DaneykoIsGod Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 If I were representing the Devils organization, I wouldn't even think of suggesting a new deal to Kovalchuk. It's his job to come back and say - Look, can we re-structure this thing and see what happens? Even if I'd want to give the NHL the big fvck you and fight to the death, it's all about what Kovalchuk wants, not the organization, THAT is what good faith negotiating is about. The whole claim is that the Devils were NOT negotiating in good faith. They were though - it's always been in Kovalchuk's court. That's one of the reason I like that he is on record as saying he wanted 17 years because it's his number - his dad died on the 17th. It has genuine significance to him. Even if it's a line it was HIS call not the organizations therefore NOT a bad-faith request on NJ's part. Basically bottom line: If the Devils look to do anything other than follow Kovalchuk's lead it's proof positive of bad faith negotiation - if not before the rejection then it most certainly would be after the fact, And that is NOT the Devils way. +1 Er ... I mean We're all so used to the concept that Lou is always in control, but in a process like this, how much is the GM really the one in control? How much does the player and agent dictate? Is it really such a stretch to say Kovalchuk was the one insisting on 17 years (for all the reasons 17 is important to him) and $102M ($1M more than the Thrashers offered)? Is it really unfathomable that Kovy/Grossman put those numbers on the table and Vanderbeek told Lou to make it work, and Lou used the framework of previously approved contracts to construct something that technically abided by the CBA even though it made him roll his eyes? I don't know ... I feel like this scenario, however unlikely it may be, fits Lou's quotes from the other day better than any other conspiracy theory floating around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 kovalchuk said the devils suggested 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 kovalchuk said the devils suggested 17 years. Did he? I thought in an after interview he had said he had because 17 was a significant number for him. I even got that he had always intended to sign with the Devils - he just wanted to decide on July 17th since that was the day his dad died -sort of like a tribute to his dad and his choice for a life devoted to hockey- it was in that interview I got the idea it was his call. Selective hearing I guess I'm too sentimental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneykoIsGod Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 kovalchuk said the devils suggested 17 years. Hmmm, OK. I missed the presser because I was at work so I missed that part. Assuming players tell the truth at pressers like this (and, really, it isn't like Kovy had much reason to lie on this particular subject at the time), maybe they put the dollar amount on the table and Vanderbeek told Lou to make that work? I don't think it's a coincidence that Kovalchuk's cap hit came out to $6M, the same as Elias. IIRC, Kenny Holland did something similar with Hossa's one-year deal in Detroit, where he refused to pay him more than Lidstrom. It just so happens that 17 years is the magic number to make $102M work out like that. I kinda dislike speculating so much, but there isn't a whole lot of actual news coming out so ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) There aren't many, if any, UFAs that will be available in the interim who can demand this kind of deal. no - but there are plenty of RFA's who could get them before the CBA expires - chara, stamkos, parise, ryan, carter, thornton (ufa actually), setoguci, doughty - just to name several. they'd all be in line for crazy deals like this. kovalchuk said the devils suggested 17 years. yes - it's been reported that the 17/102 deal was the deal the Devils offered Kovy on 7/1 - i believe it was Vanderbeek who said that explaining that the whole process was them just waiting out kovalchuk. what scares me even more is that there were reports that if the Devils had offered 15 years with heavy front loading, THAT would also be rejected. this might HAVE to go to arbitration because the league may just continue rejecting them all at this point, regardless of precedent. Edited July 22, 2010 by sundstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oofrostonoo Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I think the NHL knows they will lose. They pulled the plug on this contact as a warning to other GM's saying "We will make your signings a huge pain in the ass if you try this." The language of the CBA is clear and Lou knows what he can and can't do from a legal standpoint. The "spirit" of the CBA will not be present in a courtroom. I don't see how the arbitrator would uphold this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim777 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Well, at least it's not boring. Hell, it's almost like not having an offseason at all! This ridiculousness has made summer WAY more tolerable than usual. In a weird painful sorta way. Couldn't agree more - it's like hockey 24/7/365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) it will still take too much time to resolve. If the NHL really knows they will lose, they will take FOREVER to select an arbiter and more than likely drag out the battle well into next