devlman Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Obviously, if you think someone who's unemployed but still wants to work somehow shouldn't dare exercise his right to find a new team...and that doing so taints THE longest body of work ever spent by an NHL goalie with one team BY FAR, and takes away from a career that was chock full of signature moments. "The end result"? Oh my god, he played seven whole games with another team when his original team didn't want him anymore! The horror! That ruins everything! Now it's not the same! fvcking REALLY?! Has's list says it all, and there's more where they came from. Look, you're one of those people who get can't over it and can't handle the fact that he didn't retire on your terms. And sadly you're not alone. No one is saying it ruins everything - dont be so dramatic. For the most part, it seems some people (myself included) feel it was a shame that just 7 games was the difference between an entire sparkling career with just 1 team. As i said above, he couldve easily gotten that 7 games and then some with the Devils. It was his choice to move on and do what he wants, no one is arguing that. Its just a shame from a fan's perspective that a special one-team career for a HOF didnt happen just for 7 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) No one is saying it ruins everything - dont be so dramatic. For the most part, it seems some people (myself included) feel it was a shame that just 7 games was the difference between an entire sparkling career with just 1 team. As i said above, he couldve easily gotten that 7 games and then some with the Devils. It was his choice to move on and do what he wants, no one is arguing that. Its just a shame from a fan's perspective that a special one-team career for a HOF didnt happen just for 7 games. But Marty was being true to himself (still thought he had something left, even if many (including me) thought otherwise), and I respect that. If he needed those seven games to end his career with peace of mind, good for him. I just think it's unfair to act like that detracts from his accomplishments and what was a tremendous career. I think the balance of what he did before means he should get a pass from those who have a problem with the St. Louis games. Just something I feel strongly about. Edited September 3, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Obviously, if you think someone who's unemployed but still wants to work somehow shouldn't dare exercise his right to find a new team...and that doing so taints THE longest body of work ever spent by an NHL goalie with one team BY FAR, and takes away from a career that was chock full of signature moments. "The end result"? Oh my god, he played seven whole games with another team when his original team didn't want him anymore! The horror! That ruins everything! Now it's not the same! fvcking REALLY?! Has's list says it all, and there's more where they came from. Look, you're one of those people who get can't over it and can't handle the fact that he didn't retire on your terms. And sadly you're not alone. Again you are under some weird impression that when I called his 7 games in St. Louis wasteful that I was somehow talking about his entire career. I was not, and I corrected you several times. Yet to this day you maintain otherwise. That's some weird cognitive dissonance you are showing off here. At no point did I or anyone ever say anything about ruining his entire career, that's another cr1976 fabrication that you have made to fit this weird "omg look at these fake fans!" narrative that you are desperately trying to sell. I love and appreciate everything that Marty has given to this organization. I proudly hang his jersey in my closet, I have an autographed paper plate that my aunt was able to get him to sign at a restaurant in super stalker like fashion, when I was young Marty almost ran me over with his car while I was waiting for autographs which at the time (and still do) I thought was the coolest thing every. While he is not my favorite Devil (that honor goes to Mr. Terreri) he's very close, and like many others here, I have grown up while watching every single Brodeur game. Believe it or not, being disappointed in his final decision and appreciating everything he has given to our team are not mutually exclusive ideas. Some people were fine with what Marty did, others indifferent, some were disappointed like myself. It's fine to have a differing opinion but you take it to the next level. All you want to do is sh!t all over other fans who have a different perspective the your own. But that was months ago, and you are still carrying on about it. you could at least try and be a little more respectful, i think the cr1976 from some of those other njdevs "forums decency" threads would would have agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Yea but we were reaaally close here. Most of us thought he was going to retire in the offseason, I get that he still wanted to see if he had anything left but it was still disappointing when you consider the end result. If Marty played 2-3 more seasons, even as a back up somewhere I think he belongs on that list. How many greats go out playing 7 games for another team? Hull and Orr in hockey did. Ruth barely played with the Braves. Mike Modano missed half the season he played with the Red Wings. Has any goalie in the modern era (1970-) stayed with one team and had a Hall of Fame career? I guess Dryden did, but he had a very short career. Roy didn't. Hasek didn't. Belfour didn't. Joseph didn't. Luongo didn't. It's REALLY really hard to stay with one team as a goalie because there will usually come a time in a goalie's career where he thinks