GDT: Devil's @ Sens 7:30, MSG+

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I would think Ray waits it out a little longer before making a decision regarding Hynes, but the wrench in all this is that Q is now out there.  He will be scooped up pretty quickly and I wonder if that forces Ray to make a decision quicker than what he would like.

I think the availability of Q could definitely pull in the timetable.  I also think if something did happen, this is one of those instances where the PLAYERS really have to be the ones to look at themselves in the mirror.  I think Hynes is trying like hell to get this team righted. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDfan1711]

13 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I think he’s been bad after a somewhat promising start to the season. He doesn’t belong on a 1st pairing. Even Vatanen looks to have regressed a bit playing with him. 

Yeah, I wouldn't put him on the 1st line either, he's pretty young, but I think he's a perfectly fine 2nd or 3rd line guy.  I don't seem him get exposed too much.  He's not the fastest in the world, but he's a pretty decent stay-at-home defender in my opinion, and he finds the net every once in a while too.  I think he's a better version of Lovejoy, really. 

[devlman]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Dea, Seney, Rooney, and Anderson are all new, so I don't really think it's fair to blame it all on them and label them as lower tier players who shouldn't be on the team.  At least not yet.  And what's wrong with Mueller?  I think he's played fine defensively.  

No, they are lower tier players. A few of them may have bright futures but right now we are relying on too many of them. Mueller is fine but he went from 7th defenseman to top pairing d-man, which is asking a lot for him not to have any bumps in the road. We are trying to be a playoff team here and are asking a lot from so many unproven guys.

[devlman]

There no way Hynes gets fired for any of this. He’s one of the best in the league and working with scraps and everyone knows this.

[SterioDesign]

2 hours ago, Satans Hockey said:

I don't know the stats but the team takes way too many offensive zone penalties, drives me absolutely crazy. 

when i checked the other we had the most penalties per game played. we were lower in the penalties columns cause we had like 4-5 game less than a bunch of teams but we were the only team above 5 penalties per game average

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

 3.5 is a huge difference from 2.2  

The 2.2 was a 5 game period. You can't say from that "we don't score for Cory". Too small of a sample size. 

[NJDfan1711]

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

The 2.2 was a 5 game period. You can't say from that "we don't score for Cory". Too small of a sample size. 

Fair enough.  I'm gonna check on the previous season now since I have some time.

[Devs3cups]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

So I guess "look at that stats" was just a catch phrase with no actual bearing on the situation outside of a 5 game period? lol

Like I said, its nonsense that people say that has no basis in actual fact. 

Yesterday while I was watching TSN, they showed a stat that showed the goalies with at least 100 games played in the last 5 years with the less goal support. Cory was the 1st on the list with his team scoring 2.19 goals per game. I actually posted about it during the game. Take it for what it’s worth I guess.

[Devs3cups]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Haha, well not exactly.  I mean, I'm not sure when people started saying it, but if they started saying it around February of last year, then it's absolutely true. 3.5 is a huge difference from 2.2  Especially in today's NHL.   I'll try to look up the previous year and see if it supports the theory.

TSN discussed it during the game last night. Look at my post just above  

[NJDfan1711]

8 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The 2.2 was a 5 game period. You can't say from that "we don't score for Cory". Too small of a sample size. 

I just did a quick rundown again, so give or take a game or two that I may have missed again due to one guy being pulled here and there, but here it is:

2016-17 season.  Schneider played 57 games, and we scored 126 goals, for a 2.21 average.  Kinkaid played the other 24 (I know that's 81 and I'm missing a game), we scored 55 goals, for an average of 2.29.  

Not a huge difference, so basically we didn't score much for either goal, but the point remains that Cory doesn't get a whole lot of goal support.  Going back to our previous conversation about this being deliberate I know, I fully agree it's not intentional at all, but the stats seem to support it, at least a little bit.

