Official "Marty Watch" Thread

[squishyx]

Hope you're not serious about this, because this is about as dumb, selfish, and unappreciative as it gets.  Why some Devils fans insist on taking Marty's desire to keep playing as some kind of personal insult is baffling.  The guy never even fvcking announced that he was retiring (and even if he had, many former players have been known to change their minds).  It stood to reason that he might - GASP! - decide to play again if some team gave him the opportunity.

Sure, put words in my mouth. 

 

I am saying it's a waste if it was all for 6 games. Not anything about what he owes me, or a personal insult or what he should do with his career, or being unappreciative.

it's about the 6 games.

[Neb00rs]

Rather, there will always be a piece of me now that sighs a little on the inside when I hear his name because he is no longer a "Devils only" legend. 

 

See but this is just completely ludicrous.

 

And really? You will sigh when you hear his name for what you yourself admit is six 'meaningless' games after the twenty years of Devils hockey you got from him? That is really silly tbh.

 

The Nieds comparison is just pure malarkey. Apples and oranges.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Neb00rs

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Sure, put words in my mouth. 

 

I am saying it's a waste if it was all for 6 games. Not anything about what he owes me, or a personal insult or what he should do with his career, or being unappreciative.

it's about the 6 games.

 

First, it was seven games.  Five starts and two relief appearances.  Amounted to about 356 minutes total. 

 

Who is anyone to suggest that this was a waste, if it's what Marty wanted?  Like Neb00rs alludes to...the guy gave you 99.99% of his Hall-Of-Fame career, and all of his best years and moments.  Played FAR more games in goal for one team than anyone else.  And you're actually going to let what amounts to 356 minutes (or slightly more, depending on what happens) somehow become a black mark on all of that?  I'm sorry, but that is an incredibly idiotic way to look at it.  If Marty needed this for whatever his reasons and someone was willing to give it to him, good for him.   

 

Though I would never want the Devils to explore ever bringing him back in any capacity, there's one exception...I wouldn't mind seeing him signed to a one-day contract to play April 7.  It's against the Rangers and it's the Devils' final home game of the season.  Provided that he knows for sure that he is never going to play in the NHL again, I think it'd be a cool way for him to go out...as a Devil...kind of like when players sign one-day symbolic contracts and then retire, but he'd actually play one game.  I don't delude myself into thinking that this would ever happen (and I'm sure many fans would object to it), but I do think it'd be kind of fun.    

[squishyx]

See but this is just completely ludicrous.

 

And really? You will sigh when you hear his name for what you yourself admit is six 'meaningless' games after the twenty years of Devils hockey you got from him? That is really silly tbh.

 

The Nieds comparison is just pure malarkey. Apples and oranges.

 

First, it was seven games.  Five starts and two relief appearances.  Amounted to about 356 minutes total. 

 

Who is anyone to suggest that this was a waste, if it's what Marty wanted?  Like Neb00rs alludes to...the guy gave you 99.99% of his Hall-Of-Fame career, and all of his best years and moments.  Played FAR more games in goal for one team than anyone else.  And you're actually going to let what amounts to 356 minutes (or slightly more, depending on what happens) somehow become a black mark on all of that?  I'm sorry, but that is an incredibly idiotic way to look at it.  If Marty needed this for whatever his reasons and someone was willing to give it to him, good for him.   

 

You are right, seven. I am immensely proud of what Marty has done with a Devils jersey, and it's entirely possible to have the utmost respect and appreciation for someone and still be disappointed in their decision. 

 

As to what I bolded..what if Marty joined the Rangers? Would you be sitting here telling people that we should just shut up and accept whatever he decides? that we aren't allowed to have opinions?

http://i.imgur.com/WHefoW8.png

That last line makes me sad; if it doesn't for you, that's fine. I am not interested in trying to persuade anyone other wise. Along with all the great things I will recall about Marty, I am also going to remember the way he went out. His way, as you stated, but not in a Devils jersey.

 

 

Though I would never want the Devils to explore ever bringing him back in any capacity, there's one exception...I wouldn't mind seeing him signed to a one-day contract to play April 7.  It's against the Rangers and it's the Devils' final home game of the season.  Provided that he knows for sure that he is never going to play in the NHL again, I think it'd be a cool way for him to go out...as a Devil...kind of like when players sign one-day symbolic contracts and then retire, but he'd actually play one game.  I don't delude myself into thinking that this would ever happen (and I'm sure many fans would object to it), but I do think it'd be kind of fun.    

