Devils' Michael Ryder says teams were afraid to trade for him - fr

[Triumph]

Harrold was not dressed last night to play right wing exclusively.  The Devils only used Severson for 16 minutes last night, they were clearly concerned with his ability to play significant minutes.

[NJDfan1711]

What GM doesn't know what Ryder or Havlat bring at this point? More of Ryder not trying isn't going to change that. And no one signed Havlat in the off season. He was on a show-me contract and he showed he's done. Other GM's want to IMPROVE their team, not help the Devils

Evidently not our GM, since we took the bait on both guys.  Your logic is flawed, or, Lou is just a complete moron.   

 

Sitting in the suite is not the end-all to trading a player.  Zids was being scratched left and right when we traded quite a bit to obtain him from the Wild.  Fact is while I am still a little surprised no one took a chance on Ryder, both him and Havlat are pretty much garbage.

It's not the be all end all, but it sure as hell doesn't help.  Also, like others have said, compare their previous production to the CURRENT production of guys occupying their roster spots at the moment.  Zubrus, Gionta,   Personally I'd rather see Havlat and Ryder over those two any day, at least their proven scorers and have for the most part had better careers than the other two.  And besides, it's just common sense that GMs are going to be more interested in guys actually in the lineup contributing to the team albeit in a small way, rather than seeing a guy in a suit doing absolutely nothing.  That's like going to buy a car and choosing the rusty piece of junk that has sat on the lot for months with no buyer interest instead of looking at the slightly-less-junky one that is actually RUNNING and showing that it still has life.

[mfitz804]

Where does he rank among our goal scorers over that time period?

 

I'll answer my own question.

 

He is our 5th highest goal scorer over the last 2 years amongst players who were here both years (or parts thereof), with Elias & Zajac being one slot ahead of him with 28 goals. 

 

I excluded Cammalleri since he wasn't here last year. His 24 this year, however, equals Ryder, pushing him down to 6th. 

 

Not really what was expected of him, but our offense has been miserable. 

[Pepperkorn]

wtf?  These guys were on the outs -- NJ was their last chance -- piss and moan all you want -- it's not the Devils it's hockey.  HOCKEY DOESN'T WANT YOU!  WHOEVER GOT YOU WOULDN'T PLAY YOU   DUHHHHHH?????????

 

CMON!  Stfu and do what you have to do.  pissing and moaning helps no one least of all yourself.  COMMON SENSE PEOPLE?????

 

and stop writing this sh!t in the papers.  No one wants to read it -- it's just irritating. 

[Neb00rs]

I'll answer my own question.

 

He is our 5th highest goal scorer over the last 2 years amongst players who were here both years (or parts thereof), with Elias & Zajac being one slot ahead of him with 28 goals. 

 

I excluded Cammalleri since he wasn't here last year. His 24 this year, however, equals Ryder, pushing him down to 6th. 

 

Not really what was expected of him, but our offense has been miserable. 

 

Well, you know what they say: "Ask a stupid question..."

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Evidently not our GM, since we took the bait on both guys.  Your logic is flawed, or, Lou is just a complete moron.   

 

It's not the be all end all, but it sure as hell doesn't help.  Also, like others have said, compare their previous production to the CURRENT production of guys occupying their roster spots at the moment.  Zubrus, Gionta,   Personally I'd rather see Havlat and Ryder over those two any day, at least their proven scorers and have for the most part had better careers than the other two.  And besides, it's just common sense that GMs are going to be more interested in guys actually in the lineup contributing to the team albeit in a small way, rather than seeing a guy in a suit doing absolutely nothing.  That's like going to buy a car and choosing the rusty piece of junk that has sat on the lot for months with no buyer interest instead of looking at the slightly-less-junky one that is actually RUNNING and showing that it still has life.

 

DD56's logic is not flawed.  Lou signed Ryder because Kovy decided he didn't want to be a Devil anymore and Ryder was as decent an option as there was under the circumstances.  He just didn't work out.  Two years ago Ryder seemed like a pretty good idea.  Obviously not so much now.  As many have said, Havlat was a low-risk "why not" move who only got signed because he was cheap.  The hope was playing with his close friend Elias might allow Havlat to turn into a nice little bargain signing.  That didn't work out either.  But at the very least, Ryder had done enough in the prior two seasons before coming here that I can't second-guess the signing now. 

 

You can't just look at guys who are scoring less and say "Well, replace them with these guys who might score more".  Ryder and Havlat don't bring the same skillsets that Zubrus and Gionta do (or are supposed to, anyway).  That being said, as many have stated, Lou's gotta do something with Zubrus...he really shouldn't be on the team next season. 

[Devil Dan 56]

Evidently not our GM, since we took the bait on both guys. Your logic is flawed, or, Lou is just a complete moron.