[NJDfan1711]

3 minutes ago, Devs3cups said:

Yesterday while I was watching TSN, they showed a stat that showed the goalies with at least 100 games played in the last 5 years with the less goal support. Cory was the 1st on the list with his team scoring 2.19 goals per game. I actually posted about it during the game. Take it for what it’s worth I guess.

 

1 minute ago, Devs3cups said:

TSN discussed it during the game last night. Look at my post just above  

Damnit, wish I would've known that before doing all that work lol.  BUT...at least my numbers were pretty spot on!   I came up with 2.20/2.21 pretty quickly, and they said 2.19.  Not bad.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Which marquee players?  What did you want to give up for them?  How many of them actually wanted to come here?  Not every summer is going to be full of splashy moves. 

Shero thought that developing players could take care of the "issues" from within.  I don't blame him for thinking Nico, Bratt, Wood and others could take a step forward (and they still could). 

Boyle has scored 6 goals, Zajac 5, and Coleman 4.  The Devils aren't necessarily getting consistent secondary scoring, but it's not like it's been nonexistent.  They scored 3+ in 11 out of 13 games this year. 

 

[MadDog2020]

18 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

 

Which marquee players?  What did you want to give up for them?  How many of them actually wanted to come here?  Not every summer is going to be full of splashy moves. 

 

I’m sure he means signing JVR and trading for Karlsson. JVR is overrated and now overpaid (and injured), and Karlsson was obviously going to cost a bunch. So if we traded half the franchise away for him (and I know SJ didn’t give up much, but I’m pretty sure it’s fairly obvious Ottawa wasn’t trading him in the east unless it was for an insane return), the complaint from everyone after the first losing streak would be ‘WE GAVE UP TOO MUCH FOR KARLSSON AND YOU KNOW HE WON’T RE-SIGN BECAUSE PARISE DIDN’T RE-SIGN SIX YEARS AGO AND THE PTSD FROM THAT JUST WONT GO THE fvck AWAY SO IT MUST MEAN EVERYONE ELSE WILL LEAVE, AND HALL IS GONNA LEAVE TOO BECAUSE PARISE LEFT SIX YEARS AGO AND EVERYONE HATES IT HERE. FIRE SHERO!!!!’ Or something like that. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by MadDog2020

[sundstrom]

8 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Okay, sure. I'll play.

Maybe I'm misspeaking. I want a second line. I like that we're getting depth scoring. I don't like that our second line is probably bottom-5 in the NHL. 

Let's assume we were out on Tavares, which sucks but whatever.  Wouldn't Galchenyuk look neat on our second line? Mike Hoffman? How about Ryan O'Rielly? A bonifide top-6 center. Currently sitting at 19 points in 12 games. Jeff Skinner (16 points in 15 games so far) could give us an actual (audible ghasp) second line. 

ROR wasn't the only big name acquired via trade. #1 defenseman like Dougie Hamilton and Noah Hanifin were on the block.

Instead, we did nothing. Literally, figuratively, preposterously nothing. And Shero deserves blame for that. 

Ray went after Maroon and JVR and didn't get either because they chose other situations. It wasn't for lack of trying or money.

The Devils did not have a package to get ROR and Hamilton and Hanifin were traded for each other - again, the Devils did not have the pieces to get trades done. If anything, maybe Severson had some value but everyone was quite down on him and he's actually been pretty decent this year (last night's horror aside).

I wanted them to improve the roster as well and not just rely on the kids but sometimes outside forces don't align with your plans.

[MadDog2020]

11 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

L. 

Let's assume we were out on Tavares, which sucks but whatever.  Wouldn't Galchenyuk look neat on our second line? Mike Hoffman? How about Ryan O'Rielly? A bonifide top-6 center. Currently sitting at 19 points in 12 games. Jeff Skinner (16 points in 15 games so far) could give us an actual (audible ghasp) second line. 

ROR wasn't the only big name acquired via trade. #1 defenseman like Dougie Hamilton and Noah Hanifin were on the block.

