NHL: 24 team playoffs soon. Devil's season is over

[jagknife]

I think they picked Vegas cause of the hotels’ ability to support hundreds of players in an all inclusive setting while still “distancing.” 

[NJDfan1711]

35 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I think they picked Vegas cause of the hotels’ ability to support hundreds of players in an all inclusive setting while still “distancing.” 

Ah yeah, I think I heard that too - makes sense. 

[mfitz804]

46 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I think they picked Vegas cause of the hotels’ ability to support hundreds of players in an all inclusive setting while still “distancing.” 

Plus coke and whores are easy to find. That's important to some. 

[RunninWithTheDevil]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Plus coke and whores are easy to find. That's important to Ranger players. 

fixed it

[jagknife]

2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Plus coke and whores are easy to find. That's important to some. 

Dubinsky still playing??

[MadDog2020]

Hopefully Patty gets the call. https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/who-will-join-jarome-iginla-in-the-2020-hall-of-fame-class

[mfitz804]

 

Per NJD Twitter:

"Schneider hit the ice today with Zacha and Zajac as part of the league's Phase 2 of returning to action."

Uhh, did someone forget to tell them?

Edited June 23, 2020 by mfitz804

[mfitz804]

8 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Hopefully Patty gets the call. https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/who-will-join-jarome-iginla-in-the-2020-hall-of-fame-class

Hope so, but looking at the eligible list, I see at least 4-5 guys that will probably get in before Elias. Not saying they should, just saying they probably will. 

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Hope so, but looking at the eligible list, I see at least 4-5 guys that will probably get in before Elias. Not saying they should, just saying they probably will. 

The author states Alfredsson is a shoe-in, but Elias ‘compiled’? Compiled what, over 1,000 points despite losing a full season and a half to lockouts, plus another half season to hepatitis? Bullsh!t. THN has always had a Devils bias.

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

The author states Alfredsson is a shoe-in, but Elias ‘compiled’? Compiled what, over 1,000 points despite losing a full season and a half to lockouts, plus another half season to hepatitis? Bullsh!t. THN has always had a Devils bias.

Compiled himself a couple Stanley Cups, also. 

Alfredsson was a more prolific scorer, with 132 points more than Elias in only 6 more games played. Elias, of course, was playing hurt at the end and his numbers after 2012 were greatly diminished. 

Lockouts were even as players were playing at the same time.

Give Alfredsson the extra points, give Elias two Stanley Cups, and those players should be close to even; not one "shoe-in" and one compiler. 

 

[Nicomo]

23 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

The author states Alfredsson is a shoe-in, but Elias ‘compiled’? Compiled what, over 1,000 points despite losing a full season and a half to lockouts, plus another half season to hepatitis? Bullsh!t. THN has always had a Devils bias.

Yep. I wrote them a letter years ago (before I canceled my subscription) calling them out on it. Think it might have been after a certain cover story about Marty being one of the greats, “but please don’t let his team win another Stanley” or some such bs. Three guesses on their main reason why...

As far as Elias being a “compiler” GTFOH with that sh!t. He’s one of the most underrated players of 00’s. If he played on a league darling franchise he would have been a big star. 

[Satans Hockey]

I don't even see Iginla as a sure fire first ballot hall of famer when I compare him to Elias. I know Iginla had two 50 goal seasons and led the league in goals a few times but meh. 

Iginla had 1554 games 625 goals 675 assists 1300 points. Points per game is 0.836

Elias had 1240 games 408 goals 617 assists 1025 points. Points per game is 0.826

Playoffs

Elias has twice the amount of games played and has 2 cups and 4 finals appearances and lots of huge clutch moments...... Iginla had one actual run in the playoffs in 2004, other than that it's bare bones. I know it's a team sport and blah blah blah but he was on teams that mainly missed the playoffs and only made it out of the first round 1 time in his like 16 seasons in Calgary and only 2 other times overall and it was one time each in Pittsburgh and Boston. That lone 2004 run was the only time he made it out of the second round during his entire career. 

Obviously I'm a bit bias but I'd still take Elias over Iginla any day and I don't think the margin of difference is that huge for this article to say one is a sure fire first ballot hall of famer and one is compiler. fvck outta here. 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Satans Hockey

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

Hopefully Patty gets the call. https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/who-will-join-jarome-iginla-in-the-2020-hall-of-fame-class

Still feels like it's too early for him to be inducted.

He obviously meant a lot to us (much in the same way Marleau means a ton to Sharks fans, and Doan means everything to Yotes fans...not equating Elias to either player, as I think he's better than both of them...just that those guys are likely similarly loved by their fanbases).  I have Elias as a borderline case myself...if he gets in, I'll be very happy about it, and thrilled for him, but if he doesn't, I won't consider it some major travesty or slight...that's not to say I won't be bummed about it if it doesn't happen for him.  The fan in me 100% wants to see it happen for him someday.  

