NHL Entry Draft Thread - 2021

[nessus]

I’m not getting too bent out of shape about the late wins. There’s not even a consensus top 5 in this draft. It has been so much tougher to scout this group. It’s not like last year where you would want to guarantee a top 3 spot to get a player like Stutzle. Looking at the worst case scenario here...you get Luke Hughes instead of Brandt Clarke? Or vice versa? And if both of them are gone, you get one of the top 3 forwards in the draft or Owen Power. Maybe it would be different if this was a normal season, and these players had an opportunity to separate themselves from the rest of the pack if they truly were a cut above. If we were talking about 2022 or 2023, that’s a totally different story. But at the end of the day, you’ve got to stop drafting at the top if the team is ever going to turn around. If these recent wins end up marking the start of that process, maybe this isn’t the worst year for it. 

[vadvlfan]

I want to see us finish the season strong. Not worried about "screwing up" draft position. Not to worry, we'll get a decent player. 

[Lateralous]

6 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

No the kids already showed this year that they are really close.

That's something else. Lots of doom and gloom here seem to focus on the fact that we lose lost of games.

What i see is an incredibly young roster never giving up and falling short of one goal almost every lost. That means we're really fvcking close to do a lot better. ALL our young players already doing good will be better next season. Many of our players had great personal seasons. We got rid of a lot of dead weight. Smart UFAs actually looking into things can see that we're obviously up and coming.

Then there's Holtz and Mercer coming. And we might land an important D man this year through the draft. We're in good shape. Results from this years means absolutely nothing. 

You dont want to do like Karlsson who jumped to a win now team who suddenly drop and looks like he's stuck there. Also guaranteed that the Sens will be better than the Sharks soon. Same thing.

And to be clear, what i really called out that you responded to is the claim some are making here that the players are developing a losing mentality making them okay with losing. I call bullsh!t on that.

1.  Every year before now, I would agree that the late wins were worthless 

2. I agree that overall, this abortion of a season was a good year to have the vets suck and injuries lead to us getting another top pick to hopefully address the defense

With that said, I believe that with where we are as a team, the development of guys on the roster trumps a few spots in the upcoming draft.   I've felt like overall we were always in a better position with the rebuild than what our record showed.  I've felt like a combination of injuries and the vets all pretty much sucking to varying degrees were our biggest issues.   For the most part, the vets have all been removed and we're playing with all of Bratt, Nico and Zacha for the first time all season.  I certainly don't need us to run the table but you're damn right I want to see some late wins now that we have a mostly healthy group of core young players.   I want some indication that my theory of injuries and sucky vets was the reason we're at the bottom of the standings yet again.  I want these guys going into the offseason feeling good about the direction of the team.  

It was only a week and a half ago when we hadn't had a lead in a game in what seemed like month.  We had just come off 4 unwatchable games against the Rangers. Nico was missing open nets with the game on the line.  Jack wasn't getting any actual production.  Sharagovich's wife hadn't yet told him he could rip the division a new a-hole.  You reference that we were losing games by a goal but we were also getting caved in every game in the first and then just playing catch up in the 3rd.   That's like one of these QBs who can throw for 300 yards per game because their team is always trailing and the defense is just trying to keep everything in front of them.   I want to see that we can play with top teams when we have all our young guns from the opening whistle like we did last night.  

I think there is a value to how we're finishing out this season.  

  

[mfitz804]

All I know is I don’t want to see that little Kittner boy spill out all over the dock. By dock I mean ice, and by little boy, that has to be Jack. 

[Nicomo]

What did I miss with Sharongovich’s wife? What did she say? 

[Lateralous]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

What did I miss with Sharongovich’s wife? What did she say? 

I was just referencing his interview after the two goal game where he said she had told him he could score 3 

[Nicomo]

9 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

I was just referencing his interview after the two goal game where he said she had told him he could score 3 

Ah ok. I miss a lot of those interviews depending on how quickly the Center Ice feed cuts off the broadcast. I’ve seen it mentioned a couple times now, and didn’t know exactly what she said. 

[mfitz804]

When he scored last night, my daughter and I were very excited that he might get interviewed after the game. Because his interviews are so entertaining. But like most things, Zacha had to fvck that up.

[Chuck the Duck]

5 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

When he scored last night, my daughter and I were very excited that he might get interviewed after the game. Because his interviews are so entertaining. But like most things, Zacha had to fvck that up.

I guess you and your daughter ALMOST got what you wanted.   😄

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, Chuck the Duck said:

I guess you and your daughter ALMOST got what you wanted.   😄

Exactly. That's what Zacha does consistently. 

[Guadana]

Devils got Hughes only because devils won last game of the season. Zajac scores in OT against Florida(he likes it). LA were 2nd but they drafted 5th. This is how lottery works. 
There no needs in losing.
This draft is super questionable. Nessus said about top-5, I would say there’s not even a consensus top 8 in this draft.  If Clarke will go before us, Devils will draft solid prospect.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Guadana

[AEWHistory]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:07 PM, SterioDesign said:

Well that's fine, but just go and watch the movie Jaws and realize you're Larry Vaughn the mayor right now and i'm chief Brodie.