Instead, we did nothing. Literally, figuratively, preposterously nothing. And Shero deserves blame for that.

I’m sure Shero was in on those conversations. Maybe he didn’t like the prices. 

[NJDevils1214]

3 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’m sure Shero was in on those conversations. Maybe he didn’t like the prices. 

ROR went for so cheap though. I can only hope that Buffalo just didn't see anything they liked that was movable. 

[MadDog2020]

2 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

ROR went for so cheap though. I can only hope that Buffalo just didn't see anything they liked that was movable. 

He went out west for cheap. The price for an eastern team may have been higher.

[NJDevils1214]

2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

He went out west for cheap. The price for an eastern team may have been higher.

True, but I would think that given Buffalo's likely position over the next couple year it wouldn't have been that big of a concern. I could be wrong.

[mfitz804]

55 minutes ago, Devs3cups said:

Yesterday while I was watching TSN, they showed a stat that showed the goalies with at least 100 games played in the last 5 years with the less goal support. Cory was the 1st on the list with his team scoring 2.19 goals per game. I actually posted about it during the game. Take it for what it’s worth I guess.

That's just because our offense has sucked for basically the entire time he's been on the team. You need to compare it to what happens when KK plays. 

53 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I just did a quick rundown again, so give or take a game or two that I may have missed again due to one guy being pulled here and there, but here it is:

2016-17 season.  Schneider played 57 games, and we scored 126 goals, for a 2.21 average.  Kinkaid played the other 24 (I know that's 81 and I'm missing a game), we scored 55 goals, for an average of 2.29.  

Not a huge difference, so basically we didn't score much for either goal, but the point remains that Cory doesn't get a whole lot of goal support.  Going back to our previous conversation about this being deliberate I know, I fully agree it's not intentional at all, but the stats seem to support it, at least a little bit.

I don't think those stats support it at all. 

If the point you were making was that NONE of our goalies were getting goal support, I would agree.

My point was that you can't say it's only Cory, which is what everyone seemed to be implying. In reality, based on the stats you provided, the difference between the two is negligible; if you extrapolate KK's number over the 57 games Cory played, it would have been 130.5 goals as opposed to 126, a difference of 4.5 spread over 57 games. That's a couple of good or bad bounces either way. 

So sure, technically in that sample, we scored more for KK than Cory. But barely. It's not significant enough to say Cory should be pissed, like "why can't they score another 0.08 goals per game for me???"

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

36 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’m sure Shero was in on those conversations. Maybe he didn’t like the prices. 

Skinner and ROR are off to big starts, but it's not like either one has been a point-per-game or higher kind of player in the past.  They may not keep this up.  In Skinner's case, he goes UFA after this year (and may get a fairly big raise), and in ROR's case, he has a cap hit of $7.5 mil over the next five years (though less on average in actually dollars).  If the price was prohibitive for either player as far as the Devils went, I can understand Shero not pulling the trigger.  Not like either guy was a total slamdunk. 

[MadDog2020]

3 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

The fact that mad dog, the king of “my team is losing so I hope players intentionally maim the other team and I use the word fvck six times per sentence” is saying this makes me roll my eyes. 

Saying what? That the board tends to overreact after every loss? Everyone gets frustrated, and I’m certainly no exception (hence my wanting to ‘maim’, as you put it, the other team when we’re losing), but fretting about Hall leaving in two years because of a sh!tty stretch of games in November 2018 is a liiiiiitle bit of an overreaction. 

[NJDfan1711]

40 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

That's just because our offense has sucked for basically the entire time he's been on the team. You need to compare it to what happens when KK plays. 

I don't think those stats support it at all. 

If the point you were making was that NONE of our goalies were getting goal support, I would agree.

