DevsMan84 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, devlman said: Firstly, It’s not my job to go give you reports. Follow the off-season next time. We don’t have many pieces to make deals anyway. Secondly, i gave you three who we are pretty certain didn’t want to come here. Again, if you want to criticize Shero on November 9 for having faith in Zacha, not forseeing Bratt’s freak injury by not signing the overrated and often-injured Statsny then you’re just someone who wants to complain to complain. Over the last 5 seasons he has averaged 71 GP and about 57 points per 82GP. Last year he played 82 games and scored 53 points and would have placed second on our team scoring. He is injured now, but I don't think he is that injury prone (or at least at a Cammalleri-like level) nor do I think he is overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Also, let me add I am tired of people using the excuse that we "refused to overpay" for a free agent. That's how free agency works, if you want to get the best guy, you have to pay them and take the bad years with the good. I think we should try it every once in a while, we might like it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said: Statsny would immediately be our second best player. Ok so over the off-season you would have signed Statsny and been fine with Zacha being the fourth line center for the year. Odd considering how defensive you are about giving Zacha the chance to play and develop. But ok if that’s your position, great...but Shero’s approach to give Zacha a chance is only a bad one in hindsight. Can’t fault him for that. Let’s see what he does to fix it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: Over the last 5 seasons he has averaged 71 GP and about 57 points per 82GP. Last year he played 82 games and scored 53 points and would have placed second on our team scoring. He is injured now, but I don't think he is that injury prone (or at least at a Cammalleri-like level) nor do I think he is overrated. He’s a good player but 53-57 ppg isn’t anything to write home about and spend $6 mill on, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 32 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Also, let me add I am tired of people using the excuse that we "refused to overpay" for a free agent. That's how free agency works, if you want to get the best guy, you have to pay them and take the bad years with the good. I think we should try it every once in a while, we might like it. I don't think Shero is opposed to overpaying in FA, but I think he'll be very selective in who he's willing to do that for. Had Tavares or Carlson been available (or were at all interested in coming here) I think he would've taken the leap in a heartbeat. Seems like there's a camp forming that's decided that the players already here weren't capable of improvement or growth (in spite of several cases that suggested there could be) and that the ONLY way the 2018-19 Devils could've gotten better was to have gone outside the organization. After thirteen games. I just don't get this viewpoint. Or the inability to give Shero any benefit of the doubt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, devlman said: He’s a good player but 53-57 ppg isn’t anything to write home about and spend $6 mill on, imo. Don't tell Travis Zajac that, he'll kill himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said: I think Zacha should've gotten a chance, but that chance didn't have to come on the 2nd line and it didn't have to come as a center. And I think if Shero was going into this season saying "we don't need a 2nd line Center, we have Zacha" that's ludicrous, even from a staunchy Zacha supporter. Kyle Palmieri's never broken 57 points and he's signed at, what, 4.5m? Statsny averages 65 points per 82 games played and is an excellent defensive forward. You pay a little extra for free agents. That's what you do. And -- again -- he's just one of the many options Shero had to make this team better. I'm disappointed he didn't. How do you know he didn’t investigate those options? There’s far more evidence based on his track record of signings/trades/comments throughout his career to suggest those options were explored and didn’t happen for a good reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 hours ago, mfitz804 said: Also, let me add I am tired of people using the excuse that we "refused to overpay" for a free agent. That's how free agency works, if you want to get the best guy, you have to pay them and take the bad years with the good. I think we should try it every once in a while, we might like it. or we might not. see: Rolston, Brian; Cammalleri, Mike; Lovejoy, Ben, Volchenkov, Anton, etc... As a whole, the Devils have not been terribly successful of having a UFA signing of any magnitude be successful. Frankly, most teams do not see even 80% of the value of a large UFA signing. How do you win in this league? Draft superstar/generational player(s) and supplement them most often with trades. Other than Hossa, look at the teams that have been really successful in the league over the last 10 years and show me what UFA signing caused their success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, sundstrom said: Other than Hossa, look at the teams that have been really successful in the league over the last 10 years and show me what UFA signing caused their success. Chara going to Boston is the only one that made a major difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Chara going to Boston is the only one that made a major difference. Hossa in Chicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: Hossa in Chicago 35 minutes ago, sundstrom said: Other than Hossa, look at the teams that have been really successful in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Chara going to Boston is the only one that made a major difference. i agree - and that was 14 years ago. 14 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: Hossa in Chicago as already mentioned. and hossa took a team with generational talents to the next level. so that's two. of probably 30 major UFA signings where players went to a new team. you can't have the red wings of old (that still had plenty of homegrown talent) when they signed everybody in a cap-league. again - you have to draft a winner and supplement it with trades. that's what the devils are trying to do. they got Nico. they traded for palms and hall. butcher, even for his current warts, looks to be a foundational piece. zacha and mcleod looking like