Now, as we know, the Devils didn't always do right by Elias...I don't think they always found the right kinds of players to play alongside him.  He might very well have put up better glamour numbers with another team, in a different system.  But going strictly by his Devils numbers...there's a lot of good with some very good sprinkled in...I'd say his best year was actually 2003-04, in that he stubbornly found a way to get his numbers that year despite not getting a whole lot of help from his team (and no way does that EGG line enjoy any success with out the "E" part...he put up an insane 18 G and 18 A in his final 24 GP that season). 

Take out his earlier development seasons and final decline seasons, he did have a very long peak (age 23-37), where he was pretty steady...averaged 0.9 points per game over 989 GP (356 G and 535 A for 891 Pts, and was a +155).  So about 30 G and 44 A per 82 GP for the "meat" of his career.  

Is he an absolute, gotta-get-in-someday Hall Of Famer?  Not so sure...no matter how I look at him, he screams "borderline" to me...and to be clear, I find NO shame in that...to even be a debatable Hall Of Famer still means you were a hell of a lot better than many of your peers, and whether he gets in or not, I won't view his contributions to the Devils any differently than I do now.  But like I said, I'm rooting for him to get in all the way.  

[mfitz804]

24 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I don't even see Iginla as a sure fire first ballot hall of famer when I compare him to Elias. I know Iginla had two 50 goal seasons and led the league in goals a few times but meh. 

Iginla had 1554 games 625 goals 675 assists 1300 points. Points per game is 0.836

Elias had 1240 games 408 goals 617 assists 1025 points. Points per game is 0.826

Playoffs

Elias has twice the amount of games played and has 2 cups and 4 finals appearances and lots of huge clutch moments...... Iginla had one actual run in the playoffs in 2004, other than that it's bare bones. I know it's a team sport and blah blah blah but he was on teams that mainly missed the playoffs and only made it out of the first round 1 time in his like 16 seasons in Calgary and only 2 other times overall and it was one time each in Pittsburgh and Boston. That lone 2004 run was the only time he made it out of the second round during his entire career.

Comparing those two players...which one of them was a "compiler"?

[Nicomo]

He won a couple medals with the Czech’s in the Olympics and World’s, too. And ofc its the hockey HoF, not just the NHL. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

29 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I don't even see Iginla as a sure fire first ballot hall of famer when I compare him to Elias. I know Iginla had two 50 goal seasons and led the league in goals a few times but meh. 

Iginla had 1554 games 625 goals 675 assists 1300 points. Points per game is 0.836

Elias had 1240 games 408 goals 617 assists 1025 points. Points per game is 0.826

Playoffs

Elias has twice the amount of games played and has 2 cups and 4 finals appearances and lots of huge clutch moments...... Iginla had one actual run in the playoffs in 2004, other than that it's bare bones. I know it's a team sport and blah blah blah but he was on teams that mainly missed the playoffs and only made it out of the first round 1 time in his like 16 seasons in Calgary and only 2 other times overall and it was one time each in Pittsburgh and Boston. That lone 2004 run was the only time he made it out of the second round during his entire career. 

Obviously I'm a bit bias but I'd still take Elias over Iginla any day and I don't think the margin of difference is that huge for this article to say one is a sure fire first ballot hall of famer and one is compiler. fvck outta here. 

 

As far as Iginla's NHL career goes, when looking at the "meat" portion of his career (basically his overall peak years...in his case, age 22 through 37), he had a hell of a run for 15 seasons.  1158 GP, 527 G, 566 A, 1093 Pts, +95, 0.943 points per game.  37 G and 40 A per 82 GP (30 or more goals 12X, including 40+ twice and 50+ twice).    

You could probably make an argument that this stretch alone in the Dead Puck Era should get in him on the first ballot.  Those are pretty impressive numbers.  

 

[NJDevils1214]

Context matters. They both have a legitimate claim to be considered based on their respective accomplishments. I'd rather not see a player not get in because of loyalty to a specific team/owner that couldn't build around them. The precedent that sets is just lame...is being traded at the deadline, going to a top contender, then winning some major accomplishment should determine a HoF bid?

[mfitz804]

12 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Context matters. They both have a legitimate claim to be considered based on their respective accomplishments. I'd rather not see a player not get in because of loyalty to a specific team/owner that couldn't build around them. The precedent that sets is just lame...is being traded at the deadline, going to a top contender, then winning some major accomplishment should determine a HoF bid?

I don’t think anyone should be disputing that Iginla gets in. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don’t think anyone should be disputing that Iginla gets in. 

Yeah for sure...that "meat" part of Iginla's career that I put up is worthy all on its own, as far as this era goes.  