My point was that you can't say it's only Cory, which is what everyone seemed to be implying. In reality, based on the stats you provided, the difference between the two is negligible; if you extrapolate KK's number over the 57 games Cory played, it would have been 130.5 goals as opposed to 126, a difference of 4.5 spread over 57 games. That's a couple of good or bad bounces either way. 

So sure, technically in that sample, we scored more for KK than Cory. But barely. It's not significant enough to say Cory should be pissed, like "why can't they score another 0.08 goals per game for me???"

I just went back to 2014-15 (I thought I was going to find Brodeur and Schneider, can't believe it was still Cory and KK then), and here are the results from 4 years ago:

Schneider, 66 games played, 137 goals scored, avg of 2.07.  

KK, 16 games played, 38 goals scored, avg of 2.375.

For the hell of it, because I'm kind of enjoying this, I went back a year prior to Brodeur/Schneider.  The results were pretty surprising, and I actually had to do a double-take when counting Brodeur's games.  Ready?

Schneider, 43 games played, 76 goals for, avg of 1.76. 

Brodeur, 39 games played, 113 goals for, avg of 2.89.  

2015-16 Stats:

Schneider 58 games, 122 goals for, avg of 2.10.

KK 19 games, 48 goals for, avg of 2.52.

So the stats may not support the notion of "Cory is the only one who doesn't get ANY goal support", but rather "Cory definitely gets the least amount of goal support out of all of our goalies, and it's consistent". And keep in mind I'm not exactly a Cory supporter.  I just don't think the guy is playing very well, but I do acknowledge that he's had the short end of the stick more than once.

I think these numbers are actually an indictment of how bad our offense was, and the fact that it still has a ways to go.  I guess Devs3Cups already alluded to it and said it was shown on TSN, but I'd be curious to actually see the results to look at just close we are in comparison to other teams, and whether or not other goalies around the league would be able to do more with what they're given to work with.  I think the simple fact is, regardless of who's in net, we still don't score a ton of goals.  This may not be the 1980s, but it isn't the 90s either.  Goal scoring is up, and you have to score more than 2-2.5 goals a game to have a serious shot at winning.  If you don't, you're putting yourself seriously behind the 8 ball, and forcing your goalie to basically shut the door and steal games for you -- I think that's exactly what these numbers represent - that we simply don't have that, in either guy right now.  

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I just went back to 2014-15 (I thought I was going to find Brodeur and Schneider, can't believe it was still Cory and KK then), and here are the results from 4 years ago:

Schneider, 66 games played, 137 goals scored, avg of 2.07.  

KK, 16 games played, 38 goals scored, avg of 2.375.

For the hell of it, because I'm kind of enjoying this, I went back a year prior to Brodeur/Schneider.  The results were pretty surprising, and I actually had to do a double-take when counting Brodeur's games.  Ready?

Schneider, 43 games played, 76 goals for, avg of 1.76. 

Brodeur, 39 games played, 113 goals for, avg of 2.89.  

2015-16 Stats:

Schneider 58 games, 122 goals for, avg of 2.10.

KK 19 games, 48 goals for, avg of 2.52.

 

That's for sure more interesting. KK just hasn't played enough games for a proper comparison, but the difference between Schneider & Brodeur is pretty crazy in almost an even number of games. 

[NJDfan1711]

14 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

but fretting about Hall leaving in two years because of a sh!tty stretch of games in November 2018 is a liiiiiitle bit of an overreaction. 

Completely agreed.  I can't even believe some people have already brought it up, which is why I have steered clear of those comments until now.  I'm just as worried and pissed off about the state of our team and level of play right now as the next guy, but I'm nowhere near the point of jumping to conclusions about Hall either wanting to leave, or us just simply trading him to get something for him.  It's an insane leap and not even worth discussing right now if you ask me. 

[SterioDesign]

55 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

The fact that mad dog, the king of “my team is losing so I hope players intentionally maim the other team and I use the word fvck six times per sentence” is saying this makes me roll my eyes. 

did you take his post personal cause it was in cap lock?  lol