Triumph Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Why can't you see that I am separating what Lou has done to what is going on with this team now. It's a mess. I've said a few things about Lou after the season ended, so I've been riding him hard for a few months. That's it. I'm not trying to moonwalk at all. But if you can't be harsh towards a GM for a team that's missed the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years, has 2 forwards (combining for under 60 points), under the age of 30, and no forward prospects that did anything in the AHL coming up in the next few years...well then I don't know what to tell you. It's not personal. Just like it isn't that personal when Lou fires coaches or trades away celebrated players. Lou is one of the greatest ever, but not anymore. It was time for a change. Did I read into some of Lou's quotes, maybe a bit, but I don't think that much. I know a lot of people agreed, but felt great loyalty towards Lou. That's understandable. The issue for me isn't that the team is a mess, it's that Lou may not have the ability to fix it on his own. I don't have a ton of faith in Shero to be able to either, but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArmySports Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 How long till Chere asks Shero about Kovy? I'm surprised he didn't mention him on the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I really like our owners. They've got the balls to make necessary moves. +1!!! This was the best news I've read all day. Now if Conte gets canned, that will be the icing on the cake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 LL is all I've ever known as a Devils fan. Truly a sad end of a great era. As a fan, the exits of LL's and Marty have been quite disappointing. Don't know how to feel about Shero. This is a feeling of excitement yet trepidation. Still filtering thru the bombshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I assure you that when it comes to the roster, Ray Shero is now calling the shots. Shero had options. He wasn't coming here to not call the shots. Agree, Shero does not come here long term with stipulations and handcuffs.. no smart gm does that. look no further than john idzik with the NYJ. a case study on that failure, Shero is not a rookie. also, to take the similarity further, the jets new GM waited till the day after the draft to clean out the scouting dept. so the scouting staff will be retained through this draft , with no guarantee of the future its nice to get a second pair of eyes on this draft, the only question is whether its too late in the process to make a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Shero wants to put a more offensive minded system in place and build a team around it. That alone is music to my ears. If I were him, I'd fire Conte immediately and the entire scouting team because they won't help him find any goal scorers for the new system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Agree, Shero does not come here long term with stipulations and handcuffs.. no smart gm does that. look no further than john idzik with the NYJ. a case study on that failure, Shero is not a rookie. also, to take the similarity further, the jets new GM waited till the day after the draft to clean out the scouting dept. so the scouting staff will be retained through this draft , with no guarantee of the future its nice to get a second pair of eyes on this draft, the only question is whether its too late in the process to make a difference If anything, the second pair of eyes might help out in the later rounds, but otherwise it's basically a coin flip whether the people the theoretical new people choose in the first two rounds are better than what the old group would come up with. The Devils first round picks have not been outside the mainstream for a long, long time. If there was a fault it was being too obsessed over the big forward that doesn't score a lot over the smaller forward who does, but that's my own oversimplification as well. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 What's the worst that could happen? We miss the playoffs again? We haven't made them 3 years in a row anyway. No cups in 13 years to boot, but yeah, when you have a year's supply of Kleenex, hand lotion and 5 copies of our 03 DVD that you watch nightly, you forget that there has been playoff hockey this decade that, for the most part, the Devils have not been a part of. I applaud the move, we needed a change in direction. I am forever greatful that Lou built winners while I was growing up which, naturally, helped stoke the embers that is my passion for the Devils. I also glad he stepped aside, in part, and is letting someone else come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm not sure a more offensive system is the answer. The system is fine, it is a personnel issue, the Devils really have no top 6 forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 The issue for me isn't that the team is a mess, it's that Lou may not have the ability to fix it on his own. I don't have a ton of faith in Shero to be able to either, but we'll see. I'm in agreement on both statements. Lou's presence does make it tough, and actually, even him not being there would be tough. It's easier to come in to a situation after a GM was canned, and say "time to clean up this mess, we've missed the playoff the last 3 seasons, and to get where we need to be, a lot of changes are needed." It's not that simple when the guy you are replacing is a legend in the business and with the organization AND is someone you report to. Definitely complicates things. Does anyone know if Shero will be hiring his own assistants? I know the owners would be willing to give him all the resources possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Does anyone know if Shero will be hiring his own assistants? I know the owners would be willing to give him all the resources possible. According to the Penguins' beat writer Tom Fitzgerald is likely to follow. https://twitter.com/MolinariPG/status/595318770161340417 His profile: http://penguins.