he is still a starter and his team doesn't think that. Even guys who weren't HOF level but who stayed in the same place for forever like Turco and Kolzig had their moment in their career where they felt this. If Lundqvist retires at say, 36, I bet he stays the whole time with the Rangers. If he retires at 40, I bet he doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) But Marty was being true to himself (still thought he had something left, even if many (including me) thought otherwise), and I respect that. If he needed those seven games to end his career with peace of mind, good for him. I just think it's unfair to act like that detracts from his accomplishments and what was a tremendous career. I think the balance of what he did before means he should get a pass from those who have a problem with the St. Louis games. Just something I feel strongly about. Right, I understand that. The sad part is his complete lack of awareness of his actual ability. The sad thing is hanging on so long when he had the past three years to realize he's one of the worst goalies in the league. He needed 7 games somewhere else to realize how bad he really was? that is sad. It would look a lot better if he played another season with STL. I'm sure he would re-do it all if he could. i hope he has peace of mind, but from a fan's perspective, its a shame. Still love the guy, but it looks sad. Hull and Orr in hockey did. Ruth barely played with the Braves. Mike Modano missed half the season he played with the Red Wings. Has any goalie in the modern era (1970-) stayed with one team and had a Hall of Fame career? I guess Dryden did, but he had a very short career. Roy didn't. Hasek didn't. Belfour didn't. Joseph didn't. Luongo didn't. It's REALLY really hard to stay with one team as a goalie because there will usually come a time in a goalie's career where he thinks he is still a starter and his team doesn't think that. Even guys who weren't HOF level but who stayed in the same place for forever like Turco and Kolzig had their moment in their career where they felt this. If Lundqvist retires at say, 36, I bet he stays the whole time with the Rangers. If he retires at 40, I bet he doesn't. It is certainly very hard staying with one team. Thats why its sad that just 7 games separated Marty from that cool feat. Especially when everyone knew for years that he was a really bad goaltender. PDB and Lou gave him plenty of games to see this. Edited September 3, 2015 by devlman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Hull and Orr in hockey did. Ruth barely played with the Braves. Mike Modano missed half the season he played with the Red Wings. Has any goalie in the modern era (1970-) stayed with one team and had a Hall of Fame career? I guess Dryden did, but he had a very short career. Roy didn't. Hasek didn't. Belfour didn't. Joseph didn't. Luongo didn't. It's REALLY really hard to stay with one team as a goalie because there will usually come a time in a goalie's career where he thinks he is still a starter and his team doesn't think that. Even guys who weren't HOF level but who stayed in the same place for forever like Turco and Kolzig had their moment in their career where they felt this. If Lundqvist retires at say, 36, I bet he stays the whole time with the Rangers. If he retires at 40, I bet he doesn't. Hull and Ruth played for multiple teams before ending with a short stint, Orr is a better example, but even he played 2 years on the hawks. If Marty played for the Jets for 5 seasons and then then finished 7 with St. Louis it wouldn't have been an issue, he would have already lost the "whole career with one team" thing. You keep saying its super rare, and I agree, that's what would have made his career even more special. Edit: Mike Modano is a great comparison. Dallas fans were crushed when he left. Are they somehow lesser and unappreciative fans? Edited September 3, 2015 by squishyx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Again you are under some weird impression that when I called his 7 games in St. Louis wasteful that I was somehow talking about his entire career. I was not, and I corrected you several times. Yet to this day you maintain otherwise. That's some weird cognitive dissonance you are showing off here. At no point did I or anyone ever say anything about ruining his entire career, that's another cr1976 fabrication that you have made to fit this weird "omg look at these fake fans!" narrative that you are desperately trying to sell. I love and appreciate everything that Marty has given to this organization. I proudly hang his jersey in my closet, I have an autographed paper plate that my aunt was able to get him to sign at a restaurant in super stalker like fashion, when I was young Marty almost ran me over with his car while I was waiting for autographs which at the time (and still do) I thought was the coolest thing every. While he is not my favorite Devil (that honor goes to Mr. Terreri) he's very close, and like many others here, I have grown up while watching every single Brodeur game. Believe it or not, being disappointed in his final decision and appreciating everything he has given to our team are not mutually exclusive ideas. Some people were fine with what Marty did, others indifferent, some were disappointed like myself. It's fine to have a differing opinion but you take it to the next level. All you want to do is sh!t all over other fans who have a different perspective the your own. But that was months ago, and you are still carrying on about it. you could at least try and be a little more respectful, i think the cr1976 from some of those other njdevs "forums decency" threads would would have agreed. I don't recall ever