nothing doesn't help. getting bratt, smith, walsh, davies, boqvist, anderson, studenic, talvate and zetterlund to hit in some sort of fashion would go a long way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0asterleav1ns Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I would have liked De Haan but that's about it. Look at recent FA signings around the league.... how many have worked out? Not many. Wouldn't want JVR for the contract the Flyers gave him. Ditto Stastny. These guys are both hurt right now aren't they? Off the top of my head look at the Okposo contract. Karl Alzner. James Neal. Leo Komarov. John Moore ( although from what ive read hes been decent for Boston, go figure). Jack Johnson. The list of fa signings that work out is WAY shorter than the list that dont. You have to overpay in FA and its almost always never worth it unless you are right on the edge of a cup. The devil's aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, sundstrom said: or we might not. see: Rolston, Brian; Cammalleri, Mike; Lovejoy, Ben, Volchenkov, Anton, etc... As a whole, the Devils have not been terribly successful of having a UFA signing of any magnitude be successful. Frankly, most teams do not see even 80% of the value of a large UFA signing. How do you win in this league? Draft superstar/generational player(s) and supplement them most often with trades. Other than Hossa, look at the teams that have been really successful in the league over the last 10 years and show me what UFA signing caused their success. So if you failed to draft superstars and generational players, you just give up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 58 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: So if you failed to draft superstars and generational players, you just give up? That's not what I got out of his post. Give up? No. It isn't very smart to just throw money around and hope for the best either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, mfitz804 said: So if you failed to draft superstars and generational players, you just give up? no - you keep trying to draft them. and that's not really the point anyway. this stemmed from the argument that Ray is doing a bad job because Zacha busted as a 2C and the devils are using Seney as a "2nd line center" (which isn't true - Zajac is 2C for better or worse) and he should have done more in free agency. triumph has posted about this far more eloquently that I am stating, but signing UFA's to big money deals is often a fools errand and the absolute wrong way to go about building a winner in the NHL. it cannot be any clearer over the last 10+ years. generational talent wins. look at the best teams in the league over the last 10 years: chicago - drafted the entire core over 5 years of sh!tty teams and suplimented with Hossa pittsburgh - crosby/malkin/letang/fleury/murray - traded for kessel (i'll squint and give you paul martin maybe as a solid UFA sign that helped with one of the cup wins) nashville - drafted their entire defense core and traded high picks for johannsen and forsberg while dealing a HOF'er (drafted) for another HOF'er. la - drafted doughty/kopitar/martinez/tifolli/quick - traded for carter boston - signed Chara to max contract at literal infancy of current cap-league and made one of two successful UFA signings because an obvious HOF'er chose them over other teams. drafted everyone else - survived trading away top 15 forward in seguin and top 20 forward in kessel winnepeg - drafted core players and traded for the others (wheeler/byfuglien) san jose - drafted pavelski/couture, traded for thornton. if you want me to give you e. kane as UFA, i suppose i'll allow it but that's just this year. tampa - all drafted and traded for see where I'm going with this? the biggest test case for throw a ton of money at UFA's is minnesotta. yes they got parise and suter but they haven't been out of the first round and they have never been one of the top teams in the league with those guys. they've been good sure - but those contracts will kill them for 5 or 6 years. again - don't kill ray for not throwing good money at mediocre players that don't move the needle. Edited November 9, 2018 by sundstrom 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 51 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: That's not what I got out of his post. Give up? No. It isn't very smart to just throw money around and hope for the best either. That’s how you become the late 90’s/early 2000’s Rags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 56 minutes ago, sundstrom said: (which isn't true - Zajac is 2C for better or worse) Maybe in the AHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBallofHate Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 hours ago, sundstrom said: pittsburgh - crosby/malkin/letang/fleury/murray - traded for kessel (i'll squint and give you paul martin maybe as a solid UFA sign that helped with one of the cup wins) Unless I'm having a brain fart, I don't think Paul Martin ever won a Cup with Pitt... to further your point 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 So why does anyone bother signing free agents? Just let them retire if they can’t come to terms with their original team and do away with free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 hours ago, mfitz804 said: So why does anyone bother signing free agents? Just let them retire if they can’t come to terms with their original team and do away with free agency. The same reason people buy lottery tickets. What if...? And a good free agent can compliment a team for sure. You just need some kind of core already in place most of the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said: The same reason people buy lottery tickets. What if...? And a good free agent can compliment a team for sure. You just need some kind of core already in place most of the time But if guys on a message board know you can’t win by signing free agents, why don’t NHL GM’s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: But if guys on a message board know you can’t win by signing free agents, why don’t NHL GM’s? My guess would be pressure to DO something. And obviously GMs know way more than we do, but if you look at the last 10-15 cup teams, I'm betting almost all of their core was drafted or traded for, and free agents complimented that. Free agency surely has a place, I just feel it's not the absolute solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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