

Why would the New Jersey Devils own a semi-pro team with zero plans to develop players? It makes no sense. Players have progressed up the ranks from the ECHL into the big club. Development works.

Other than to have an "in" for the arena for the AHL team? You'd have to ask the Devils. Because they're not getting any return out of their investment in Trenton. No worthwhile prospect, other than a goalie who gets squeezed, is going to play in the E.

[Triumph]

Why would the New Jersey Devils own a semi-pro team with zero plans to develop players? It makes no sense. Players have progressed up the ranks from the ECHL into the big club. Development works.

no one who's been even remotely successful for the devils has done this.

the devils' plan was fine, so long as they wanted to continue losing money - if that was their goal, to use trenton to develop players, then that was their prerogative. it didn't really work out.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Triumph

[LousBallsack]

Other than to have an "in" for the arena for the AHL team? You'd have to ask the Devils. Because they're not getting any return out of their investment in Trenton. No worthwhile prospect, other than a goalie who gets squeezed, is going to play in the E.

You mean Brad Mills and Olivier Magnan aren't prospects?!?!?!?

They bought the team out of spite. Think of it as Lou's mildly expensive eff you to the Flyers.

[maxpower]

You mean Brad Mills and Olivier Magnan aren't prospects?!?!?!?

They bought the team out of spite. Think of it as Lou's mildly expensive eff you to the Flyers.

Don't remind me of that. lol. At least Brad Mills had a positive contribution, I guess.

[RowdyFan42]

his point, which you failed to try to understand, was that hockey's minor leagues don't function like baseball, where drafted players move steadily through the ranks. the echl is something else entirely, and the devils trying to use it in this baseball way was part of why the team failed.

Bingo.

Why would the New Jersey Devils own a semi-pro team with zero plans to develop players? It makes no sense. Players have progressed up the ranks from the ECHL into the big club. Development works.

Go back and read Triumph's post. The Devils tried to change the way teams approach development and they failed.

Only a handful of players have gone from the ECHL to the NHL over the life of the league, and most of those were players who didn't fit in the AHL for various reasons. If you're in the ECHL, you're usually on the way out, not on the way up.

[maxpower]

Yeah, it's a cute concept, if you think of it that way (treating it seriously as a AA league), but I mean, out of the multitude of problems, one stands out. At the point the Devils embarked on this, they just weren't deep enough to do it in the first place.

If you're loaded with prospects and ELC's and you think, "well, instead of playing the wheel of healthy scratches, we make an A team and a B team so everyone gets good minutes", it might work, ignoring the fiscal disaster of playing ECHL players NHL ELC downsides... but we were a tad away from being that deep. Considering we didn't have that many good prospects in the AHL!

[SatansDevils]

Sad news to hear.

I liked going to see some Trenton Devils games. It was a nice arena but just in a very bad place with no attractions around that arena. They should move the team to Sayreville or further North like maybe in wayne or even South Mountain Arena. Attendance for sure would be a lot better and the fans would come. Trenton was just a very bad spot there IMO. Everything around that area just looks dead.

[Triumph]

Yeah, it's a cute concept, if you think of it that way (treating it seriously as a AA league), but I mean, out of the multitude of problems, one stands out. At the point the Devils embarked on this, they just weren't deep enough to do it in the first place.

If you're loaded with prospects and ELC's and you think, "well, instead of playing the wheel of healthy scratches, we make an A team and a B team so everyone gets good minutes", it might work, ignoring the fiscal disaster of playing ECHL players NHL ELC downsides... but we were a tad away from being that deep. Considering we didn't have that many good prospects in the AHL!

Devils1985 said earlier that basically the ECHL works with players getting 'called up' to AHL teams, and that's life in the ECHL. It's easy to see how Lou's thinking about talent in the organization would be totally antithetical to this - Lou demands absolute loyalty, whereas these guys just want to play professional hockey for someone, somewhere.

Not to mention that the 50 contract limit prevents this from ever working well. And the fact that the ECHL seems to be lower level than top college conferences and on about the same level as junior hockey, so where's the development going to come? Maybe the idea was that the organization could stash less talented brothers of current players there.

[hystyk28]

Sad news to hear.

They should move the team to Sayreville or further North like maybe in wayne or even South Mountain Arena. Attendance for sure would be a lot better and the fans would come.

The Devils don't exactly pack the place, so I am unsure that moving the team north would be the answer. Also, why would Lou want to compete for the same business on a lot of the same nights. I know that prevented me from attending the T-Devils as often as I liked.

I am sad to see them go. See ya Titans, er Devils.

Any chance the AHL Phantoms fill that arena???