 

I think that would be fitting, albeit like you said, unlikely.

[Jerzey]

Most of the time I need to be reminded that Gretzky played for the Blues. I think in the long run almost everything about this season will be forgettable unless we win the draft lottery.  

Edited January 16, 2015 by Jerzey Devil

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

You are right, seven. I am immensely proud of what Marty has done with a Devils jersey, and it's entirely possible to have the utmost respect and appreciation for someone and still be disappointed in their decision. 

 

As to what I bolded..what if Marty joined the Rangers? Would you be sitting here telling people that we should just shut up and accept whatever he decides? that we aren't allowed to have opinions?

http://i.imgur.com/WHefoW8.png

That last line makes me sad; if it doesn't for you, that's fine. I am not interested in trying to persuade anyone other wise. Along with all the great things I will recall about Marty, I am also going to remember the way he went out. His way, as you stated, but not in a Devils jersey.

 

 

I think that would be fitting, albeit like you said, unlikely.

 

The bolded would never happen.  Marty made it clear in his book that he hates the Rangers (and that Lou hates them even more).   

 

But yeah, I think if there's a Devils player who has fully earned the right to not have anyone disparage his career choices after no longer being a Devil, or state that such choices "tarnish" his Devils career, it's Marty. 

[squishyx]

The bolded would never happen.  Marty made it clear in his book that he hates the Rangers (and that Lou hates them even more).   

but to be clear. If he did, you are saying you would unequivocally have no problems with it, because after all it's his decision and his alone and it would in no way tarnish the image of him if he did.

right?

[Beezer34]

It's as silly to call out someone for their feeling(s), as telling a person their opinion is wrong. This is sports.. you're going to have a wide range of emotion. That's what makes a fan a fan. Their passion for the game\team\player.

If a Devils fan says: "No matter where Marty plays, it will never change my point of view of him." --that's their prerogative. After over 20 years, they have every right to feel that way.. and shouldn't be second-guessed from their fellow-fans. However, if a fan says: "This sucks. I wanted Brodeur to go out like Jeter.. not Favre" --they have every right to feel that way too. With a HOF career like Marty's (and the loyalty to boot) It is completely fair to be bummed out that it didn't end like Mariano. --and calling someone's POV "dumb, stupid, selfish, foolish, silly, etc" is just that.. silly.

 

I don't think mentioning Farve helps the cause..that was textbook "how not to retire" lol.

 

..this is a very good point. Of course it's harder for people to look back 40 years ago and say; "Do you remember Namath on the Rams?" Since the cable\digital age, it's easier for people to keep track of athletes.. mainly because, they're whereabouts\updates are broadcasted everywhere, and constantly in your face. You know about them through your work computers, the bottomline on your TV's. You get twitter updates on your smartphone. It's not just one form of media anymore like it was in the 60's & 70's, when you were tied to a newspaper. Back then it was very difficulty to say: "oh yeah, Bobby Orr was a Blackhawk." But since multi-media broke out in 2000.. Emmit Smith on the Cardinals, Peyton on the Broncos, Brodeur on the Blues, Jordan on the Wizards, Favre with Minnesota.. yeah, fans remember this. And they will continue to remember.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Beezer34

[Beezer34]

You all are too emotional. The man wanted to extend his career, can't fault him for that.

 

Like everything, you're getting two extreme POV's here. The Angry-Marty crowd preaching: "This changes everything.. let's burn his jersey's" -- and the Pro-Marty's saying: "This changes nothing.. no one will ever remember 6 games"  The reality is, it rests somewhere in the middle. No one will boo Brodeur when he returns to retire his number.. but equally, no one will forget how it ended. Brodeur is in a totally different class than other athletes who have retired with a different jersey.. mainly because, he's argued as the greatest ever. The greater the player, the more their career is emphasized. Many fans may indeed forget that Modano retired with the Redwings. But as great as Mike Modano was, he's not considered the greatest ever at his position. Most hockey fans know that Gretzky played in St. Louis. Or that Jordan retired a Wizard. Montana with KC. Again.. this is due to: Montana, Gretzky, Jordan.. being widely considered the greatest ever in their class. Thus: Brodeur's short time in St. Louis, will be more of a focal point, than Lindros with Dallas.

