The OFFICIAL Off-Season Thread

[MadDog2020]

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

45 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

Man, if the Devils can start hitting on some of these later picks...sure worked wonders for the Red Wings back in the day.

I know I'm stating the blatantly obvious but when you no longer have those high firsts to work with and eventually find yourself unable to keep everyone...having those kids on those cheap ELCs just means so damned much.  That's how you keep things going even when you have to make those painful "cap relief" trades.  

[2ELIAS6]

3 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

No thanks. https://thehockeynews.com/news/could-the-new-jersey-devils-pursue-john-gibson?fbclid=IwAR2e5VVL7nvLNm8qaobtOyZeykiSfTlpPNhbQ1zOos145pIB8C9--4-6SUc_aem_AU4q2CgXIfpZjCTDf-x11lN3Pv_D4JE8oatWFeCMRVTidPAtT5x6CIYLmHlOelITYI8

Not interested in Gibson at all. Keep it moving 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

28 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

Not interested in Gibson at all. Keep it moving 

It really feels like a lot of writers are trying to force a "Devils need a goalie" narrative...mostly by writing "Well this guy's available!  Maybe the Devils have interest!"

I can't see why Fitz (who clearly understands the kinds of moves NOT to make when it comes to properly managing his cap) would have ANY interest in Gibson.  Even if Anaheim picked up a good chunk of his remaining money...the guy has a .902 save%, 3.32 GAA, and -29.8 GSAA over the past four years.  Maybe the team in front of him is playing a factor, but why gamble potentially being stuck with him for four more years, if it turns out that yeah, his best days are indeed well behind him?  And how can he be considered an upgrade to what the Devils already have?  Is he better than VV?  I can't see a convincing case being made for that.

Outside of Hellebuyck as a rental (I just don't see how the Devils could afford a big cap hit for a goalie the way the team's constructed, especially with more guys to pay soon), or possibly two years of Ullmark (pretty reasonable short-term $5 million AAV hit), I have little interest in the Devils going into next season with anything other than VV and Schmid.  And I'm still completely comfortable going into next season as is...Fitz doesn't have to make a move for a goalie right now.  

 

[NJDevils1214]

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It really feels like a lot of writers are trying to force a "Devils need a goalie" narrative...mostly by writing "Well this guy's available!  Maybe the Devils have interest!"

I can't see why Fitz (who clearly understands the kinds of moves NOT to make when it comes to properly managing his cap) would have ANY interest in Gibson.  Even if Anaheim picked up a good chunk of his remaining money...the guy has a .902 save%, 3.32 GAA, and -29.8 GSAA over the past four years.  Maybe the team in front of him is playing a factor, but why gamble potentially being stuck with him for four more years, if it turns out that yeah, his best days are indeed well behind him?  And how can he be considered an upgrade to what the Devils already have?  Is he better than VV?  I can't see a convincing case being made for that.

Outside of Hellebuyck as a rental (I just don't see how the Devils could afford a big cap hit for a goalie the way the team's constructed, especially with more guys to pay soon), or possibly two years of Ullmark (pretty reasonable short-term $5 million AAV hit), I have little interest in the Devils going into next season with anything other than VV and Schmid.  And I'm still completely comfortable going into next season as is...Fitz doesn't have to make a move for a goalie right now.  

 

I think NJ sees how well teams have done in the last decade and have decided they can do without. Even dating back to the Chicago championships I don't think anyone saw Crawford as a franchise goalie and COL and VGK have now backed that up in recent memory.

[HughesCorporation]

let our duo run till the trade deadline 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I think NJ sees how well teams have done in the last decade and have decided they can do without. Even dating back to the Chicago championships I don't think anyone saw Crawford as a franchise goalie and COL and VGK have now backed that up in recent memory.

I think we’ve learned a couple of things with regards to how Fitz wants to manage his cap:

1) He doesn’t mind offering term and he’ll spread the wealth to the “right” guys, but he is not offering insane AAV relative to his cap…in other words, no Panarin or Maple Leafs nonsense.  Those guys are being paid SO much that they have pretty much no chance to ever be truly cost-effective.

2) He doesn’t want to sink too much money into goaltending…and I’m sure his thinking is “Why pay big money for a player who might appear in 75% of his team’s games?  Quite possibly even LESS?  And why pay that guy when I might be buying up decline years?  Let me see if I can find my own guy from within.”