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=56242 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hmmm, Shero apparently had a terrible track record at drafting skilled forwards in Pittsburgh. I don't like to read that at all. Hopefully he learned what not to do during his time away from hockey. Otherwise, we're basically sh*t out of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) I'm in agreement on both statements. Lou's presence does make it tough, and actually, even him not being there would be tough. It's easier to come in to a situation after a GM was canned, and say "time to clean up this mess, we've missed the playoff the last 3 seasons, and to get where we need to be, a lot of changes are needed." It's not that simple when the guy you are replacing is a legend in the business and with the organization AND is someone you report to. Definitely complicates things. Does anyone know if Shero will be hiring his own assistants? I know the owners would be willing to give him all the resources possible. With Lou as President, and Shero saying it's important to keep the present system in place but add "more offense upfront" I'm not sure how much is going to change. I was pretty hopeful when I read his clips here and there after the press conference and it sounded like an offensive overhaul was in the works but now that I'm reading more complete quotes as they're becoming available, it doesn't sound like he's going to clean house at all. More like...I'm going to work with Lou and brainstorm ways to add offense. Only problem is both he and Lou had a miserable track record at drafting scoring forwards the past few years. I really hope he wasn't hired to be an understudy of sorts to Lou. But Lou is his boss and Lou will probably make sure "his system" remains in place. Hmmm.... Edited May 5, 2015 by slasher72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm in agreement on both statements. Lou's presence does make it tough, and actually, even him not being there would be tough. It's easier to come in to a situation after a GM was canned, and say "time to clean up this mess, we've missed the playoff the last 3 seasons, and to get where we need to be, a lot of changes are needed." It's not that simple when the guy you are replacing is a legend in the business and with the organization AND is someone you report to. Definitely complicates things. Does anyone know if Shero will be hiring his own assistants? I know the owners would be willing to give him all the resources possible. It's not that Lou's presence makes it difficult, it's just hard to take over a team that's where the Devils are right now. They are not destitute. They have a top D pairing and a great goalie. They have some very good young players. They just don't have much else. What the Devils are missing is the one thing that it's almost impossible to fix. But it's also impossible to step in and say 'We can't fix this'. Again, it's all going to come down to free agency and whether they trade some of these picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseydevils0324 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Shero pulled off one of my most favorite trades in the last five, maybe ten years. Trading Neal and Niskanen for Goligoski was a heist. Niskanen for Goligoski makes it a wash with the slightest edge for Pittsburgh, and getting Neal back in the process made it an absolute steal. They were able to get solid production from Niskanen, and got a goal scorer they needed in Neal. As for playoff appearances, they made back-to-back finals appearances in 08 and 09, winning one. They exited in the second round of 2010 when they faced a hot Halak and Cammalleri with Montreal, who also ousted the top seeded Caps. Might've experienced some burnout themselves with cup runs in previous seasons. 2011 I give him a huge pass. The Pens were probably destined for a cup that year. Crosby was firing on all cylinders that season, at least until the Winter Classic game when Steckel ran into him and triggered concussion problems. Malkin went down soon after, but the still Pens almost defeated Tampa in the first round without their two superstars. 2012, the Flyers got into Pittsburgh's head and Fleury was a disaster. Probably helped us out, if anything. Pittsburgh seemed to outmatch us in the regular season that year, and we were able to walkover Philly in the semi-finals. 2013, Shero was poised to make them contend when he acquired Jokinen, Morrow and Iggy. They made it to the conference finals and were shutdown by Boston. 2014, second round exit to the Rangers. 2015, Shero and Bylsma gone, Pens almost miss playoffs and get eliminated in the first five games of the first round. Give them a pass due to beat-up defense, but still not a great first season for Rutherford. If anything I feel Bylsma was the one to go for not coaching well enough, and mix it with some terribad playoff goaltending performances from MAF. Shero made moves to help strengthen the roster and surround his superstars with adequate talent. In the cap era, he did a good job finding players like Kunitz and Dupuis, who've complemented Crosby to this day. I wouldn't rest the drafting solely on his shoulders. They were able to turn most of there 1sts into NHLers, despite drafting in the later part of the first round recently. Edited May 5, 2015 by Jerseydevils0324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilNurn Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 It's not that Lou's presence makes it difficult, it's just hard to take over a team that's where the Devils are right now. They are not destitute. They have a top D pairing and a great goalie. They