 

However.. to your point of "wanting to extend his career" --for 6 starts though??  I think that's what bothers people the most.

..there is only 1 goalie in the history of the sport, who went into the Hall of Fame having played for one team. I think fans may've been at peace with Brodeur giving that up had he found a team where he played, say, 15-20 games. But 6 starts?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

It's as silly to call out someone for their feeling(s), as telling a person their opinion is wrong. This is sports.. you're going to have a wide range of emotion. That's what makes a fan a fan. Their passion for the game\team\player.

If a Devils fan says: "No matter where Marty plays, it will never change my point of view of him." --that's their prerogative. After over 20 years, they have every right to feel that way.. and shouldn't be second-guessed from their fellow-fans. However, if a fan says: "This sucks. I wanted Brodeur to go out like Jeter.. not Favre" --they have every right to feel that way too. With a HOF career like Marty's (and the loyalty to boot) It is completely fair to be bummed out that it didn't end like Mariano. --and calling someone's POV "dumb, stupid, selfish, foolish, silly, etc" is just that.. silly.

 

 

..this is a very good point. Of course it's harder for people to look back 40 years ago and say; "Do you remember Namath on the Rams?" Since the cable\digital age, it's easier for people to keep track of athletes.. mainly because, they're whereabouts\updates are broadcasted everywhere, and constantly in your face. You know about them through your work computers, the bottomline on your TV's. You get twitter updates on your smartphone. It's not just one form of media anymore like it was in the 60's & 70's, when you were tied to a newspaper. Back then it was very difficulty to say: "oh yeah, Bobby Orr was a Blackhawk." But since multi-media broke out in 2000.. Emmit Smith on the Cardinals, Peyton on the Broncos, Brodeur on the Blues, Jordan on the Wizards, Favre with Minnesota.. yeah, fans remember this. And they will continue to remember.

 

On the first point...I can fully understand Devils fans being bummed that Marty didn't spend every last minute as a Devil.  But I think to use words like "tarnish" is just wrong, and yes, a bit dumb. 

 

On the second (regarding who played for what "not the team he'll be celebrated for" at the end)...I think it really depends on how much each player has left in his tank, and many other circumstances...it's very much a case-by-case thing.  To use some of your examples:

 

Emmitt Smith:  Was still putting up respectable (but declining) numbers at the end for Dallas, but the Cowboys had gone 5-11 in three straight seasons and needed to rebuild.  Emmitt obviously thought he still had something left and wanted to keep playing, and after a rough first season with the Cards, had a respectable second season with Arizona similar to his final Cowboy season, before signing a non-playing contract with Dallas so he could retire a Cowboy.  Sure, people might remember this a little, but with all he accomplished with the Cowboys, I doubt anyone makes much out of his Cardinal career. 

 

Peyton Manning:  Classic perfect storm scenario.  After having neck surgery, it's determined that he also needs spinal fusion surgery.  No one can be sure if he will ever be an effective player again, let alone even be able to play at all.  A seemingly can't-miss QB in Andrew Luck is likely going to be the first pick in the draft.  The Colts know they're probably a playoff longshot with their current talent level, so instead of doing everything they can to try to compete, they basically take a mulligan on the season.  They play badly enough to land Luck.  Peyton's still a question mark, and not terribly young anymore, and there's absolutely no way Luck and Manning belong on the same team, so the Colts deal him to the Broncos.  Peyton basically plays like Peyton Plus for a while.  Of course everyone will remember this run...guy put up some monster numbers until about Week 8 of this season, and played in his third Super Bowl.  Though the time spent with each team is radically different, this reminds me a little of Patrick Roy, in that Peyton went to another team and flourished (though he appears to be very quickly running out of steam).