It's not the be all end all, but it sure as hell doesn't help. Also, like others have said, compare their previous production to the CURRENT production of guys occupying their roster spots at the moment. Zubrus, Gionta, Personally I'd rather see Havlat and Ryder over those two any day, at least their proven scorers and have for the most part had better careers than the other two. And besides, it's just common sense that GMs are going to be more interested in guys actually in the lineup contributing to the team albeit in a small way, rather than seeing a guy in a suit doing absolutely nothing. That's like going to buy a car and choosing the rusty piece of junk that has sat on the lot for months with no buyer interest instead of looking at the slightly-less-junky one that is actually RUNNING and showing that it still has life.

My logic is fine. What bait?? Ryder was a year removed from 35 goals when he signed was on a 28 goal pace in the lockout year. It's reasonable to think he'd contribute, but he's clearly done. Havlat was signed to low-risk medium-reward contract. Hes also done. If we know that, the whole league knows that. Lou wasn't going to fool anyone by putting them out there to look like garbage.

[devilsrule33]

My logic is fine. What bait?? Ryder was a year removed from 35 goals when he signed was on a 28 goal pace in the lockout year. It's reasonable to think he'd contribute, but he's clearly done. Havlat was signed to low-risk medium-reward contract. Hes also done. If we know that, the whole league knows that. Lou wasn't going to fool anyone by putting them out there to look like garbage.

 

I would disagree about him being "clearly done." He's the same Michael Ryder he's always been, but probably slower. Look at the PP time he got in Montreal and Dallas, and his linemates there. If he was playing on the 3rd and 4th line without Plekanec or Ribiero, or Eriksson or Whitney, he'd look terrible too in the last two seasons as well.

 

Ryder is a guy that needs a center doing a ton of the work. It never happened. And I've said yesterday, I wouldn't necessarily care that it never happened if the Devils ever had two lines clicking for the last two seasons. That's never been the case, and at the beginning of the year, Elias was flanked by Zubrus and Havlat, and as of last night, it's Zubrus and Gionta.  

Edited March 4, 2015 by devilsrule33

[Triumph]

I would disagree about him being "clearly done." He's the same Michael Ryder he's always been, but probably slower. Look at the PP time he got in Montreal and Dallas, and his linemates there. If he was playing on the 3rd and 4th line without Plekanec or Ribiero, or Eriksson or Whitney, he'd look terrible too in the last two seasons as well.

 

Ryder is a guy that needs a center doing a ton of the work. It never happened. And I've said yesterday, I wouldn't necessarily care that it never happened if the Devils ever had two lines clicking for the last two seasons. That's never been the case, and at the beginning of the year, Elias was flanked by Zubrus and Havlat, and as of last night, it's Zubrus and Gionta.  

 

This is all true, but it's also true that Ryder is a complete 0 on defense and takes lots of penalties.  He'll make a great low-cost option for a team that needs to get under the cap, but it really might be it for him - he might go there and suck too.  Zubrus-Elias-Gionta is a defensive line, clearly - I don't know if they were hard-matched against anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

[mfitz804]

Well, you know what they say: "Ask a stupid question..."

 

It was enlightening actually. As big a disaster as Ryder has been, he's our 5th best goal scorer. And nobody beat him by a ton, either. its just another example of how inept we are offensively. 

[devilsrule33]

This is all true, but it's also true that Ryder is a complete 0 on defense and takes lots of penalties.  He'll make a great low-cost option for a team that needs to get under the cap, but it really might be it for him - he might go there and suck too.  Zubrus-Elias-Gionta is a defensive line, clearly - I don't know if they were hard-matched against anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

 

You are right on a few things. It would have to be a perfect fit for a team. I don't see many places where he would be good enough to be a top six forward. Without a doubt, he's good enough here. There just hasn't been an opportunity given to him.

[Neb00rs]

It was enlightening actually. As big a disaster as Ryder has been, he's our 5th best goal scorer. And nobody beat him by a ton, either. its just another example of how inept we are offensively. 

 

For sure. Even for much of this season, while we were all ragging on him, he wasn't too far off of the team lead in goals. It's not a good sign for Ryder, but rather, a sign of just how much we suck at scoring.

[NJDfan1711]

You can't just look at guys who are scoring less and say "Well, replace them with these guys who might score more".  Ryder and Havlat don't bring the same skillsets that Zubrus and Gionta do (or are supposed to, anyway).  That being said, as many have stated, Lou's gotta do something with Zubrus...he really shouldn't be on the team next season. 