have some very good young players. They just don't have much else. What the Devils are missing is the one thing that it's almost impossible to fix. But it's also impossible to step in and say 'We can't fix this'. Again, it's all going to come down to free agency and whether they trade some of these picks. Every time I think about this team with Kovalchuk and Parise I really think we would be not only making the playoffs, but being close to Cup Contenders perennially. You're right, we're missing unfixable things because we're missing the kinds of players we don't have the opportunity to draft. We'd have to suck more for that, but it's tough to say that would even improve the team in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Hmmm, Shero apparently had a terrible track record at drafting skilled forwards in Pittsburgh. I don't like to read that at all. Hopefully he learned what not to do during his time away from hockey. Otherwise, we're basically sh*t out of luck. What GM outside of Detroit and picking in the late 20s for the majority of their tenure has a good track record drafting? Shero parlayed a lot of picks via trade into immediate help type of talent, which is what Lou did a lot of when the Devils were perennial contenders. The Pens' big problem during the Shero years was also largely defensive. When you have Malkin and Crosby (and you can count even Kunitz in this discussion before he started declining and Letang from an offensive D perspective) its a lot easier to get away with not drafting a lot of offensive talent with late picks when you can rely on having one of the best centermen in the game (if not the best player period) anchoring your team and can use draft picks to get players for the present. There are not many teams in Pittsburgh's position in respect to standings during those successful years that draft well at a high rate. Its a lot more hit and miss when you've traded a first round pick at the deadline or are picking at 20 or lower for the most part and in some years not having a first round pick at all. Shero is not here to rebuild. The owners and Lou clearly are bringing someone in to get us competitive without sacrificing the present. I find it hard to be too critical of Shero and drafting when there's a lot more hands involved in drafting than there are with say making trades or signing free agents and Shero's approach in that respect is a lot more positive than negative. If he fails to get us to a respectable level relatively soon (2 years tops), I don't think Shero will be here long. This is easily the most important offseason and should be the most interesting in this team's history. All bets are off. Edited May 5, 2015 by ghdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-SS Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Every time I think about this team with Kovalchuk and Parise I really think we would be not only making the playoffs, but being close to Cup Contenders perennially. You're right, we're missing unfixable things because we're missing the kinds of players we don't have the opportunity to draft. We'd have to suck more for that, but it's tough to say that would even improve the team in the long run. Exactly why I have not been happy of Lou's work lately, but at the same time dont and cant just give him the "full blame bomb". Parise not being signed because of Ilya's money was a huge blow, but to then lose Ilya too...how was it ever going to be possible to just replace these guys ? Then again, that Ilya contract might be argued by some as being Lou's work and that his lack of vision lead to Parise leaving, but to be honest, I think Vanderbeek wanted a superstar and some pressure was applied on Lou to go and get the guy and even more to sign him at whatever's cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Exactly why I have not been happy of Lou's work lately, but at the same time dont and cant just give him the "full blame bomb". Parise not being signed because of Ilya's money was a huge blow, but to then lose Ilya too...how was it ever going to be possible to just replace these guys ? Then again, that Ilya contract might be argued by some as being Lou's work and that his lack of vision lead to Parise leaving, but to be honest, I think Vanderbeek wanted a superstar and some pressure was applied on Lou to go and get the guy and even more to sign him at whatever's cost. I personally think Kovalchuk is firmly to be blamed on Vanderbeek. I also have a feeling that Kovy's "leaving" was a mutual agreement between him and the franchise rather than him just outright bolting. We were in a massive hole with VBK's ownership and I would not be surprised at all if getting out of that Kovy contract was imperative to selling the team. Parise I blame more on Lou. We know now that Lou went to Zach in January with an offer and than stopped negotiations until the offseason. The next season we re-sign Zajac very early IMO a reaction b/c of the Parise departure. Parise was Niedermayer Pt II. I think he wanted Minnesota from the get go (as Scott wanted Rob) and there wasn't a whole lot we could do to keep him. I don't have any ill will towards Zach or Niedermayer at this point b/c they earned the right to make the decisions for themselves, but I think the writing was on the wall for both of those guys and was more clear with Parise. When Parise wasn't re-signed long term the year we acquired/re-signed Kovy, I did not think we had a good chance to keep him. That said, those two guys alone aren't what has made me desire a new vision in Lou's chair. He's made some good moves (the Kovy trade was absolutely worth doing at the time, the Cory trade) and some decent FA acquisitions (Cammalleri and Jagr to a lesser extent), but the bad moves and bad contracts and for a few years the constant coaching carousel were not healthy for this franchise. Of course there were extenuating circumstances (VBK etc), but since the lockout Lou's successes have been fluky in comparison to shrewd and there have been more WTFs. I've no ill will for Lou. He's the rock of this franchise and should have a statue and his name in the rafters, but it's time for a new vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 You knew the time was coming for Lou, but I'm still pretty shocked. I was certainly hoping for someone who is not a retread, not one from the Old Boy's Club. Julien Brisebois, or bringing in someone like Kyle Dubas (someone LIKE him, but not him obviously) to breathe new life into it. I'm not sure Ray Shero is The Guy for that or the guy who will/can do that. His issues with Pittsburgh are by and large the same as with the Devils. Did fine in drafting/signing young D, beyond terrible at drafting forwards. Shero can swing a good trade, but so could Lou. I'm afraid I see this more as a lateral move than anything else. Shero will maintain the Status Quo but maybe not knowingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 You knew the time was coming for Lou, but I'm still pretty shocked. I was certainly hoping for someone who is not a retread, not one from the Old Boy's Club. Julien Brisebois, or bringing in someone like Kyle Dubas (someone LIKE him, but not him obviously) to breathe new life into it. I'm not sure Ray Shero is The Guy for that or the guy who will/can do that. His issues with Pittsburgh are by and large the same as with the Devils. Did fine in drafting/signing young D, beyond terrible at drafting forwards. Shero can swing a good trade, but so could Lou. I'm afraid I see this more as a lateral move than anything else. Shero will maintain the Status Quo but maybe not knowingly. Well, Lou's natural way of doing things made it tough to find someone like that. He wants to keep things hush-hush, and that's not conducive to a full blown search where you are asking 10-15 GMs to interview their assistants. However, there aren't that many Kyle Dubas types out there in the NHL. The old boy's club which now includes former recent NHL great's for that team is pretty much the norm for each team. It'll be interesting to see if the summer of analytics nets a few of them in big management roles, but for now...I'm not sure what Lou was going to find. I bet it was very important for him that the Devils be left in the hands of an experienced GM that had won. Perhaps Shero can build a younger new-aged staff. Maybe Sunny will have a bigger role. As for Shero, I'm willing to look pass what happened in Pitsburgh to a major extent. This is a completely different situation for him that probably include a lot less pressure from management to win in the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I have let some time pass before posting about this change. IMO this move was ownership driven, meaning Lou steps out as GM and stays as President, they saw that after the coaching change nothing improved so it meant we didn't have the talent of the team to make a playoff run and they would be losing playoff revenue, and enough is enough. I think Lou has a year left on his contract, so this is a smooth change. The team we knew last season was a mess and I agree with Tri, that Lou alone, Shero alone or both probably couldn't fix it in a year. They would however expect a major change in two years that would get the team back into the playoffs. I think Shero will learn from his mistakes of the past and should be allowed a clean slate. The owners weren't going to fire Lou that would have been a major business mistake. Lou will retire after this coming season and the team will be Shero's team 100%. I will be pleasantly surprised if they make the playoffs this coming season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Well, Lou's natural way of doing things made it tough to find someone like that. He wants to keep things hush-hush, and that's not conducive to a full blown search where you are asking 10-15 GMs to interview their assistants. However, there aren't that many Kyle Dubas types out there in the NHL. The old boy's club which now includes former recent NHL great's for that team is pretty much the norm for each team. It'll be interesting to see if the summer of analytics nets a few of them in big management roles, but for now...I'm not sure what Lou was going to find. I bet it was very important for him that the Devils be left in the hands of an experienced GM that had won. Perhaps Shero can build a younger new-aged staff. Maybe Sunny will have a bigger role. As for Shero, I'm willing to look pass what happened in Pitsburgh to a major extent. This is a completely different situation for him that probably include a lot less pressure from management to win in the moment. All you say is true, but I'm taking a leaf out of SD's book here and wanted Lou to do things differently for once. I obviously understand why he didn't, because it's Lou we're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim777 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Surprised by the timing, but not upset at Lou stepping down. I will hold my opinion of Shero until I hear the guy speak, but I think this brings the Devils into the 'modern era', so it's a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitchmack Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think this may have been on the cards for a while. In hindsight Lou has been clearing the slate for a new GM to give him the best start. Shero gets to install his own coach. He has a lot of room on the cap. A top six pick on the draft that history will give him credit for. And, he inherits a team that is already floundering so he's got some leeway with fans and ownership if results don't pick up in the near future. Thanks for an amazing run Lou & welcome aboard and good luck Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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