 

Martin Brodeur:  We know the particulars here.  Lou does the right thing and realizes, regardless of Marty's level of play (which was clearly declining), that the Devils are going to have to get someone to follow Marty ASAP, and the franchise doesn't appear to have that kind of player anywhere in their system.  After one year of Cory Schneider and Brodeur attempting to coexist (painfully, for everyone involved), it was clear that the Devils had no choice but to say goodbye to a not-what-he-was-and-only-getting-worse Marty, who for all his strong points, can't seem to fully accept that he is Martin Brodeur in name only.  He still thinks he can play somewhere (not one team signing him in the offseason suggests that most in the NHL are skeptical), and finally gets a shot with the Blues, where he plays, well, pretty much like the old Brodeur and not like the Brodeur of old.  As in below-average.  I think Devils fans won't really think much about this as time goes on...for one, he simply didn't play in very many games...would've been different if he had started the season with the Blues, gotten into 20+ games and been at least league-average in them.  For another, his overall level of play pretty much confirmed what most were thinking...that he didn't really have anything left and that, even though it would've been nice to see all of his numbers come with the Devils, that bringing him back in 2014-15 was not a feasible option on any level, and with Marty never officially retiring, he was likely going to jump at the opportunity to play if he got one.

 

You are right Beez, in that Marty's Blues "career", no matter how short or meh, will evoke some emotions.  I feel a little sadness myself, but it has nothing to do with the Devils or Blues...I think it was Tri who posted a video of Marty as a Blue basically having zero lateral movement and getting eaten alive on a goal, and that was tough to watch.  It's not so much that he played with another team, as much as it is that he played at all.  Like I've always maintained, his right if that's what he wants (and someone's willing to give him that chance), and what he did as a Devil is so special that it was take something far more significant than seven games played with the Blues for any of his Devils accomplishments to ever be tarnished.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Neb00rs]

Though I would never want the Devils to explore ever bringing him back in any capacity, there's one exception...I wouldn't mind seeing him signed to a one-day contract to play April 7.  It's against the Rangers and it's the Devils' final home game of the season.  Provided that he knows for sure that he is never going to play in the NHL again, I think it'd be a cool way for him to go out...as a Devil...kind of like when players sign one-day symbolic contracts and then retire, but he'd actually play one game.  I don't delude myself into thinking that this would ever happen (and I'm sure many fans would object to it), but I do think it'd be kind of fun.    

 

I had the same thought exactly. It would be unacceptable if the team was playoff bound but with the current state of affairs, it would be a nice way to end a miserable season.

 

but to be clear. If he did, you are saying you would unequivocally have no problems with it, because after all it's his decision and his alone and it would in no way tarnish the image of him if he did.

right?

 

I can't understand this comparison at all. CR never said that "There is NO choice that Marty could ever make" that could offend him. He said that Marty only needs to be worried about what HE wants to do, not what you want and that after 20 years of HOF hockey, it's pretty silly to be THAT upset after six games of hockey for the St. Louis Blues.

[Neb00rs]

You are right Beez, in that Marty's Blues "career", no matter how short or meh, will evoke some emotions.  I feel a little sadness myself, but it has nothing to do with the Devils or Blues...I think it was Tri who posted a video of Marty as a Blue basically having zero lateral movement and getting eaten alive on a goal, and that was tough to watch.  It's not so much that he played with another team, as much as it is that he played at all.  Like I've always maintained, his right if that's what he wants (and someone's willing to give him that chance), and what he did as a Devil is so special that it was take something far more significant than seven games played with the Blues for any of his Devils accomplishments to ever be tarnished.

 

Yeah, for me it's harder to deal with him performing poorly in St. Louis than anything else. It makes me sad, but it is something I will soon forget.

[MadDog2020]

Marty may never admit it publicly, but I think once he's retired for a while and has had time to reflect on his career, he'll regret the way he went out. I think he let his ego get the best of him.

[devlman]

Marty may never admit it publicly, but I think once he's retired for a while and has had time to reflect on his career, he'll regret the way he went out. I think he let his ego get the best of him.

 

Agreed. And its the fact that hes going out in such a whimper, practically being kicked out of the league. 6 games is indicative of that. Thats why people say his legacy loses a lot of its luster.

[SS#4-Life]

Marty may never admit it publicly, but I think once he's retired for a while and has had time to reflect on his career, he'll regret the way he went out. I think he let his ego get the best of him.

in a nutshell

[Beezer34]

Marty may never admit it publicly, but I think once he's retired for a while and has had time to reflect on his career, he'll regret the way he went out. I think he let his ego get the best of him.

 

Bingo. He'll look back and realize (if he doesn't already) the way it ended wasn't worth pushing the wins record further and further. To many.. going out, is just as important as how you come in.