An exception to #2…I think if Fitz has the room (or can make the room), he’ll take on a short-term, higher AAV for a goalie that he firmly believes can put his team over the top.  I just don’t think he wants to commit to that guy long-term.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[RizzMB30]

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think we’ve learned a couple of things with regards to how Fitz wants to manage his cap:

1) He doesn’t mind offering term and he’ll spread the wealth to the “right” guys, but he is not offering insane AAV relative to his cap…in other words, no Panarin or Maple Leafs nonsense.  Those guys are being paid SO much that they have pretty much no chance to ever be truly cost-effective.

2) He doesn’t want to sink too much money into goaltending…and I’m sure his thinking is “Why pay big money for a player who might appear in 75% of his team’s games?  Quite possibly even LESS?  And why pay that guy when I might be buying up decline years?  Let me see if I can find my own guy from within.”

An exception to #2…I think if Fitz has the room (or can make the room), he’ll take on a short-term, higher AAV for a goalie that he firmly believes can put his team over the top.  I just don’t think he wants to commit to that guy long-term.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

It's actually starting to feel like one year of Hellebuyck might fall into the Devils' laps, if Fitz is actually interested in paying some kind of price for him (more on this in a bit).

For one, there's basically no talk of teams trying to outbid each other in trying to land him...also no chatter re:  anyone even considering dealing for him with the intent of extending him.  The longer no one steps up to nab him, the more Winnipeg may simply have to realize that they're not going to get the massive haul for him that they were hoping for.

Safe to say that both Carey Price and Sergei Bobrovsky have become serious cautionary tales, when it comes to paying big money to a goalie.  With the exception of Lou (who knows what his thought process is these days, honestly), no one seems particularly eager to hand out top dollar (especially long-term) to netminders at the moment.  And at least Sorokin still has a couple of years left in his 20s; whenever a hypothetical extension would kick in for Hellebuyck, he'd be starting with his Age 31 season.  That hurts.  Some will point to Vasilevskiy having gotten his money, but his deal started with his Age 26 season, and that was signed a few years ago.  Hellebuyck simply isn't in the same position that Sorokin and Vasilevskiy were when they signed, and there's obviously not a thing that he can do about that.  He's simply too old to expect to get even Sorokin money and term, much less Vasilevskiy.

Also, not like everyone doesn't know that Winnipeg has no chance to hang onto Hellebuyck beyond 2023-24.  Not exactly a value-enhancer.

Of course, even though it would only be for a year, the Devils don't have the room to add his full hit, so the guess here is that Fitz would ask the Jets to eat some of the money...and of course, the Jets will ask for a legit prospect (or two) to do it.  Guessing that they could ask for Casey and Holtz and maybe a pick.  If they want a goalie, not sure who to give up...I think if Hellebuyck is coming aboard, the idea would be to have one season of 1A Hellebuyck and 1B VV, with Schmid getting legit 1A minutes with Utica.  Maybe you send Daws instead of a pick, but can't see why he would excite anyone in Winnipeg.

Would I make that deal (Casey, Holtz, and Daws for Hellebuyck)?  Probably not.  I don't think Casey necessarily has a future here (mostly due to who's here already...Hughes and Nemec are clearly supposed to be the D-studs of the future), but I'm not so sure I want to cash him in on a short-term, right-now player just yet.  I also have my doubts about Holtz's future and if he'll ever put it together, but I still want to give him one more season within the organization...he still has a chance to be become cost-effective production for a few years, and the Devils will need their share of cheaper contracts in the seasons to come.

 

As much as I find these "What ifs" interesting, I still find myself circling back to "Just roll with VV and Schmid, don't weaken the prospect pool making a deal for a guy who will only be here a year"...but I'm also assuming that Fitz isn't planning on Schmid spending a season in the AHL getting serious starter's minutes.  If that's firmly Fitz's Plan A...guess bringing in Helle makes that much more sense.  Still not sold on it though.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[MadDog2020]

I’ve said it before , and I’ll say it again: Logan Thompson would be a great low risk, high reward goalie pickup. I’d much prefer that to trading assets for Hellebuyck.