Edited July 6, 2011 by hystyk28

[titans04]

The original owners the Berman's had 10 year lease and were committed to finishing it out. They lost a tin of money with the cup run with travel to Alaska and Florida twice each. Ron Berman the dad was also have major health issues so they were looking to get out. They would have stayed around another season or two. The flyers as Ballsack correctly states passed on buying the team betting on it folding after the Berman agreement ran out. In rides Lou on his white horse full of endless bs promises.

What's worse is 2 seasons ago when the lease was up the Brooks Brothers the new owners went to the county and said they were interested in making a long term commitment to the address area and miraculously Lou and JVB said we're ready to make a 10 commitment. And low and behold now that the phantoms are locked in elsewhere the dirtbags are bailing.

Nothing but empty promises from day one.

For those that said my post last week was baseless what says you? Without the red and black glasses you could see this coming from miles away. They've failed in every minor league market they've squated on.

I do feel awful for Leahy and his staff. Great people that got screwed just like the 200 of is season ticket holders.

[Devils1985]

Here's my take on what they should have done; note that this was impossible as it runs counter to everything Lou wanted to try with this. But here it goes:

Keep it the Titans. They weren't flyer owned; just affiliated. Also affiliated with the Islanders one or more seasons. They had an identity all their own. so I wouldn't flush that down the toilet. As has been noted, the colors already worked. Toss an NJ crest on the shoulder or something if you want.

Don't hijack players and limit them to one upgrade path.

You can still 'grow the brand' by putting some money back into it and hire a good coach, assemble a competitive roster. This would be what Titans fans expect and what they didn't get the last year of Berman's ownership. Invest in it, make sure people know it's the NJ Devils that are doing this cool stuff. Giveaway Devils tickets & signed swag. Advertise on the freakin' radio so they report the scores (there's a reason NJ101.5 reports Thunder scores and never T-Devil scores). Do more to market the team than give STH's free vouchers and get them to bring people.

The way they went into it was pretty much bound to fail on the many levels it did for the reasons already noted in this thread. On ice, not much you can do when you limit guys to one upgrade path. The guys never quit on Kowalsky or Dean even when they so easily could have, and from all accounts they brought guys of good character to town. So...by and large...with their strategy I don't know how much better they could have done on that score.

However on the business side, they rarely marketed the team anywhere. The website was useless and out of date at the beginning. Part of the reason people buy season tickets is for the discount, part is for the little perks. The ticket books for example; it was cool having a printed ticket in it's own book. The same ticket the dude from walkup got? Not so much.

They also never really pushed the NJ Devil angle, which I find the most odd. Oh, we were promised guys coming down the turnpike for signings or meet & greets. Stuff like that. Never happened. Mystified me. Some little kid meets a honest to God NHL player in a Devils uniform and gets to shake his hand may just become a Devils fan no matter what team Dad likes.

Basically, what would I do different? Well, whatever they did with Trenton...I'd do the opposite. Except the mascot. The Titan's mascots were creepy, Scorch was not and he was sometimes the most fun part of the night especially when Reading came to town.

[maxpower]

Well, the business end is not surprising because they don't understand hockey marketing and that they brought in an ECHL guy to improve their marketing says alot.

It's also kind of odd that they didn't use the ECHL guy to improve their minor league marketing, but hey, it's the Devils. I think their 90's mentality floats (yeah, we have hockey, we'll open the doors, maybe) over to the minors, while they have started to understand it doesn't work in the show.

It's just a big question of "why did they do this in the first place?". The only logical reason is that they wanted to protect the building. And I think them quitting on it is a result of them asking themselves the same question and having no real good answer, because as pointed out, the threat to the building is setting up shop somewhere else.

[devilsfan26]

One of the biggest – maybe THE biggest – crowds in T Devil history was the night they retired Scott Bertoli’s jersey. The place was rocking with people chanting…Let’s Go Titans.

Which pretty much says all you need to know right there.

Agreed, being at that game was very nostalgic but it was also sad to see how much the team has fallen in such a short time.

And they botched that too. They had Dano as the MC of the event, someone who has no Titans connection and probably never met Bertoli in his life. It was almost cringe-inducing watching him reading the speech he had written for him. The best part was Dano bolted as soon as it was over and was in Manhattan on Hockey Night Live two hours later.

I feel your pain. I had a partial plan their first year in 99 and drove from Elizabeth for 10 games. We had a blast at the games. Every year up until their cup year I'd hit at least 5-10 games. Weekend games were always sold out, and they added seats above the end goals to accommodate more people and the atmosphere there was the best in the ECHL. I remember hearing it was the most feared building to play in. After big wins people would be in the street outside the arena high-fiving each other, cars would be beeping their horns and it was just an all-around great time. Even more surreal, Devil, Flyer, and Ranger fans would be sitting side-by-side and high-fiving and all rooting for the same team. Their cup run of 2005 kept me sane during the lockout. It's like that cup was a curse or something, because the fall of that franchise that immediately took place after that is just incredible.