Then see who they should have listened to in the first place lol 

well, they should’ve listened to their travel agent and gone somewhere with fewer sharks for summer vacation.  I hear Colorado almost never has a shark attack....

[AEWHistory]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:55 PM, Devil Dan 56 said:

I said the players competing has nothing to do with the fans. The players are always going to play to win. They don't care about draft position. 

Enjoy that hill. We are about to hit year 7 of this rebuild. We've been cheering on lottery balls for years. We don't need to look for the perfect RIGHT player every single draft, and especially not in a year that has no clear number 1.

I think this is the key point in this debate.  With this draft you can easily end up with the player who should have gone #1 even if you’re drafting at 5, 6, or maybe lower.  There is just not enough info from 2020 to gauge the progress of these young players, so the draft is going to be a real crapshoot unless it is postponed to give teams a chance to scout player development in 21-22.  
 

However, in a normal year I would strongly agree with Sterio.  I am a NY Jets fan (let’s just keep that between us, okay?  It is embrassing to admit.) and the Jets lost picking number one this year because they had to go out and win a couple games that had zero value to the franchise.  That first pick could have been traded back for more assets, or maybe they’d have simply picked Wilson with it, but whatever the result they would have had more options.  As it is they lost out on the accepted number one QB because they won useless games.  This is the point Sterio is making and it is a valuable one.  It just so happens that this might not be the year it would matter as much.

[SterioDesign]

48 minutes ago, AEWHistory said:

I think this is the key point in this debate.  With this draft you can easily end up with the player who should have gone #1 even if you’re drafting at 5, 6, or maybe lower.  There is just not enough info from 2020 to gauge the progress of these young players, so the draft is going to be a real crapshoot unless it is postponed to give teams a chance to scout player development in 21-22.  
 

However, in a normal year I would strongly agree with Sterio.  I am a NY Jets fan (let’s just keep that between us, okay?  It is embrassing to admit.) and the Jets lost picking number one this year because they had to go out and win a couple games that had zero value to the franchise.  That first pick could have been traded back for more assets, or maybe they’d have simply picked Wilson with it, but whatever the result they would have had more options.  As it is they lost out on the accepted number one QB because they won useless games.  This is the point Sterio is making and it is a valuable one.  It just so happens that this might not be the year it would matter as much.

To be clear. The real point i was trying to address all along was more about downplaying some doom and gloom reactions claiming that when the team is losing that it's encouraging a losing culture and that our players would somehow be okay with losing in the future or wtv. So that we HAD to win no matter what and that it's worth more than potentially getting a better player. I mean come on. Of course there's some value in winning and all, but its also not that black and white

I know the discussion kind of turned into arguing semantics but i agree that this year the draft is so all over the place, so it's not too bad.

Personally i feel the team's result in the standing is not a representation of our talent and potential. MANY of our rookies had amazing seasons. We missed our captain for the whole damn season and he's playing really well now. We lost SO many games by 1 goal. We played in a very tough division all season. Give an extra year of experience to all the young guys, give us nico for a full season and we'd be doing a lot better already. PLUS the team NEVER gave up, ever. They always fought till the very last second and that's amazing to see. There's just so much positive already. A "win" really doesn't mean much when you really look at it that way. So i just focus on all that negative and just hope for the best pick, it's ideal really

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Devilsfan118]

13 hours ago, Guadana said:

Devils got Hughes only because devils won last game of the season. Zajac scores in OT against Florida(he likes it). LA were 2nd but they drafted 5th. This is how lottery works. 

Man, wise words.  I need to remind myself of this more often.

[devlman]

7 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

To be clear. The real point i was trying to address all along was more about downplaying some doom and gloom reactions claiming that when the team is losing that it's encouraging a losing culture and that our players would somehow be okay with losing in the future or wtv. So that we HAD to win no matter what and that it's worth more than potentially getting a better player. I mean come on. Of course there's some value in winning and all, but its also not that black and white

I know the discussion kind of turned into arguing semantics but i agree that this year the draft is so all over the place, so it's not too bad.

Personally i feel the team's result in the standing is not a representation of our talent and potential. MANY of our rookies had amazing seasons. We missed our captain for the whole damn season and he's playing really well now. We lost SO many games by 1 goal. We played in a very tough division all season. Give an extra year of experience to all the young guys, give us nico for a full season and we'd be doing a lot better already. PLUS the team NEVER gave up, ever. They always fought till the very last second and that's amazing to see. There's just so much positive already. A "win" really doesn't mean much when you really look at it that way. So i just focus on all that negative and just hope for the best pick, it's ideal really

 

Fix our special teams and we are in playoff contention. That’s how good we’ve been 5v5 this year. Having actual practices next season will greatly help. More young talent coming thru, as well. I am tremendously optimistic for next season....the corner has been turned.