Could Patrick Roy have hung around a little longer to win the 40 some-odd games he needed to attain 600? --certainly. But instead he went out, as a starter, two years removed from winning the Stanley Cup\Conn Smythe, with a 2.18 GAA -- .920 Sv%, at 37 years of age, off a season winning 35 games. Brodeur is ended it @ 43 (in four months) with a .899 Sv%, and the rest of the league having to tell him; it's over. Not quite the impedimenta you want to take with you on your way into the sunset.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

What's interesting re: Roy was apparently it wasn't his losing any physical skills that made him retire (he clearly still had it)...it was his intensity and emotions that simply became too much for him.  Marty's always been much more laid-back by comparison (though he's snapped here and there too). 

 

If this is the end for Marty, at least he won't always wonder "What if?", re: whether he had anything left or not.  Maybe it was simply a case of him needing to know that for sure.  But hopefully, he realizes now that he really doesn't have much, if anything.   

[squishyx]

I can't understand this comparison at all. CR never said that "There is NO choice that Marty could ever make" that could offend him. He said that Marty only needs to be worried about what HE wants to do, not what you want and that after 20 years of HOF hockey, it's pretty silly to be THAT upset after six games of hockey for the St. Louis Blues.

Oh wow, thanks. All this time I was under the impression that Marty had to personally consult me before making his career choices. Thanks for the enlightenment.   

He obviously can do whatever he wants with his career, just like I can have an opinion on his choices. It's disappointing, not earth shattering. No one is pretending that Marty has to do what we want him to do, but actions have consequences.

And if your argument in this thread has been "it's his career and he just wants to play hockey and those who don't support him are  [dumb | selfish | silly | unappreciative | personally insulted |  ludicrous ] and the idea of him playing for the Rangers makes you go "well that would be different" then you are a damn hypocrite.

 

[EdgeControl]

Since I am all for losing as many games as possible this year, I'd have no problem bringing marty back and giving him as many chances to win 9 more games for his 700, then one last game for farewell

[BostonNala370]

Since I am all for losing as many games as possible this year, I'd have no problem bringing marty back and giving him as many chances to win 9 more games for his 700, then one last game for farewell

Agree but Lou wouldn't do that because Lou would be run out of town

[SterioDesign]

Agree but Lou wouldn't do that because Lou would be run out of town

 

Lou did enough to deserve to be run out of town and it never happened so i dont see a problem there

[Neb00rs]

Oh wow, thanks. All this time I was under the impression that Marty had to personally consult me before making his career choices. Thanks for the enlightenment.   

He obviously can do whatever he wants with his career, just like I can have an opinion on his choices. It's disappointing, not earth shattering. No one is pretending that Marty has to do what we want him to do, but actions have consequences.

And if your argument in this thread has been "it's his career and he just wants to play hockey and those who don't support him are  [dumb | selfish | silly | unappreciative | personally insulted |  ludicrous ] and the idea of him playing for the Rangers makes you go "well that would be different" then you are a damn hypocrite.

 

I NEVER called you 'silly' for not supporting Marty signing somewhere else and nor did anyone else. That is a complete distortion of my argument. I am calling you, yes silly, for saying that his legacy/Devils-only legacy is tarnished for playing with the Blues.

 

You also certainly seem like you think he should be worried about what you think what with your statement 'actions have consequences.' 

 

You are talking about him like you own him.

 

Comparing any of this to Marty signing with the Devils' most hated rival is ludicrous and not worthy of engagement.  

Edited January 16, 2015 by Neb00rs

[devlman]

 

You also certainly seem like you think he should be worried about what you think what with your statement 'actions have consequences.' 

 

 

  what? Thats the conclusion you drew from his statement? I dont think anyone implied that Marty should have personally consulted fans.

[Neb00rs]

  what? Thats the conclusion you drew from his statement? I dont think anyone implied that Marty should have personally consulted fans.

 

I think you misunderstood the point. Let's put it this way: what are these so-called 'consequences'?

[devlman]

I think you misunderstood the point. Let's put it this way: what are these so-called 'consequences'?

 

The only intangible, non-financial consequences at play here relate to his legacy. There's the legacy Marty, his peers and family have of him, and the legacy hockey fans will have of him. I'd say this thread is debating the latter. The latter probably doesnt matter to Marty, but it can matter to fans who like to see as clean and as pristine a career for their favorite players as possible.