Edited July 12, 2023 by MadDog2020

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

One last thought re:  Helle...if Fitz was actually entertaining trying to extend Helle beyond a rental, the guy that would make the most sense going back the other way (and this would absolutely be one-for-one) would be...Dawson Mercer.

To be VERY clear, I really REALLY don't want to deal Dawson...I'd much rather keep him and not include him in any deal for Helle.  I like this kid a hell of a lot and think he has yet to reach his ceiling.

BUT, if Fitz's intent would be to keep Helle, the only real way to have the money on board to do it (and be able to sign guys like Luke and Nemec once their ELCs expire) would be to give them Mercer, who is obviously going to get a generous raise when his ELC expires after this season.  Just like that, Fitz isn't trying to juggle two higher-cost contracts.  And of course the idea is that the Devils now have a sure-fire can't-miss goalie who can go head-to-head with anyone.

I wouldn't want to extend Helle more than three years, but Fitz would probably have to go four, with the extension signed before any trade would go down...and if I'm Fitz I make it clear to Helle that I'm not going over $6.5 million in AAV, and no longer than four years.  And I tell him, "If you find someone out there willing to offer more who has a better chance to win than we do, God bless ya, best of luck.  But you're not getting any younger and I can have you taking up only so much cap space, and I will have other guys to sign...you should basically have five years here to help us win a Cup.  If you really want this opportunity, you're going to have to leave some money and years on the table.  That's it."

So basically Dawson for five years of Helle at not too insane of a hit.  I would NOT do it myself.  I simply like Dawson too much. 

13 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’ve said it before , and I’ll say it again: Logan Thompson would be a great low risk, high reward goalie pickup. I’d much prefer that to trading assets for Hellebuyck.

Agree fully, but is he actually available?  

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[MadDog2020]

6 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Agree fully, but is he actually available?  

There were rumors Vegas was looking to move him, but I don’t know how accurate they are.

[Lateralous]

24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

One last thought re:  Helle...if Fitz was actually entertaining trying to extend Helle beyond a rental, the guy that would make the most sense going back the other way (and this would absolutely be one-for-one) would be...Dawson Mercer.

To be VERY clear, I really REALLY don't want to deal Dawson...I'd much rather keep him and not include him in any deal for Helle.  I like this kid a hell of a lot and think he has yet to reach his ceiling.

BUT, if Fitz's intent would be to keep Helle, the only real way to have the money on board to do it (and be able to sign guys like Luke and Nemec once their ELCs expire) would be to give them Mercer, who is obviously going to get a generous raise when his ELC expires after this season.  Just like that, Fitz isn't trying to juggle two higher-cost contracts.  And of course the idea is that the Devils now have a sure-fire can't-miss goalie who can go head-to-head with anyone.

I wouldn't want to extend Helle more than three years, but Fitz would probably have to go four, with the extension signed before any trade would go down...and if I'm Fitz I make it clear to Helle that I'm not going over $6.5 million in AAV, and no longer than four years.  And I tell him, "If you find someone out there willing to offer more who has a better chance to win than we do, God bless ya, best of luck.  But you're not getting any younger and I can have you taking up only so much cap space, and I will have other guys to sign...you should basically have five years here to help us win a Cup.  If you really want this opportunity, you're going to have to leave some money and years on the table.  That's it."

So basically Dawson for five years of Helle at not too insane of a hit.  I would NOT do it myself.  I simply like Dawson too much. 

Agree fully, but is he actually available?  

 

Mercer would be a non-starter for me.  If we have to lose a forward next year to make salaries work, it should be Toffoli.  Hopefully Schmid is just ready to be the 1A by then and we can keep all the forwards with the dead cap coming off and the rumored cap increase.      

Per the reports, we know Winnipeg does not want a rebuild.   I think the offer should be VV and Casey (and a non-1st round pick if necessary).   VV gives them a decent to good goalie they can probably extend if they want.  Casey is a good prospect that I agree, probably never has a spot here. 

I'm not trying to minimize what VV did for us in 2022-23 but you have to think in this arrangement, we're looking at Helly for '23'-'24 and then one of Schmid or Helly as the starter the following year.  Ideally, if Helle walks because Schmid is ready to be the 1A for '24-'25, finding a 1b or straight up backup is not the hardest hole to patch.      