Nailed it.

Titans games were an absolute blast, and renaming them the Devils was a total disaster. I have no idea what they were thinking, around 2/3 of the fanbase is Flyers fans and Rangers fans. It was so obvious that calling them the Devils was going to be a critically negative decision unless they put loads of effort into marketing the hell out of the team, and even then they would probably still struggle because there just aren't that many Devils fans in that area willing to go to plenty of minor league games, and no amount of marketing was going to convert enough Rangers fans and Flyers fans to maintain the fanbase the Titans had. How sad. Adam and hurricane must have never been to a Titans game or were too young to really remember just how much better it used to be.

[DevilMinder]

New Jersey Devils

The ECHL’s Trenton Devils will suspend play beginning with the 2011-12 season. The New Jersey Devils are restructuring the organization’s player development system to be more in line with other NHL franchises.

The New Jersey Devils organization would like to thank all of the fans who have supported the Trenton Devils the past five seasons. http://bit.ly/pMu30L

ECHL's Trenton Devils to suspend play

devils.nhl.com

per Devils Facebook page

[LousBallsack]

The New Jersey Devils organization would like to thank all of the fans who have supported the Trenton Devils the past five seasons. http://bit.ly/pMu30L

ECHL's Trenton Devils to suspend play

devils.nhl.com

per Devils Facebook page

How many seasons? 5? Really?

(yes I know they bought the team in '06)

Christ these idiots can't even get this right.

For the sake of Albany's fans I can only hope that the "restructuring" includes selling off that franchise or at the very least a full lobotomy for Lou's kid.

Edited July 7, 2011 by LousBallsack

[adam85491]

Factors I have not read that might have played a part in the failure of Trenton:

1. Philly has gotten better. People in the area that like the flyers would be more inclined to go see an nhl game of a potential cup contender than a middle of the road team (which was more the case several years ago as opposed to today).

2. NJD actually has cheaper prices than Trenton. You can buy tickets on stubhub in the middle of the season for 3 bucks, or hit up the 11 dollar line. If I recall, Trenton's cheapest ticket was 13 dollars, and they were never listed on stubhub.

3. Maybe a stretch, but AC moving killed the rivalry and in turn, some excitement and confidence in the league.

I personally am glad that they chose to rename the squad, but I don't disagree that it perhaps alienated some fans. I think either way, things were going to go downhill unless massive amounts of money and marketing were put into the team.

[Devils1985]

Factors I have not read that might have played a part in the failure of Trenton:

1. Philly has gotten better. People in the area that like the flyers would be more inclined to go see an nhl game of a potential cup contender than a middle of the road team (which was more the case several years ago as opposed to today).

2. NJD actually has cheaper prices than Trenton. You can buy tickets on stubhub in the middle of the season for 3 bucks, or hit up the 11 dollar line. If I recall, Trenton's cheapest ticket was 13 dollars, and they were never listed on stubhub.

3. Maybe a stretch, but AC moving killed the rivalry and in turn, some excitement and confidence in the league.

I personally am glad that they chose to rename the squad, but I don't disagree that it perhaps alienated some fans. I think either way, things were going to go downhill unless massive amounts of money and marketing were put into the team.

My opinion:

1. There's actually not much crossover, ECHL is more affordable family entertainment. The atmosphere is almost as important as the game for a large segment of the attendees - the segment that stopped coming was these people plus a lot of Flyer fans. The people that used to sit in front of us told us when the Devils bought the team they'd stay as long as they didn't call them the Devils. They were true to their word. They also weren't alone. Those specific seats were in fact filled with actual Devil fans, but that was the exception and not the rule; usually they just remained empty.

2. You do have to add in train or parking to that, but that's an interesting point.

3. That definitely hurt. Reading and Elmira were huge rivals too though, but the intrastate rivalry was big.

[titans04]

Florida on top of Alaska was brutal. Then they decided they needed to cut losses and hired a coach with a career .280 winning percentage who proceeded to alienate most anyone left in the room associated with the prior team. He needed to put his own stamp on things, and it failed miserably.

Which turned out to be oddly prophetic…….

even then though the Berman's had enough respect for the fans to fire that jackass and eat his salary even after a 4 game winning streak.

[titans04]

Factors I have not read that might have played a part in the failure of Trenton:

1. Philly has gotten better. People in the area that like the flyers would be more inclined to go see an nhl game of a potential cup contender than a middle of the road team (which was more the case several years ago as opposed to today).