calling you a "fake fan". I'm hardly trying to sell some "fake fan" agenda. I readily admit that here is a certain kind of Devil fan that I have trouble relating to...specifically, the kind (not necessarily saying you) that thinks that the gravy train of success was never going to reach the end of the tracks. But as I have said on many occasions, I also get that the fan who was born in the mid-to-late 80s likely has nothing but memories of mostly good-to-excellent regular seasons and occasional extended playoff runs. They know nothing else when it comes to the Devils, and are adjusting. So even if I find that kind of fan hard to deal with sometimes, I can somewhat understand where he's coming from. As far as the "carrying on" thing goes, when I clicked on the link in the first post, yeah, I thought it sucked that some people are still carrying on about Marty playing those games with the Blues, seeing words like "traitor", "loser" and "foolish" being used to describe him. So I posted my opinion of the people who were saying those things on that site. Didn't say jack about you or anyone here, but I thought that the particular people on that site were being idiotic by calling him a traitor and a loser. But for some reason you turned it into more than that by responding to me when I didn't even mention you (and I did overreact, and that's on me). I shouldn't have indirectly called you an idiot and for that I apologize, but at the same time, I guess I'll always have an issue with anyone who's disappointed with how Marty ended his hockey career, especially when he gave us so much to enjoy and remember. Sure, some of how it ended was sad. But I almost feel like when a player has a career like Marty's, you put your feelings aside and just think "Well, if that he wants, he's earned the right." Even you don't necessarily agree with his choices. No one is saying it ruins everything - dont be so dramatic. For the most part, it seems some people (myself included) feel it was a shame that just 7 games was the difference between an entire sparkling career with just 1 team. As i said above, he couldve easily gotten that 7 games and then some with the Devils. It was his choice to move on and do what he wants, no one is arguing that. Its just a shame from a fan's perspective that a special one-team career for a HOF didnt happen just for 7 games. Unfortunately, I think Marty still being here in 2014-2015 would've been much worse than him going to another team...for one, fans were already starting to turn on him due to his play and his quotes the prior season (which sometimes made him look both entitled and oblivious). Second, I wouldn't have trusted anyone involved to handle his still being here correctly...DeBoer still would've given him too many games if Cory had two or three iffy starts in a row, there still would've been too many "We're so lucky to have two goalies of this stature...it's a good problem to have" quotes, Cory may never been able to feel like the #1 job was truly his, Devils players would have to act like Marty was still somehow any good...I just think it was time for everyone to move from each other, even if it meant Marty might ultimately suit up for someone else. Edited September 3, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 You guys keep harping on the short length but to me it doesn't really make a difference whether it was five games or fifty games. If anything it would have felt worse if Marty had some modicum of success and beat us in big games (a la Brett Favre with the Vikings...and those wounds healed fast after his career ended too). Joe Namath's more identified as a Jet as anyone else they've had, a HOF'er and an icon. Nobody cares he played four games as a Ram, he's still forever known as a Jet and for his iconic Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 In my mind it never even happened. I didn't watch the games and I hated even seeing him in that awful blue. That being said it never changed anything to me about him. Still my favorite player of all time. Still the best goalie that I will see in my lifetime in a Devils jersey. I can't wait for his retirement night, it should be a blast. I really just think it doesn't happen this year because of money but we will see. I would like to get tickets downstairs for this event so I hope they don't wait too long to announce it if it's this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) The chances of Marty having any real success were pretty remote, and every team in the NHL knew it...it took him as long as it did for him to find a team for a reason. I think everyone handled it the right way last season...the Devils were right to move on, Marty was right to give it one last shot as he clearly wasn't ready to stop playing, and the Blues were right in that they needed a body and thought Marty might have something left. Anyway, I plan on being there for his jersey retirement, and hope that his night will be every last thing it should be. Edited September 4, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Thinking about when it happens, be it this year or next, I'm hoping Doc comes back to MC. Chico in the house. Lou of course too. It should be a great night, and it'll be emotional for both Marty and the fans. I'm looking forward to being there to celebrate an absolutely amazing career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Edit: Mike Modano is a great comparison. Dallas fans were crushed when he left. Are they somehow lesser and unappreciative fans? Yeah, I always admired Modano for his loyalty/one-team player. Plus he's still the all-time leading US scorer iirc. He was a big reason why I felt Parise would be the next American to break those records as a Devil years back. I used the Modano comparison in the Elias thread as well. Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Hull and Orr in hockey did. Ruth barely played with the Braves. Mike Modano missed half the season he played with the Red Wings. Has any goalie in the modern era (1970-) stayed with one team and had a Hall of Fame career? I guess Dryden did, but he had a very short career. Roy didn't. Hasek didn't. Belfour didn't. Joseph didn't. Luongo didn't. It's REALLY really hard to stay with one team as a goalie because there will usually come a time in a goalie's career where he thinks he is still a starter and his team doesn't think that. Even guys who weren't HOF level but who stayed in the same place for forever like Turco and Kolzig had their moment in their career where they felt this. If Lundqvist retires at say, 36, I bet he stays the whole time with the Rangers. If he retires at 40, I bet he doesn't. And let's face it, part of the reason that Marty wound up staying for two more seasons was due to a lot of things lining up in a "perfect storm" kind of way: 1) The Devils not having that young up-and-comer to push Marty (due to Frazee not developing as hoped). 2) The lockout and not knowing if the 2012-13 season would ever happen (leading to the extra year in his contract). 3) Marty playing his best hockey of the 2011-12 season towards the end of that year and in the playoffs, which was freshest in Lou's and everyone's mind when Marty was re-signed, despite the fact that the recent overall track record had shown some inconsistency and the beginnings of decline (he was brutal the first few months of that year). 4) Some sentimentality and PR playing a role in this...the Devils could've possibly gone out and signed or traded for a younger (but still a veteran if so desired) goalie and let Marty walk, but Lou clearly wasn't going to do that considering their history together, and a lot of fans would've thrown a sh!tfit...quite a few of them did when Cory Schneider finally got a true starting goalie's minutes on merit, when it was obvious that the vastly superior Schneider should be getting much more playing time than he ultimately did when he first got here. Take out any one of the above four (especially if Frazee had torn up the AHL and looked like he was ready to burst into the NHL just as Marty's contract was expiring), and chances are we're talking about Marty playing a lot more than seven games with another team...more like 2+ seasons. And this is all hindsight of course, and I fully understand why he was brought back when 1-4 are factored in, but if he had been putting up similar numbers for another team in 2012-13 and 2013-14, we'd be saying, "Man, it was tough to let Marty go, but he's clearly not what he was, it was hard at first to see him put on another team's jersey but at least I saw the last of Marty's best in 2012." I think part of what bothers me about the "Marty playing for another team sucked, it was disappointing that it happened" sentiment is that the main reason this debate even happens in the first place is because we had to endure watching a clearly diminished Marty (with the exception of a strong run or two) for two seasons to keep the "played for one team his whole career" dream alive. The possibility of Marty spending his whole career with the Devils did come at a cost to the franchise at the end...once one strips out sentimentality and emotion (which I admit in this case is VERY hard to do...I can't really do it when it comes to Marty), both parties probably would've been better off having moved on from each other after the 2012 SC Final run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I agree for the most part, except I don't criticize him for going to another team. He still wanted to play. Maybe he should have realized he was done, but he still wanted to try. The Devils didn't give him that opportunity, not that any of us mind that. But, he had to choose between being "forced" into retirement, or playing with another team. He chose the latter, which is probably what I'd have done too. If I felt I could play, I wouldn't have let the Devils tell me I couldn't. I agree for the most part, except I don't criticize him for going to another team. He still wanted to play. Maybe he should have realized he was done, but he still wanted to try. The Devils didn't give him that opportunity, not that any of us mind that. But, he had to choose between being "forced" into retirement, or playing with another team. He chose the latter, which is probably what I'd have done too. If I felt I could play, I wouldn't have let the Devils tell me I couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I don't recall ever calling you a "fake fan". I'm hardly trying to sell some "fake fan" agenda. I readily admit that here is a certain kind of Devil fan that I have trouble relating to...specifically, the kind (not necessarily saying you) that thinks that the gravy train of success was never going to reach the end of the tracks. But as I have said on many occasions, I also get that the fan who was born in the mid-to-late 80s likely has nothing but memories of mostly good-to-excellent regular seasons and occasional extended playoff runs. They know nothing else when it comes to the Devils, and are adjusting. So even if I find that kind of fan hard to deal with sometimes, I can somewhat understand where he's coming from. As far as the "carrying on" thing goes, when I clicked on the link in the first post, yeah, I thought it sucked that some people are still carrying on about Marty playing those games with the Blues, seeing words like "traitor", "loser" and "foolish" being used to describe him. So I