[SterioDesign]

34 minutes ago, devlman said:

Fix our special teams and we are in playoff contention. That’s how good we’ve been 5v5 this year. Having actual practices next season will greatly help. More young talent coming thru, as well. I am tremendously optimistic for next season....the corner has been turned.

exactly and thats kind of my point. We sucked for a long time because we lacked talent. Drafting is how you get talent. And if you're gonna go through a sh!t season like this one. Where you only play vs your own division, shortened season, the whole team get covid and a crazy busy schedule with so many rookies. The team playing well, players having good seasons, coming close to win so often and battling every night. But finishing low in the standings for a better pick is actually very very ideal. It's a lost season anyway. 

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

exactly and thats kind of my point. We sucked for a long time because we lacked talent. Drafting is how you get talent. And if you're gonna go through a sh!t season like this one. Where you only play vs your own division, shortened season, the whole team get covid and a crazy busy schedule with so many rookies. The team playing well, players having good seasons, coming close to win so often and battling every night. But finishing low in the standings for a better pick is actually very very ideal. It's a lost season anyway. 

I don’t think there is anyone here who doesn’t know that the lower you finish, the better your draft chances are. If you aren’t advocating tanking to lose more, I’m not sure what your point is.

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don’t think there is anyone here who doesn’t know that the lower you finish, the better your draft chances are. If you aren’t advocating tanking to lose more, I’m not sure what your point is.

i literally explained what my point was a few post up. maybe read it? 

[mfitz804]

32 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i literally explained what my point was a few post up. maybe read it? 

I read it, it’s just incomprehensible. 

[SterioDesign]

7 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I agree with this sentiment overall but that's just one ping pong ball and not even remotely indicative of how this whole thing works. The Devils wining games after being eliminated got them Zacha instead of McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin; it got them McLeod instead of Matthews/Laine/PLD. In general, it's better for teams to have "moral victories" than actual, ya know, 2-point victories as the season dies down when they're eliminated.

Holtz might work out to be just what we need, but without that winning streak at the end of the year we could've ended up with Stuetzle or Raymond or one of the big defenseman. 

true and that year we actually made the playoffs we landed Smith who might end up being one of the best prospect out of that draft when its all said and done. It's really a crapshoot

BUT again, and to my point. When we made the playoffs that Hall year. Sure it was fun and all. But looking bad, as a franchise. What will have the biggest impact on our future success? Smith or going on that run?

We followed that season with sh!tting the bed and not doing much. So again to that "kids need to learn to win and rawr rawr losing culture"... we made the playoffs and it didn't change much the next few season, it actually made things worst because of the expectations.

So again, getting the "right" player at the draft and moral victories > getting irrelevant wins just to "show" better results

[mfitz804]

Well you already said you weren’t talking about tanking, so what are you talking about, whether people should be happy with/find value in these wins? 

Ultimately, I’m a fan. I want my team to win. Do I understand the benefits of losing right now? Sure. Does that mean I will root for it, or not get some joy out of wins? No. 

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I think that’s really the only way to watch: during the game it’s “yay! go devils!” after the game it’s “neat! that loss helped our draft position” 

That’s what I do. It’s fun to win, if we lose, so be it. 

Also I’m rooting against Zacha. 

[devlman]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

We followed that season with sh!tting the bed and not doing much. So again to that "kids need to learn to win and rawr rawr losing culture"... we made the playoffs and it didn't change much the next few season, it actually made things worst because of the expectations.

So again, getting the "right" player at the draft and moral victories > getting irrelevant wins just to "show" better results

How did it make things worse with expectations? The deals Shero did were the right moves at the time and could’ve worked out in an alternate universe. Because they didn’t work out does not mean that we should not have gone for it and tried to improve the team instead of tanking more.

secondly, how do you know that playoff year didn’t spur Nico and Bratt to take the next step? Who is to say that maybe they fizzle out without that taste of success? We don’t know. It’s not black and white to just say let’s hope for losing til we are ready to compete.

[Guadana]

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

I agree with this sentiment overall but that's just one ping pong ball and not even remotely indicative of how this whole thing works. The Devils wining games after being eliminated got them Zacha instead of McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin; it got them McLeod instead of Matthews/Laine/PLD. In general, it's better for teams to have "moral victories" than actual, ya know, 2-point victories as the season dies down when they're eliminated.

Holtz might work out to be just what we need, but without that winning streak at the end of the year we could've ended up with Stuetzle or Raymond or one of the big defenseman. 

There are no Matthewses and Eicheles on this draft. So far, no one is worthy of Eichel`s heel.
Ottawa were second last year ago, and they draft fifth. (3rd pick were shark`s from karlsson trade). They hardly needs in center but they still has no real true potential number 1 center. They were last one year ago and Colorado drafted 4th(Duchene trade). Detroit draft fourth year ago too. It`s a lottery.

And this season position isn`t change anything completly. This season, the situation will not change from a particular pick. Only Clarke is really needed. Other players with strong pros and cons. And I cant say Clarke is bpa for 1OA. I cant say this about any top-8 player. A year ago, many people were talking about Raty, his skating and movement relative to the puck looked and looks like he is a potential top-1. He might not even make the top 15 in the end.

It's much more important this year that Castron does his job properly, than to take a lower position for a couple of %.

Like 2018 draft. Devils made playoff and made good homework. Even though we didn't have many picks and they weren't top picks, Castron may have picked two of the top ten players in that draft.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Guadana