[MadDog2020]

17 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

Mercer would be a non-starter for me. 

Me too. Mercer is not available.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

Me too. Mercer is not available.

If Helle was 3 years younger than he is I would have thought about it more.  But yeah, I really want Mercer HERE.

[MadDog2020]

9 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If Helle was 3 years younger than he is I would have thought about it more.  But yeah, I really want Mercer HERE.

No doubt, if Hellebuyck was three years younger, I’d have to think long and hard about it. But there is no way I’m trading Mercer for a 30 year old goalie. No chance. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

No doubt, if Hellebuyck was three years younger, I’d have to think long and hard about it. But there is no way I’m trading Mercer for a 30 year old goalie. No chance. 

And despite what snippets are coming out, are you all that convinced that Fitz really wants to go for Helle or Gibson?  I’m sure not.  I think he’s open to Helle strictly for one year if Winnipeg becomes desperate enough to try to get some kind of return.  But I don’t think he’s being proactive here.

[MadDog2020]

2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

And despite what snippets are coming out, are you all that convinced that Fitz really wants to go for Helle or Gibson?  I’m sure not.  I think he’s open to Helle strictly for one year if Winnipeg becomes desperate enough to try to get some kind of return.  But I don’t think he’s being proactive here.

Yep, I think Fitz is open to making a move for a goalie, but on his terms only. And that’s why I love Fitz. 

 

[Lateralous]

 

31 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If Helle was 3 years younger than he is I would have thought about it more.  But yeah, I really want Mercer HERE.

 

19 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

No doubt, if Hellebuyck was three years younger, I’d have to think long and hard about it. But there is no way I’m trading Mercer for a 30 year old goalie. No chance. 

If he's 3 years younger, I don't think we're having this conversation because there is much more demand.  I think it started with @Colorado Rockies 1976 saying it looks like Hellebuyck could actually fall into our laps which I agree with.   This is a rare opportunity to possibly add a top 3 player at his position for way under market value.   The flat cap, weird situation with everyone in Winnipeg wanting out and his age have combined to drive down demand so much that were talking about hopefully getting him at a rental price. A rental price IMO is nowhere near Dawson Mercer.    

Edited July 12, 2023 by Lateralous

[MadDog2020]

6 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

. A rental price IMO in nowhere near Dawson Mercer.    

Yeah I’m thinking Casey and a pick.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

 

 

If he's 3 years younger, I don't think we're having this conversation because there is much more demand.  I think it started with @Colorado Rockies 1976 saying it looks like Hellebuyck could actually fall into our laps which I agree with.   This is a rare opportunity to possibly add a top 3 player at his position for way under market value.   The flat cap, weird situation with everyone in Winnipeg wanting out and his age have combined to drive down demand so much that were talking about hopefully getting him at a rental price. A rental price IMO in nowhere near Dawson Mercer.    

Mercer was never part of a rental discussion.  That was only if Fitz would’ve decided that he wanted to extend Helle on a multi-year deal.  But like I said, even then I wouldn’t be keen on trading Dawson.  I wanna keep him. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Yeah I’m thinking Casey and a pick.

Probably gotta throw a Ute in there too, but yeah, that might be the very best that Winnipeg could hope to get.

[Lateralous]

3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Mercer was never part of a rental discussion.  That was only if Fitz would’ve decided that he wanted to extend Helle on a multi-year deal.  But like I said, even then I wouldn’t be keen on trading Dawson.  I wanna keep him. 

Yeah but I don't think Fitz should ever even mention being interested in re-signing him during any negotiation, just what we are willing to pay for the one remaining year on Hellebuyck's current deal.   Obviously Chevy will come back and say they want an additional asset if he re-signs beyond this year but I don't think that can be anything other than a pick attached to the condition.       

[devlman]

I hope we keep Boqvist’s phone number on speed dial in the event McLeod won’t play due to the investigation. I thought Boqvist was starting to turn the corner.

[MadDog2020]

2 minutes ago, devlman said:

I hope we keep Boqvist’s phone number on speed dial in the event McLeod won’t play due to the investigation. I thought Boqvist was starting to turn the corner.

I don’t think the Devils would’ve resigned McLeod if there was anything there.