season. The Devils is a market the NHL can afford to fvck with. It's strong enough that they'll gain lots of press from the battle, they won't kill the team as they would should they take the Yotes to task or some other small market venue with no recent history of winning. and the market is weak enough that the public outcry will only serve to create press, not kill the NHL's reputation as say attacking the Leafs, Pens or Rangers would. Lou is fvcked. Nothing personal he just gave them the perfect sacrificial lamb. My ASS he orchestrated it -- but indeed he couldn't have provided a more perfect target to be made into the "example" Edited July 22, 2010 by Pepperkorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 This whole Kovy thing is seeping in everywhere. I had a dream last night that I met Jesus and I asked him about the Holy Grail and he replied, "Don't worry about my cup." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelastonealive Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 All these conspiracy theories are making my head spin. On a related note, is anyone else's head itchy from wearing these tin foil caps all day? Should I be worried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Hmmm, OK. I missed the presser because I was at work so I missed that part. Assuming players tell the truth at pressers like this (and, really, it isn't like Kovy had much reason to lie on this particular subject at the time), maybe they put the dollar amount on the table and Vanderbeek told Lou to make that work? I don't think it's a coincidence that Kovalchuk's cap hit came out to $6M, the same as Elias. IIRC, Kenny Holland did something similar with Hossa's one-year deal in Detroit, where he refused to pay him more than Lidstrom. It just so happens that 17 years is the magic number to make $102M work out like that. I kinda dislike speculating so much, but there isn't a whole lot of actual news coming out so ..... no, i don't think that's accidental at all, either. for years stevens and brodeur were the highest paid devils, then elias. although kovalchuk's salary would be much higher. no - but there are plenty of RFA's who could get them before the CBA expires - chara, stamkos, parise, ryan, carter, thornton (ufa actually), setoguci, doughty - just to name several. they'd all be in line for crazy deals like this. chara's not an RFA. don't forget semin. now while i think it's seriously unlikely that people like ryan and doughty and stamkos would commit to contracts like that, people like parise and carter absolutely could. what scares me even more is that there were reports that if the Devils had offered 15 years with heavy front loading, THAT would also be rejected. this might HAVE to go to arbitration because the league may just continue rejecting them all at this point, regardless of precedent. the nhl wouldn't've had a leg to stand on in that case, though, so long as the devils did it right. i almost wish we had offered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I haven't seen any discussion of Lou's comment that "ownership" was content with the contract. This indicates to me that JVB had a bigger hand in this, although LL does have an ownership interest in the team, from what I understand. JVB is apparently willing to go toe-to-toe with Bettman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime98 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/Bettman+Daly+sort+serious/3308785/story.html funny article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aLowDrudge Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Bill: So Gary, about this Ilya Kovalchuk contract, what are we gonna do? The Devils front-loaded that deal like crazy -- of the US$102-million, he'd get US$98.5-million in the first 11 years, and then in the last six years he'd be paid in cotton candy and hockey tape. The average cap hit is $6-million. Cripes, that's what we're paying Ed Jovanovski. Gary: Have him killed. Bill: I keep telling you, Gary, we can't have players killed. If we could, Sean Avery would be in a ditch in New Jersey. Source: http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/Bettman+Daly+sort+serious/3308785/story.html#ixzz0uQLBL7b9 I have a feeling Marty already dug the ditch in his back yard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias26 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/Bettman+Daly+sort+serious/3308785/story.html funny article Very Funny. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi, I'm VALUE! Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 This whole Kovy thing is seeping in everywhere. I had a dream last night that I met Jesus and I asked him about the Holy Grail and he replied, "Don't worry about my cup." Well played, Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi, I'm VALUE! Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) And by the way, since we're talking about war, always remember: Edited July 22, 2010 by Hi, I'm VALUE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim777 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 http://www.nationalp...8785/story.html funny article "You let Lou worry about Lou, candy apple" LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion15 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2010/07/21/kovalchuk-rejection-could-be-tip-of-iceberg/ Devils fans and NHL critics will rip the league for getting involved. After all, this has clearly been a problem for some time, and the league has continually turned the other cheek. Damn right I'll rip the league for getting involved. They failed to do it before and NOW we're the example they're trying to make!