 Sure you can.  That's what line juggling and roster juggling is all about.  Putting guys together and throwing guys in the lineup because they have a reasonable chance at scoring, and if you ask me, based on current and historical stats, Ryder and Havlat both have a better chance at contributing to this team than Zubrus or Gionta do.  You're certainly right, they don't bring the same skillsets as Zubrus or Gionta -- what the hell do the latter two bring?  Zubrus' effort is pretty pathetic lately, beyond his inability to put the puck in the net.  He's hardly the force on the puck he once was - he doesn't control it or wear down opponents with a cycle the way he used to, and Gionta, well, he's lost a bit of a step and he's proven far less effective without Bernier and Carter as steady linemates.  

 

We can agree to disagree I guess, but we all know we wanted Havlat/Ryder gone, and I just don't see how you do yourself any favors or give yourself a chance of that happening if the guys are in the closet collecting dust instead of at least showcased and on display.  

 

 

My logic is fine. What bait?? Ryder was a year removed from 35 goals when he signed was on a 28 goal pace in the lockout year. It's reasonable to think he'd contribute, but he's clearly done. Havlat was signed to low-risk medium-reward contract. Hes also done. If we know that, the whole league knows that. Lou wasn't going to fool anyone by putting them out there to look like garbage.

That's exactly my point.  You're acting as if Lou was out of his mind and wrong in taking a chance and signing these guys because, and I quote "What GM doesn't know what Ryder or Havlat bring...".   And don't sit there and say you're talking about right here and now, because, contrary to what you might think, their skills have NOT declined dramatically to the point where just a year and a half ago it made sense for Lou to sign them, but now it makes no sense for nay other GM to even sniff them.  Neither one of them is all that different from where they were 6-12 months ago. 

[DJ Eco]

Do 6th and 7th rounders even make it to the AHL?  I can imagine very few.

 

Few but still worth it (worth more than a couple players not sniffing the lineup). 

 

Patrick Hornqvist, Henrik Lundqvist, Paul Gaustad, Joe Pavelski, etc., were all 7th rounders, for discussion's sake. The 0.5% you land on one of those guys is still worth more than some of our players in the press box.

 

And I understand, that's only worth discussing IF IN FACT any crappy offers were even made in the first place.

[DevsMan84]

Few but still worth it (worth more than a couple players not sniffing the lineup). 

 

Patrick Hornqvist, Henrik Lundqvist, Paul Gaustad, Joe Pavelski, etc., were all 7th rounders, for discussion's sake. The 0.5% you land on one of those guys is still worth more than some of our players in the press box.

 

And I understand, that's only worth discussing IF IN FACT any crappy offers were even made in the first place.

 

With Lou, Conte and Co. running the drafting, no way are we drafting a Pavelski, Lundqvist, etc in the 7th round.

[William D'Aquila]

wtf?  These guys were on the outs -- NJ was their last chance -- piss and moan all you want -- it's not the Devils it's hockey.  HOCKEY DOESN'T WANT YOU!  WHOEVER GOT YOU WOULDN'T PLAY YOU   DUHHHHHH?????????

 

CMON!  Stfu and do what you have to do.  pissing and moaning helps no one least of all yourself.  COMMON SENSE PEOPLE?????

 

and stop writing this sh!t in the papers.  No one wants to read it -- it's just irritating. 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

With Lou, Conte and Co. running the drafting, no way are we drafting a Pavelski, Lundqvist, etc in the 7th round.

 

Meh, for the most part, getting gems in the lower rounds like that has a lot to do with luck, in all sports.  If anyone had any inkling Lundqvist would be as good as he's been, someone would've snatched him up much earlier. 

 

You have your fair share of revisionists praising Bill Belichick's "genius" move of drafting Tom Brady.  He was a 6th-round (199th overall) pick for a reason...the Patriots already thought they had their franchise QB for several more years in Drew Bledsoe, and though they liked what they saw of Brady in his first preseason and camp (which made the Pats give up a roster spot to keep him), they almost took QB Tim Rattay with that pick (Who? Exactly).  Obviously there are scouts who do their homework and try to find players in the lower rounds that have at least some chance of reaching the NHL, but I don't think anyone sees true star potential in those players.  Sometimes you just get a nice break. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[redruM]

At this point a future career AHLer in that late round pick is more benefical to the team than a scorer who has no role on the team....not to mention there's a shred of professional courtesy in letting the guy further his career....plus get the guy out the door if he's not of use to your team....that's assuming this even happened on Monday

Finally someone who gets it!!

[EdgeControl]

ryders making 3.5 mil a year. the only thing I want to hear from him is that he's in the weight room busting his butt doing lifts and plyos and speed work. so he'll be ready to go when called on... thats all we heard about from jagr...  sounds like he glides as much off ice as he does on the ice

[DevsMan84]

Meh, for the most part, getting gems in the lower rounds like that has a lot to do with luck, in all sports.  If anyone had any inkling Lundqvist would be as good as he's been, someone would've snatched him up much earlier. 