posted my opinion of the people who were saying those things on that site. Didn't say jack about you or anyone here, but I thought that the particular people on that site were being idiotic by calling him a traitor and a loser. But for some reason you turned it into more than that by responding to me when I didn't even mention you (and I did overreact, and that's on me). I shouldn't have indirectly called you an idiot and for that I apologize, but at the same time, I guess I'll always have an issue with anyone who's disappointed with how Marty ended his hockey career, especially when he gave us so much to enjoy and remember. Sure, some of how it ended was sad. But I almost feel like when a player has a career like Marty's, you put your feelings aside and just think "Well, if that he wants, he's earned the right." Even you don't necessarily agree with his choices. Ok, fair enough. I didn't even notice comments on the original post, I assumed you were just referencing our older discussions on njdevs. So my apologies for that. Something something when you assume. It would appear thought that we are not going to find middle ground on this "you can you be disappointed with something some does while still appreciate the other things that they have done" concept. So agree to disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 No animosity towards Marty going to St. Louis. It was his prerogative, nobody has any right to tell him how to wrap up his career. He wanted a to find out if he could still play...and he found out As for coming back, all that Marty knows and held dear here in NJ is gone. Why bother? agreed, there is nothing here for him anymore its not like his family even lives in the state.. he said it himself walking into prudential center now is not anything like it once was im pretty sure he stated its like walking into pittsburgh. Everyone he has known and worked with over the years is now gone.. so much has changed here over the past 3-4 years, its kind of sad actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Ok, fair enough. I didn't even notice comments on the original post, I assumed you were just referencing our older discussions on njdevs. So my apologies for that. Something something when you assume. It would appear thought that we are not going to find middle ground on this "you can you be disappointed with something some does while still appreciate the other things that they have done" concept. So agree to disagree? No, nothing like that re: past debates, just was disappointed with some of the flat-out dumb word choices on that site. A fan being disappointed with his career choices at the end is one thing, but calling him a traitor and a loser is something else entirely...then again, those could've been Ranger fans posting for all I know (but sadly there probably are Devils fans who feel that strongly about the end of Marty's career that they do think he somehow betrayed them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfb42183 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Marty is and always will be a devil! His number will be up there soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArmySports Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I don't think it's a big deal if they don't retire his number this season. The Yankees are yet to retire Jeter's number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas0nMacIsaac Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Against Toronto makes sense with half our former organization there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I don't think it's a big deal if they don't retire his number this season. The Yankees are yet to retire Jeter's number. i dont know why people are in a rush to do this.. as i previously said all the people marty worked with over the years are all now gone this is not the same "new jersey devils" organization that he played for or knows.. marty may not even want to come back and do a retiring ceremony who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 i dont know why people are in a rush to do this.. as i previously said all the people marty worked with over the years are all now gone this is not the same "new jersey devils" organization that he played for or knows.. marty may not even want to come back and do a retiring ceremony who knows I have no doubt he wants to come back and have his jersey retired. Things didn't end that badly here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Growing up Marty was always my favorite player, he was as true a Devil you're going to find in our history and I don't feel any ill will over him going to St. Louis. He felt he could still play, that's his right, and when he realized he couldn't, he was offered a good front office job, and you can't fault him for accepting. 7 games in St. Louis taints nothing, no one remembers Mats Sundin as a Canuck, or Mike Modano as a Red Wing, Brodeur is forever a Devil, it doesn't matter where he retired or where he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 i dont know why people are in a rush to do this.. as i previously said all the people marty worked with over the years are all now gone this is not the same "new jersey devils" organization that he played for or knows.. marty may not even want to come back and do a retiring ceremony who knows Yeah, he's got a pretty big ego, he'll be there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Yeah, he's got a pretty big ego, he'll be there... He's arguably the greatest of all time to play his position, he should have an ego. And he will be back for a ceremony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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