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie McKraut Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I feel like this is a situation where the system works. In order to sign Kovalchuk for a reasonable cap hit, the team had to commit to him long term, allowing the market involved to buy merchandise and invest their faith in the guy. It's not some bullsh!t one year rental to make one huge push for the cup then hold a fire sale at the end of the year. I guess the issue comes from the threat of Kovalchuk's early retirement, but who is the NHL to say that they don't believe he won't play out the contract? Let's be honest, at the age of 44, he'll probably be worth about half a million bucks. It's really infuriating: these are the rules. I mean honest to God, they're right there in writing. How the league can say, "but you don't really mean that!!" and expect that to hold up in court is befuddling. And suggestions that it actually might? Terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs1965 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 "You let Lou worry about Lou, candy apple" LOL That Article was really funny, Gary: [Throws puck. Daly ducks. The puck is alertly scooped up by Chris Pronger, who darts out again.] Gary: [shouts down hall] What is wrong with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I feel like this is a situation where the system works. In order to sign Kovalchuk for a reasonable cap hit, the team had to commit to him long term, allowing the market involved to buy merchandise and invest their faith in the guy. It's not some bullsh!t one year rental to make one huge push for the cup then hold a fire sale at the end of the year. I guess the issue comes from the threat of Kovalchuk's early retirement, but who is the NHL to say that they don't believe he won't play out the contract? Let's be honest, at the age of 44, he'll probably be worth about half a million bucks. It's really infuriating: these are the rules. I mean honest to God, they're right there in writing. How the league can say, "but you don't really mean that!!" and expect that to hold up in court is befuddling. And suggestions that it actually might? Terrifying. No team has ever done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils26 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I think pride is a factor basically the nhl is putting its foot down on the devils when they had the oppurtunity to do it with the other contracts. Also how can you allow the stanley cup champions blackhawks and the Phailures who were the runner up get there contracts passed. This is an uneven playing field in my mind. if the hawks and phailures along with numerous other clubs were allowed to make the same deals who is the nhl to say that the devils cant That is what the NHL will say if this matter makes it to arbitration. If I were representing the Devils organization, I wouldn't even think of suggesting a new deal to Kovalchuk. It's his job to come back and say - Look, can we re-structure this thing and see what happens? Even if I'd want to give the NHL the big fvck you and fight to the death, it's all about what Kovalchuk wants, not the organization, THAT is what good faith negotiating is about. The whole claim is that the Devils were NOT negotiating in good faith. They were though - it's always been in Kovalchuk's court. That's one of the reason I like that he is on record as saying he wanted 17 years because it's his number - his dad died on the 17th. It has genuine significance to him. Even if it's a line it was HIS call not the organizations therefore NOT a bad-faith request on NJ's part. Basically bottom line: If the Devils look to do anything other than follow Kovalchuk's lead it's proof positive of bad faith negotiation - if not before the rejection then it most certainly would be after the fact, And that is NOT the Devils way. I'm not saying that the Devils come out and force Kovalchuk into a new deal. Just simply contact him and be completely honest. Tell him that the front office really wants him to be a Devil, and ask him if he would be willing to come up with a new deal to expedite the process (avoid arbitration). But also tell him that if he wants to file a grievance the Devils will be behind him 100%. I don't see how doing something like that would be evidence of not negotiating in good faith because you're still leaving things up to Kovy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 wake me up when this sh!t is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilgriffey84 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I think the kings interest now is just a bunch of rumors and talks certainly the kings tried to lock kovy up for 15 years with a cap hit of 5.3 wouldn't that certainly fall under circumventing the cap in which the NHL would be obligated to rejec that to.certainly the kings can't afford to have a higher cap of 6.5 because they would run the risk of loseing there young stars such as doughty and would you really go after kovy after he spurned you for another team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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