 

You have your fair share of revisionists praising Bill Belichick's "genius" move of drafting Tom Brady.  He was a 6th-round (199th overall) pick for a reason...the Patriots already thought they had their franchise QB for several more years in Drew Bledsoe, and though they liked what they saw of Brady in his first preseason and camp (which made the Pats give up a roster spot to keep him), they almost took QB Tim Rattay with that pick (Who? Exactly).  Obviously there are scouts who do their homework and try to find players in the lower rounds that have at least some chance of reaching the NHL, but I don't think anyone sees true star potential in those players.  Sometimes you just get a nice break. 

 

I am not going to kill Lou for not constantly finding late round treasures.  I agree those are few and far between.

 

However, have we ever drafted even a somewhat of an impact player beyond the 5th round?  I really can't remember.  If others are hitting the jackpot in later rounds while we have yet to, after a while it becomes less luck and more ineptitude.

 

Edit: Solomonsson (sp?) just hit my brain as one who might fit that bill but he didn't really have much of an impact at all and didn't last an entire season IIRC.

Edited March 4, 2015 by DevsMan84

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I am not going to kill Lou for not constantly finding late round treasures.  I agree those are few and far between.

 

However, have we ever drafted even a somewhat of an impact player beyond the 5th round?  I really can't remember.  If others are hitting the jackpot in later rounds while we have yet to, after a while it becomes less luck and more ineptitude.

 

Edit: Solomonsson (sp?) just hit my brain as one who might fit that bill but he didn't really have much of an impact at all and didn't last an entire season IIRC.

 

Steve Sullivan was a 9th-rounder.  Stephane Yelle (8th-rounder) wasn't an impact player, but he played in 991 NHL regular season games.  Chris Terreri (5th) and Kirk McLean (6th) were poor men's #1 goalies.  There's guys who played a fair number of games (500-700 games), and some Russians of course, but yeah, no "OMG" types.   

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Jersey_Devils_draft_picks

Edited March 4, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[DevsMan84]

Steve Sullivan was a 9th-rounder.  Stephane Yelle (8th-rounder) wasn't an impact player, but he played in 991 NHL regular season games.  Chris Terreri (5th) and Kirk McLean (6th) were poor men's #1 goalies.  There's guys who played a fair number of games (500-700 games), and some Russians of course, but yeah, no "OMG" types.   

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Jersey_Devils_draft_picks

 

That's also going pretty far back.  The last 15 or so years have pretty much been barren for the Devils in the later rounds.

 

Again I am not expecting Lou and Conte to hit the jackpot every year let alone every few years, but when there is a really long stretch of  getting little to nothing out of your later round picks while other teams are then luck is not exactly going to cut it as an excuse.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

That's also going pretty far back.  The last 15 or so years have pretty much been barren for the Devils in the later rounds.

 

Again I am not expecting Lou and Conte to hit the jackpot every year let alone every few years, but when there is a really long stretch of  getting little to nothing out of your later round picks while other teams are then luck is not exactly going to cut it as an excuse.

 

Well, you did say "ever".  Yeah, it's been a while...but how many other teams are really hitting the jackpot with low-rounders?  Probably not that many.  Detroit was hot there for a while. 

 

At least the Devils have been doing pretty well with 2nd-rounders lately:

 

2009 Gelinas

2010 Merrill

2011 no 2nd

2012 Severson

2013 Santini

 

At least three of these guys are up with the big club and showing reasons to hope, and we've heard good things about Santini.  But it's not breaking news to say that the drafts in the last several years haven't produced much. 

[CRASHER]

Well, you did say "ever".  Yeah, it's been a while...but how many other teams are really hitting the jackpot with low-rounders?  Probably not that many.  Detroit was hot there for a while. 

 

At least the Devils have been doing pretty well with 2nd-rounders lately:

 

2009 Gelinas

2010 Merrill

2011 no 2nd

2012 Severson

2013 Santini

 

At least three of these guys are up with the big club and showing reasons to hope, and we've heard good things about Santini.  But it's not breaking news to say that the drafts in the last several years haven't produced much. 

 

Its funny as much as the Devils miss their mark in the first round they seem to have better success in the 2nd round, but at this point the more bullets in the drafting gun, the better

[Joe B]

If Ryder or Havlet were waived today, any team pick either up?  I don't think so.

 

As for why are zubes and gio in instead of either of them.  First of all, not the same role, but while neither are great offensively, they aren't a negative overall.  Ryder is a negative now.  If he is't scoring, he hurts the team.  That penalty after being sat a few games pretty much was the last straw.  Entirely his fault, no, but it isn't like he stepped his game up when things got tough either.  Tootoo has replaced Ryder lately, not 8 or 11.

 

Havlet has shown glimpses with patty, but once the injuries started, never got it back.

 

Joe