Elias' "meat" seasons by comparison are really really good and many players would kill to have had a run like his, but I'm not quite sure it's truly H-O-F worthy.  Certainly not earlier-entry Hall of Fame.  He'll probably have to wait until his late years of eligibility to get in, which I think is fair.

 

I've brought it up before, but the guy who really shouldn't get in down the line is Marleau...nor should Doan, for that matter.  In Marleau's case, there's something to be said for somehow damned near NEVER missing games and managing to play in over 1700 regular season contests, but that alone doesn't make one a Hall-Of-Famer.  Using the same "meat" years metric (excluding early development and later decline years and focusing on the prime seasons), Marleau had a 15-year stretch where he put up 916 points in 1179 games (30 G and 33 A per 82 GP, 0.777 Points Per Game).  That's very solid, no one would dispute that...and Marleau's freakish durability allowed him to compile well over 500 goals and 600 assists for his career...and I have nothing against compilers, because I think there's always something to be said for guys who manage to be good and manage to do it over multiple decades.  But being solid to good and seemingly impervious to injury does not a H-O-Famer make.  Very nice career, and he'll be Mr. Shark for a long long LONG time.  Basically if I'm arguing that Elias is borderline (and I definitely consider him to be a better player than Marleau), then I can't make any case for Marleau.

As far as Doan goes...he shouldn't get any consideration at all.  Not knocking him, but the numbers just aren't there at all.  There's never any shame in being a solid player, and playing 1540 games in the NHL.  Fine career, and he has plenty to be proud of...can't all be superstars or even stars.  But nowhere near H-O-F caliber.    

[mfitz804]

Have to agree regarding Doan. 

Can also agree about Marleau, especially where Pierre Turgeon and 1300+ NHL points isn't in. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

26 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Have to agree regarding Doan. 

Can also agree about Marleau, especially where Pierre Turgeon and 1300+ NHL points isn't in. 

The knock against Turgeon has always been the era he played in, and the lack of individual hardware (one Lady Byng) and no Cups.  I think some see his one monster year (58 G and 74 A in 1992-93, which saw a lot of monster years...like Mogilny and Selanne's 76-goal seasons...14 players managed 50+ goals that season) and think that's blowing up his sample a bit.  

Yeah he put up a hell of a lot of points not to get in, but I guess if he ever makes it, then cases start to be made for other Live Puck guys (like Bernie Nicholls), whose numbers look a lot better now than they did back then.  

[mfitz804]

38 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The knock against Turgeon has always been the era he played in, and the lack of individual hardware (one Lady Byng) and no Cups.  I think some see his one monster year (58 G and 74 A in 1992-93, which saw a lot of monster years...like Mogilny and Selanne's 76-goal seasons...14 players managed 50+ goals that season) and think that's blowing up his sample a bit.  

Yeah he put up a hell of a lot of points not to get in, but I guess if he ever makes it, then cases start to be made for other Live Puck guys (like Bernie Nicholls), whose numbers look a lot better now than they did back then.  

I don't disagree, I'm just saying if you can argue that Turgeon at 1,320 or whatever it is shouldn't be in, you can make the same argument for Marleau. 

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The knock against Turgeon has always been the era he played in, and the lack of individual hardware (one Lady Byng) and no Cups.  I think some see his one monster year (58 G and 74 A in 1992-93, which saw a lot of monster years...like Mogilny and Selanne's 76-goal seasons...14 players managed 50+ goals that season) and think that's blowing up his sample a bit.  

Yeah he put up a hell of a lot of points not to get in, but I guess if he ever makes it, then cases start to be made for other Live Puck guys (like Bernie Nicholls), whose numbers look a lot better now than they did back then.  

I always felt that Turgeon is one of the most underappreciated players of the last 50 years.  It is possible he could have had another 1-2 more monster years if it wasn't for that hit by Hunter in the 93 playoffs as he was never the same again.  While he probably would have been slowed a little by the Dead Puck era moving in by the mid to late 90's, I still think he would have had better numbers.

He also had that monster year with Steve Thomas and Derek King on his wings.  Not exactly ssnipers like LaFontaine had with Mogilny up in Buffalo that season.

[mfitz804]

We used to pronounce it Turdjohn back in the day. 

[SterioDesign]

8 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Yep. I wrote them a letter years ago (before I canceled my subscription) calling them out on it. Think it might have been after a certain cover story about Marty being one of the greats, “but please don’t let his team win another Stanley” or some such bs. Three guesses on their main reason why...

As far as Elias being a “compiler” GTFOH with that sh!t. He’s one of the most underrated players of 00’s. If he played on a league darling franchise he would have been a big star. 

Oh lord you totally pulled a Karen and wanted to speak with the manager there lolol