Satans Hockey Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, Oglethorpe13 said: I could see that, but it's still kind of a headscratcher to sign Foote when he had possible involvement as well. That was the bigger gamble in my eyes, even if he only ended up on the lineup because of injuries. Now the devils have ties to 2 players making headlines for all the wrong reasons instead of one. I figured we signed him simply to be an AHL guy and his brother was here. He only played on the main roster this year because we have had so many injuries this season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said: I figured we signed him simply to be an AHL guy and his brother was here. He only played on the main roster this year because we have had so many injuries this season. And he was also believed to have been cleared at the time that he was signed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 23 minutes ago, Oglethorpe13 said: I could see that, but it's still kind of a headscratcher to sign Foote when he had possible involvement as well. That was the bigger gamble in my eyes, even if he only ended up on the lineup because of injuries. Now the devils have ties to 2 players making headlines for all the wrong reasons instead of one. Unfortunately, I guess they just took him at his word. Here’s an older article that listed who had made what statements when this originally blew up in the media https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/hockey-canada-scandal-sexual-assault-2018-world-juniors-team/hhc54xdapaqx5l29kuimp09g#:~:text=The following players have come,%2C Taylor Raddysh%2C Sam Steel%2C Victor Mete and Jordan Kyrou confirmed that they did not attend the gala and were not in London at the time of the incident. The following players have come out either via personal statement or with their agency to say that they were not involved with the allegations: Jake Bean, Kale Clague, Max Comtois, Dillon Dube, Dante Fabbro, Cal Foote, Jonah Gadjovich, Carter Hart, Brett Howden, Cale Makar, Colton Point, Taylor Raddysh, Sam Steel, Tyler Steenbergen, Robert Thomas and Conor Timmins. The following players have stated that they have fully cooperated with the investigation but declined to comment further: Boris Katchouk, Drake Batherson and Michael McLeod. Alex Formenton was the lone player that did not made any comments to date. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 My take is that Hockey Canada settled civil charges quietly with this woman, very quietly. The players figured they were in the clear , but then the woman saw the players moving up the NHL ladder decided the take the case to the police. The reverse of a lot of cases where criminal proceedings come before civil damages cases. OJ Simpson was found not guilty but paid a ton in civil damages. She probably won't get addl $$ out of this, just satisfaction of seeing these guys careers blown up. Maybe fairly so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglethorpe13 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Lateralous said: Unfortunately, I guess they just took him at his word. Here’s an older article that listed who had made what statements when this originally blew up in the media https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/hockey-canada-scandal-sexual-assault-2018-world-juniors-team/hhc54xdapaqx5l29kuimp09g#:~:text=The following players have come,%2C Taylor Raddysh%2C Sam Steel%2C Victor Mete and Jordan Kyrou confirmed that they did not attend the gala and were not in London at the time of the incident. The following players have come out either via personal statement or with their agency to say that they were not involved with the allegations: Jake Bean, Kale Clague, Max Comtois, Dillon Dube, Dante Fabbro, Cal Foote, Jonah Gadjovich, Carter Hart, Brett Howden, Cale Makar, Colton Point, Taylor Raddysh, Sam Steel, Tyler Steenbergen, Robert Thomas and Conor Timmins. The following players have stated that they have fully cooperated with the investigation but declined to comment further: Boris Katchouk, Drake Batherson and Michael McLeod. Alex Formenton was the lone player that did not made any comments to date. It just sucks no matter how you look at it. Lots of interesting names on that list, though. Could you imagine if Makar was involved... oof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Were you bitching about him being on the team when he scored that big goal in Game 7? How about when Fitz re-signed him this offseason? Where was the outcry about not cutting bait then? I don’t recall any posts from you during the season that said “Yeah, he’s a better player now than he ever was, but how can the Devils continue to employ this scumbag?!” Not fair to down a few hindsight cocktails and suddenly have all of the answers to how the Devils should’ve handled this when no official charges had been brought. And not like the Devils are the only organization to have a player being charged. We have no idea what any of these franchises knew about these players. No but we're the only one with 'two' lol...even now it's hard for me to ding Fitz because it's impossible to know what he actually KNEW and when about either player, but then again I didn't want to ding the apparent scumbag either based off of his...no commenting of the situation when most other people issued public denials (mostly cause public denials don't mean jacksh!t anyway - exhibit A the other scumbag Foote), but here we are with one guy who no-commented and another who was more vociferous on his innocence both being hauled away. Edited February 2 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 8 hours ago, point said: My take is that Hockey Canada settled civil charges quietly with this woman, very quietly. The players figured they were in the clear , but then the woman saw the players moving up the NHL ladder decided the take the case to the police. The reverse of a lot of cases where criminal proceedings come before civil damages cases. OJ Simpson was found not guilty but paid a ton in civil damages. She probably won't get addl $$ out of this, just satisfaction of seeing these guys careers blown up. Maybe fairly so. Huh? Isn't it pretty well established at this point that the police were contacted the day it happened, hence the texts from one of the players, possibly McLeod, asking the alleged victim to do something about it? Also, the reason this case was reopened is because it got out that Hockey Canada was using a portion of players dues to create a slush fund to quietly settle these types of issues and there was a huge amount of public pressure and outrage, not because she saw them "moving up." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) So looking at all of this through a strictly forensic lens, partially based on McLeod having been hit with a second charge, looks like this is probably what happened (guessing many here have come to similar conclusions): MM and the victim engage in consensual sexual activity, with alcohol being involved...a lot of it. For whatever his reasons, MM later decides to invite his teammates over for a gang bang. Either he and his teammates honestly believe that the victim is into it, or are too inebriated themselves to care that she quite possibly isn't, or even worse, know that she's really not into it at all but knowingly refused to stop. EDIT: as @jagknife added, an unnamed player enters the room and thinks he hears the victim cry "I didn't know what was happening", before he leaves the scene. MM texts the victim sometime later to get her to admit that she was fine with everything that happened. At the time she appears to agree, but who knows if that's how she TRULY felt. Very hard to know what her mental state was after all of that. I'm sure the players' lawyers will try to paint this as having been consensual throughout, and that even if many people don't like the idea of "gang bangs" or what some will definitely consider deviant acts, they need to not judge that aspect of the incident, and instead realize that if everything that happened is found to be consensual, then the players are innocent of sexual assault. The victim's lawyers will say that after the initial consensual act, that the victim was then coerced to engage in additional sexual acts when she was too intoxicated to fight back or stop them, and was then pressured into saying that she was OK with all of it even though she knew that she wasn't. Even if the players are to eventually found to be "innocent", I think their NHL careers are toast regardless. There will be far too many lingering questions after the fact, and no team is going to want to deal with the distractions off the ice, not to mention the disruptions that employing these players can cause both on the ice and within the locker room. And I don't blame franchises one bit for not wanting any part of these players, no matter what a jury decides. Edited February 2 by Colorado Rockies 1976 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: So looking at all of this through a strictly forensic lens, partially based on McLeod having been hit with a second charge, looks like this is probably what happened (guessing many here have come to similar conclusions): MM and the victim engage in consensual sexual activity, with alcohol being involved...a lot of it. For whatever his reasons, MM later decides to invite his teammates over for a gang bang. Either he and his teammates honestly believe that the victim is into it, or are too inebriated themselves to care that she quite possibly isn't, or even worse, know that she's really not into it at all but knowingly refused to stop. MM texts the victim sometime later to get her to admit that she was fine with everything that happened. At the time she appears to agree, but who knows if that's how she TRULY felt. Very hard to know what her mental state was after all of that. I'm sure the players' lawyers will try to paint this as having been consensual throughout, and that even if many people don't like the idea of "gang bangs" or what some will definitely consider deviant acts, they need to not judge that aspect of the incident, and instead realize that if everything that happened is found to be consensual, then the players are innocent of sexual assault. The victim's lawyers will say that after the initial consensual act, that the victim was then coerced to engage in additional sexual acts when she was too intoxicated to fight back or stop them, and was then pressured into saying that she was OK with all of it even though she knew that she wasn't. Even if the players are to eventually found to be "innocent", I think their NHL careers are toast regardless. There will be far too many lingering questions after the fact, and no team is going to want to deal with the distractions off the ice, not to mention the disruptions that employing these players can cause both on the ice and within the locker room. And I don't blame franchises one bit for not wanting any part of these players, no matter what a jury decides. One thing I would add into this summation, at some point an unnamed player entered the room, thought he heard the victim crying, "didn't know what was happening" and then turned around and left. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 17 minutes ago, jagknife said: One thing I would add into this summation, at some point an unnamed player entered the room, thought he heard the victim crying, "didn't know what was happening" and then turned around and left. ...also, why force her to shower before she left? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 17 minutes ago, jagknife said: One thing I would add into this summation, at some point an unnamed player entered the room, thought he heard the victim crying, "didn't know what was happening" and then turned around and left. One question I have: five players have been charged, but I've seen the number "EIGHT" in past articles, re: how many players were present. Who were the other three, and what role did they play in all of this? Did they watch but do nothing? Could she simply not conclusively identify them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: One question I have: five players have been charged, but I've seen the number "EIGHT" in past articles, re: how many players were present. Who were the other three, and what role did they play in all of this? Did they watch but do nothing? Could she simply not conclusively identify them? This was an article from last year where the lawyer for one of the witnesses spoke a little about " his guy" https://www.tsn.ca/agent-says-former-world-junior-player-unsure-of-what-he-witnessed-in-london-hotel-room-1.1848359?tsn-amp “My guy got a text message from one of his teammates that there was a party going on with pizza, so he went up to the room,” the agent said. “He did not know how to process what was going on when he saw what was happening in the room. He did not know if this was consensual group sex or if it was a sexual assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 35 minutes ago, Lateralous said: This was an article from last year where the lawyer for one of the witnesses spoke a little about " his guy" https://www.tsn.ca/agent-says-former-world-junior-player-unsure-of-what-he-witnessed-in-london-hotel-room-1.1848359?tsn-amp “My guy got a text message from one of his teammates that there was a party going on with pizza, so he went up to the room,” the agent said. “He did not know how to process what was going on when he saw what was happening in the room. He did not know if this was consensual group sex or if it was a sexual assault. This was where I thought I read the crying part so I might be distorting/jumbling what’s been reported, apologies if so. Not getting political but what is also bothering me is there are conspiracies talk about pizza being code for sex and/or trafficking or worse, and it is clearly used as a cover here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 44 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: One question I have: five players have been charged, but I've seen the number "EIGHT" in past articles, re: how many players were present. Who were the other three, and what role did they play in all of this? Did they watch but do nothing? Could she simply not conclusively identify them? I couldn’t begin to imagine, as a parent this is overwhelming to try and wrap my head around the scenario where supposed young men wouldn’t step up and do the right thing, let alone behave in such a heinous manner. I want to believe I’m raising my boys the right way and holy hell they’re still VERY young but god I gotta do right by them. this is so awful 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, jagknife said: This was where I thought I read the crying part so I might be distorting/jumbling what’s been reported, apologies if so. Not getting political but what is also bothering me is there are conspiracies talk about pizza being code for sex and/or trafficking or worse, and it is clearly used as a cover here. No, I suspect your recollection is right. The whole thing is so f'ed up. The more you read about it, the worse it gets https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2024/sexual-assault-canadian-world-junior-players-1234764085/ As the accuser told it in a lawsuit, this player then allowed other players to enter his hotel room. Those players, without the accuser’s consent and while she was visibly inebriated, then allegedly inflicted sexual crimes on her, including rape. The players also allegedly tried to frighten her further with golf clubs and pressured her to not tell anyone, including the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, jagknife said: I couldn’t begin to imagine, as a parent this is overwhelming to try and wrap my head around the scenario where supposed young men wouldn’t step up and do the right thing, let alone behave in such a heinous manner. I want to believe I’m raising my boys the right way and holy hell they’re still VERY young but god I gotta do right by them. this is so awful I'm with ya; I'm raising a 15-year-old daughter and I'm already talking to her about not putting herself in a position to ever be taken advantage of. There are times that I'm so scared of what might happen down the line (say, she goes on some Spring Break somewhere), but I do every last thing that I can to arm her with as much information as I possibly can. And I am 100% sure that you are trying to do the same. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puckbuster Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I am disgusted by these players. If she was clearly inebriated then consent means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puckbuster Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 15 hours ago, jagknife said: I couldn’t begin to imagine, as a parent this is overwhelming to try and wrap my head around the scenario where supposed young men wouldn’t step up and do the right thing, let alone behave in such a heinous manner. I want to believe I’m raising my boys the right way and holy hell they’re still VERY young but god I gotta do right by them. this is so awful Words can’t describe the nature of the incident. What the hell were they thinking. These players had their whole lives ahead of them with so much potential. Instead, they get drunk and hold their dicks in their hands waiting to take turns on someone that was described to be inebriated. The excuse is there was consent? And then the Devils go and sign Cal Foote. That really bothers me. I’m sure Fitz knew there was an NHL investigation. I can understand resigning McLeod because he was drafted before the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 https://deadspin.com/carter-hart-nhl-dillon-dube-sex-assault-1851211538 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 15 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: https://deadspin.com/carter-hart-nhl-dillon-dube-sex-assault-1851211538 This is a nothing burger. Hart and Dube signed a 3 year deal and are both RFA after this season. So what, the Flyers and Flames knew that the police were gonna finally put charges in for 2024? Come on now. Foote sucks and is an AHL player so that's why he got a 1 year deal. McLeod's is the only one that raises an eye brow if you wanna go down this route but I think that's a nothing burger too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 4 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said: This is a nothing burger. Hart and Dube signed a 3 year deal and are both RFA after this season. So what, the Flyers and Flames knew that the police were gonna finally put charges in for 2024? Come on now. Foote sucks and is an AHL player so that's why he got a 1 year deal. McLeod's is the only one that raises an eye brow if you wanna go down this route but I think that's a nothing burger too. Agreed. Nothing more than a coincidence and people trying to add more to this story than there already is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said: This is a nothing burger. Hart and Dube signed a 3 year deal and are both RFA after this season. So what, the Flyers and Flames knew that the police were gonna finally put charges in for 2024? Come on now. Foote sucks and is an AHL player so that's why he got a 1 year deal. McLeod's is the only one that raises an eye brow if you wanna go down this route but I think that's a nothing burger too. I agree; but I’ll say this: Bettman went out of his way to say all these guys are pending free agents at his press conference yesterday. Who are the other three guys that didn’t get charged? Why only five? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 4 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: I agree; but I’ll say this: Bettman went out of his way to say all these guys are pending free agents at his press conference yesterday. Who are the other three guys that didn’t get charged? Why only five? He said that because it washes the leagues hands easier this way and in the future he'll just say they no longer play in our league, they definitely lucked out there with the timing of it. Not gonna pretend to know but if the other 3 guys were just in the room but never physically involved maybe she couldn't ever identify them? Could also be that since they didn't actually get physically involved that they simply didn't think any charges would actually stick? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 2/2/2024 at 8:42 AM, Lateralous said: ...also, why force her to shower before she left? They made a video of her saying it was consensual too. It sounds like there was a ringleader and a bunch of followers and it sounds like enough of them felt guilty enough were worried enough that telling her to shower was them thinking it would wash away possible evidence that it even happened. I assume some were worried that she might wake up and go right to the police. At the end of the day it sounds like it was the guys trying to cover their tracks in a sense like something they saw on a crime show, but it didn't end up mattering in the end because the victim obviously remembered enough. Makes me worried about her state of mind when she remembered faces and names too. Maybe some guys were incriminated who weren't even there at the time or left? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Wow I guess I did not realize that MM was the one who called his teammates in... Truly fvcking despicable. Even if he's found criminally innocent, I don't want him back on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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