The OFFICIAL Off-Season Thread

[moustic]

https://newjerseyhockeynow.com/2023/07/06/devils-daily-friedman-adds-gibson-to-the-mix/

[2ELIAS6]

Gibson, yea I don’t think I want to go down that road 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

Gibson, yea I don’t think I want to go down that road 

Agree, big no thank you.

[MadDog2020]

Yeah I’ll pass on Gibson

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Guy has a .902 save% over the past four seasons.  Why do we want that exactly?

[MadDog2020]

Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Guy has a .902 save% over the past four seasons.  Why do we want that exactly?

Because it’s apparently more impressive because he was on a terrible team. I think that’s the rationale. 

[NJDevils1214]

Not sure I'd like Gibson either but he was behind an absolutely BRUTAL Ducks team the last couple years so part of that save % can be attributed to that.

[MadDog2020]

 

[Lateralous]

I feel like they are patiently waiting out Winnipeg to get Hellebuyck at a one year rental price.  Seems like a lot of noise coming out about the goaltending situation as if to say to Winnipeg "you need to make a move or we're going to move on to other options."    

I've previously said I wanted to go into the season with a VV/Schmid combo.  I genuinely think Schmid is the future but he is super raw and has never played a ton of games, so one more year in the AHL (with Daws already out) where he gets the majority of the workload might be a positive for his development.   

I've also previously thought that VV needed to go back in any goalie deal to make it work but now I'm not so sure about that given how willing teams have been to eat salary.  How desperate are the Jets to flip over the core of players who say they want out?  They have a ton of cap space so retaining on half of Hellebuyck's deal for one year shouldn't be a big deal if we can get to a price that works for them, I just have no idea what that would be.  They don't want to rebuild, so the main asset going back is not going to be a pick.  Maybe Holtz? 

Devils go for it next year with Hellbuyck getting 55ish of the starts and then VV/Schmid is still in tact for '24-'25

Also, hell no to Gibson and his 4 year deal.         

[MadDog2020]

If we can get Hellebuyck for a song as a rental, I’d do it and see where it goes. If he sucks, we can just let him walk. But I wouldn’t give up a ton in assets.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

18 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

Returns from his stint in jolly old England. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

28 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

I feel like they are patiently waiting out Winnipeg to get Hellebuyck at a one year rental price.  Seems like a lot of noise coming out about the goaltending situation as if to say to Winnipeg "you need to make a move or we're going to move on to other options."    

I've previously said I wanted to go into the season with a VV/Schmid combo.  I genuinely think Schmid is the future but he is super raw and has never played a ton of games, so one more year in the AHL (with Daws already out) where he gets the majority of the workload might be a positive for his development.   

I've also previously thought that VV needed to go back in any goalie deal to make it work but now I'm not so sure about that given how willing teams have been to eat salary.  How desperate are the Jets to flip over the core of players who say they want out?  They have a ton of cap space so retaining on half of Hellebuyck's deal for one year shouldn't be a big deal if we can get to a price that works for them, I just have no idea what that would be.  They don't want to rebuild, so the main asset going back is not going to be a pick.  Maybe Holtz? 

Devils go for it next year with Hellbuyck getting 55ish of the starts and then VV/Schmid is still in tact for '24-'25

Also, hell no to Gibson and his 4 year deal.         

I still don't really want Hellebuyck, but it's clear that no one is willing to step up with a big haul to acquire him.  Nor does anyone seem willing to deal for him with the intention of extending him.

It's starting to feel like if Winnipeg is hoping to get a decent return, they will almost HAVE to eat some money to make it happen.  So assuming the Devils would be interested, what might it take?

I'm obviously not sold on Holtz, but if he goes in the deal, suddenly you might have to explore re-signing Toffoli...not sure if I'd want to do that.  Maybe they ask for a 2nd-rounder + 3rd-rounder + Casey?  I don't think the Jets are going to do nearly as well as they'd like to, but at the same time they can't totally get fleeced.  And if it's a guy who's likely to only be around for one year, I'm not sure how much I really want to give up.  

[NJDevils1214]

Muh lort! I finally figure out I could tell my phone to NOT show me pucks and pitchforks articles anymore. My life is about to be so much better not having to read those brain dead headlines.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

24 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Muh lort! I finally figure out I could tell my phone to NOT show me pucks and pitchforks articles anymore. My life is about to be so much better not having to read those brain dead headlines.

I've already said it but that place is AWFUL.  It's mostly absurd trade proposals that have no chance to see the light of day (and don't seem to take cap implications into account), and on occasion they lose their minds because some mid-20s Devils AHLer scores, say, 6 goals in his first 9 games, and all of a sudden he's a legit prospect.  That site is a joke. 

[NJDevils1214]

Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I've already said it but that place is AWFUL.  It's mostly absurd trade proposals that have no chance to see the light of day (and don't seem to take cap implications into account), and on occasion they lose their minds because some mid-20s Devils AHLer scores, say, 6 goals in his first 9 games, and all of a sudden he's a legit prospect.  That site is a joke. 