2. NJD actually has cheaper prices than Trenton. You can buy tickets on stubhub in the middle of the season for 3 bucks, or hit up the 11 dollar line. If I recall, Trenton's cheapest ticket was 13 dollars, and they were never listed on stubhub.

3. Maybe a stretch, but AC moving killed the rivalry and in turn, some excitement and confidence in the league.

I personally am glad that they chose to rename the squad, but I don't disagree that it perhaps alienated some fans. I think either way, things were going to go downhill unless massive amounts of money and marketing were put into the team.

I've posted the attendance numbers before and yes they were going down when the Devils took over but they were at league average, the last two/three years they were about half the league average. Come on let's be honest here this isn't a trenton problem look at Utica/Albany1/Lowell and Trenton. Hell in their first year in Albany the attendance dropped significantly. There's a decade long track record of incompetence (sp). The markets come and go but the constant remains the Lamoriello's.

To add onto Devils1985 our section was straight across from his and going back just a couple years it was a section that always had real good numbers, the past two years there were many nights with ~10 people.

This was a overdue visit from the minor league hockeys Dr. Kovorkian, a few years overdue but so easy to see it coming.

Devils1985 is a hardcore Devils fan so for him to be so pissed at the org especially Chris and Lou speaks volumes. Having sat through the destruction of something we were passionate about sucks, but honestly it was just a matter of time. The Devils needed to gtfo.

[SatansDevils]

The Devils don't exactly pack the place, so I am unsure that moving the team north would be the answer. Also, why would Lou want to compete for the same business on a lot of the same nights. I know that prevented me from attending the T-Devils as often as I liked.

I am sad to see them go. See ya Titans, er Devils.

Any chance the AHL Phantoms fill that arena???

Actually the Trenton Devils cannot move anywhere else in the state because I was told they still have a longterm lease there in Trenton and they cannot break that lease to move anywhere else in the state. Just sad to hear.

[Devils1985]

Devils1985 is a hardcore Devils fan so for him to be so pissed at the org especially Chris and Lou speaks volumes. Having sat through the destruction of something we were passionate about sucks, but honestly it was just a matter of time. The Devils needed to gtfo.

What really gets me is I don’t feel they made an honest effort. It seems patently obvious the goal was to cultivate some players for Lowell/Albany and that’s all they invested in. They filled the rest of the roster with sub-ECHL level players, and half assed everything else about it. They spouted ‘paint the town Devil Red’ and then didn’t supply the paint, and only a few dollar store brushes.

Honestly I felt they were walking dead when they canned the STH books. Season ticket holders are the roots of the franchise, and when you basically tell them ‘we’re not really going to spend money to try and retain you’ then it’s pretty clear they’re not going to spend money anywhere else either. Then they got the guy who used to do PA for the Phantoms, and he lasted something like two games before bailing. Even the front office the last couple years…I got the distinct feeling they lost the will to fight knowing they had no real say in the direction the team was going.

The demise of the Trenton Devils is many things, but surprising isn’t one of them for anyone who was paying attention.

I gotta say…I feel like I got bent over by my favorite team. I wouldn’t feel this way if I thought they made an honest effort to make Trenton work. In the very very beginning, I think they did. But it didn’t last long at all, and every year they circled the wagons a little more and did a little less. Seriously, if they had pushed the NJ Devils more, made an effort to show they knew we were here and cared…if it still didn’t work then I could at least point to those things as evidence they tried stuff.

But they didn’t really try anything.

[skeeter]

even then though the Berman's had enough respect for the fans to fire that jackass and eat his salary even after a 4 game winning streak.

Can you or someone go into a little more detail about this guy? I have seen various things over the years referring to McKay or whatever his name is but don't know the real story here.

[Marv4Life]

Come on let's be honest here this isn't a trenton problem look at Utica/Albany1/Lowell and Trenton. Hell in their first year in Albany the attendance dropped significantly. There's a decade long track record of incompetence (sp). The markets come and go but the constant remains the Lamoriello's.

If that's the case then people need to stop with this "They played in Flyer Country" BS. Mercer County is NOT "Flyer Country". It's not even in South Jersey. You mean to tell me Devils fans boarding in Hamilton and Princeton Junction heading up to the games were Flyer fans in disguise? lol.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Marv4Life

[DevsMan84]

If that's the case then people need to stop with this "They played in Flyer Country" BS. Mercer County is NOT "Flyer Country". It's not even in South Jersey. You mean to tell me Devils fans boarding in Hamilton and Princeton Junction heading up to the games were Flyer fans in disguise? lol.

I live not far away from Princeton and when I go to the bars around there, they only have Flyers on TV and when you ask them to change it to the Devils, you hear complaints. There are Devils fans down there but Princeton alone is a good 70/30 Flyers to Devils fan ratio based on what I see.