It's horrible and my phone would always suggest it cause the matrix knows I like NJD. Thank God I got rid of it now.

[njbuff]

Quite frankly I think Schmid has earned the opportunity to see what he can do as a number one goalie.

If he’s a colossal failure, then explore other options.

He should have one helluva team in front of him though, so he is set up for success.

[RunninWithTheDevil]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

Quite frankly I think Schmid has earned the opportunity to see what he can do as a number one goalie.

If he’s a colossal failure, then explore other options.

He should have one helluva team in front of him though, so he is set up for success.

I said before least season and the team eventually proved me right: with the forward core we have, all they need is at least league-average goaltending and they're a lock to fight for the division title. Bitch about the Rangers series all you want but VV played stretches during the regular season with some Vezina-level numbers (numbers which I'm sure @Colorado Rockies 1976 has posted ver batim before) and Schmid eventually became a dark horse that could potentially be our new 1A. Plus, on paper, this roster is simply better than the one we started last season with. As long as nothing catastrophic happens in net, we good. 😈

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

I said before least season and the team eventually proved me right: with the forward core we have, all they need is at least league-average goaltending and they're a lock to fight for the division title. Bitch about the Rangers series all you want but VV played stretches during the regular season with some Vezina-level numbers (numbers which I'm sure @Colorado Rockies 1976 has posted ver batim before) and Schmid eventually became a dark horse that could potentially be our new 1A. Plus, on paper, this roster is simply better than the one we started last season with. As long as nothing catastrophic happens in net, we good. 😈

Yeah I still lean heavily towards status quo in net for sure.  

[Lateralous]

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I still don't really want Hellebuyck, but it's clear that no one is willing to step up with a big haul to acquire him.  Nor does anyone seem willing to deal for him with the intention of extending him.

It's starting to feel like if Winnipeg is hoping to get a decent return, they will almost HAVE to eat some money to make it happen.  So assuming the Devils would be interested, what might it take?

I'm obviously not sold on Holtz, but if he goes in the deal, suddenly you might have to explore re-signing Toffoli...not sure if I'd want to do that.  Maybe they ask for a 2nd-rounder + 3rd-rounder + Casey?  I don't think the Jets are going to do nearly as well as they'd like to, but at the same time they can't totally get fleeced.  And if it's a guy who's likely to only be around for one year, I'm not sure how much I really want to give up.  

I've always been patient about this rebuild and for the most part, I've been completely fine with us building towards serious cup contention starting in '24-'25 or possibly even '25-'26 when Nemec and L Hughes become a major part of this team.  That being said, over the last week, my thinking on this has started to evolve.  With the acquisition of Toffoli and looking at what teams around the league are bringing back next year, especially in the Eastern Conference,  I don't see that we are really that far off.  Boston seems ready to fall off a cliff with their patchwork centers and aging core. Tampa slides a little every year. Toronto looks ready to run back the same failed experiment. Not sure that Florida is going to be a consistent playoff juggernaut.  Buffalo and Ottawa still seem a few years away.  I think you can count the number of rosters in the entire league on one hand that look as good as NJ on paper and 3 of my top 4 are in the west (Vegas, Colorado and maybe Edmonton?  Carolina in the East for sure). 

Your first paragraph is key because I am becoming more and more open to the idea of Hellebuyck for a year if the price to acquire him is as a rental.  It's a rare opportunity where we're talking about a position that often has the greatest impact on a game or series, yet generally holds the least in trade value. In this situation, Hellebuyck seems to be looking to get out of Manitoba, driving the price down even further.   If he becomes available at a reasonable price point, why not take a one year run with him and blow open our cup window right now?   Other than the two rookie D who are unproven, I didn't see a single player other than Bratt and maybe VV in this years playoffs that I don't think is ready to compete for a cup next year.  You could do a lot worse than adding a consistent top 3 goalie in his prime, playing for a long term contract (somewhere else) to the group while we still have Toffoli, Palat and Hamilton in their primes and Mercer and Luke Hughes on ELCs.   

Again, I'm am absolutely fine with a Schmid/VV combo next year if that's what we go with but management still seems a little nervous about giving Schmid too much too soon and he's never really had a big workload in terms of games.   This seems like it could be the rare opportunity to add a short term piece at a relatively low cost that makes us an absolute cup front runner right now without borrowing too much from our future.  I also don't think a full year in Utica for Schmid getting 55-60 starts hurts him at all or should even be considered a setback.   If for any reason management thinks AS is still a year away from prime time, I'm not sure holding onto a guy like Holtz or Casey for a move somewhere in the future ever gets you a better shot at the cup than what we could have right now with Hellebuyck.  

One last point I'll make.  I've been driving non-stop the last few weeks so I've had a lot of time to listen to various hockey podcasts.  At this point I don't even know which one I heard it on but a local reporter to the Jets was asked about the mood in Winnipeg after the Wheeler buyout and the PLD trade and they said it was surprisingly upbeat.  This core has been together for so long and the clubhouse drama has grown so old that fans just seem ready to move on with something fresh.  While they shouldn't look to get fleeced, I'm not sure there's a ton of pressure on the Jets to win a trade on another player asking to get out.

4 hours ago, njbuff said:

Quite frankly I think Schmid has earned the opportunity to see what he can do as a number one goalie.

If he’s a colossal failure, then explore other options.

I don't necessarily disagree about earning a shot at number 1 or 1a, but he is raw and there are some technical things he need to improve IMO.  For example, I think when he refines his technique, he will keep his body tighter and get at least 1 if not 2 of those weirdly deflected goals in Game 5 of the Carolina series.  A full year in the AHL to work on technique and workload is not necessarily a bad thing.    

Also, I hope Fitz learned his lesson about looking for "other options" after the season has started after the Crawford fiasco.  It's not always that easy.   

   

 

  

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

@Lateralous I’m still not fully sold on Hellebuyck (it’s not like he’s been this guy who carries his team and helps them to deep playoff runs), but you definitely make a very solid argument for him.  I think if he was a guy with just a bit more of a playoff pedigree, I’d be more fully swayed.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[MadDog2020]

31 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

@Lateralous I’m still not fully sold on Hellebuyck (it’s not like he’s been this guy who carries his team and helps them to deep playoff runs), but you definitely make a very solid argument for him.  I think if there’s was a guy with just a bit more of a playoff pedigree, I’d be more fully swayed.

I’m on board the Hellebuyck as a rental train; if we could acquire him for a rental price, it could be worth a shot for one season. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by MadDog2020

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

27 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’m on board the Hellebuyck as a rental train; if we could acquire him for a rental price, it could be worth a shot for one season. 

Yeah if the price isn’t anything too too crazy, guess I can’t dismiss the idea entirely.

[moustic]

I get that we strongly believe that we are stronger than last year (And i think the same) but let's not forget about the leaving of two big veterans with Severson & Grave... We all know that Severson had some brainfart once in a while and frustation we got from seeing him play sometimes are stick to our bones BUT... he was an important piece of the puzzle. Likewise for Grave who was really solid most of the time ("most of the time" ok ok ) 

On paper Luke Hugues and maybe Nemec are more talented but we all know that learning NHL at D is a long process. 

i'm not saying anything new there but i'm slighty concern about our defense next season... So having a rock behind the pipe will ease my worries ; ) 
VV has show that he was solid so i'm ok with him. 

[2ELIAS6]

With the loss of seves and graves we have to hope that L hughes can step in and really be sharp right out of the gate. As far as goalies go, I absolutely want helle if we can grab him, I think he would solidify this team and we could have the opportunity to make a serious run at the cup this year. I like schmid, but we haven’t seen enough of him and I’m not ready to gamble the season on his back. VV fell to sh!t during the post season and i dont know if I have faith that he will be able to replicate what he did last season again this year. Personally, I’d like a more proven/ sure thing in net especially if the D struggles you need someone behind them that has the ability to clean up mistakes. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

28 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

With the loss of seves and graves we have to hope that L hughes can step in and really be sharp right out of the gate. As far as goalies go, I absolutely want helle if we can grab him, I think he would solidify this team and we could have the opportunity to make a serious run at the cup this year. I like schmid, but we haven’t seen enough of him and I’m not ready to gamble the season on his back. VV fell to sh!t during the post season and i dont know if I have faith that he will be able to replicate what he did last season again this year. Personally, I’d like a more proven/ sure thing in net especially if the D struggles you need someone behind them that has the ability to clean up mistakes. 

VV's numbers weren't far off from previous seasons...you can probably expect .910 save%-type performance from him, which is why I consider him a fine 1B.  If the "intended" 1A goes down, VV can handle 1A duty (and can even go on Vezina-like runs, as we saw last season).  But sure, you wouldn't mind someone just a little bit better to be your true 1A.

I'm not totally against Helle for one season, but once you get past what it might take to acquire him, I guess a fair question is (assuming that he will indeed only be here for one year) what would you happy with, as far as how deep the 2023-24 Devils wind up going?  ECF appearance?  SCF appearance?  SCF championship?  Also seems tough to jettison Schmid to the AHL yet AGAIN when he hasn't done much to deserve being demoted, although at least this time, it would be due to a Vezina-winning legit vet coming aboard, as opposed to being cast aside for friggin' Mackenzie Blackwood.

Assuming the Jets would actually be willing to eat some of Helle's money, I guess you could do a lot worse than a tandem of Helle and VV (if I'm going this route I want guys who I'm pretty sure that I know what I'm getting)...and at least you're not locking yourself into expensive decline years if the idea is to enjoy the one year of Age 30 Helle you'll have.  Guess we'll find out soon enough if Fitz really does have interest.