GDT - Jerseys Team vs New York 1994's

[DevsMan84]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 11:16 PM, thecoffeecake said:

The issue of cultural identity isn't a more serious issue because I say so. Cultural identity has drawn international borders, been responsible for the rise of countless world leaders and led to countless wars. It's something that's far from "pretty silly", I'd say. Your constant assertion that this is a matter of subjectivity and perception just seems like a willing ignorance in an attempt to settle a year old grudge. Jerseys are your thing, and that's great, but how many times can you say that these things belong in the same conversation without it starting to sound ridiculous to you?

It is because you said so.  To even put a parallel between supporting a team and a cultural identity is just beyond silly.  So you would not date a girl because of her affiliation to a sports team?  You would not do business with someone who supports another team?  By your article I can assume the answer is yes.

It is silly no matter how much you try to say it's not.

[DevsMan84]

15 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

To me it's even more ridiculous to be holding a grudge over a year-old post to the point of waiting to drop it into an unrelated point/thread to start an argument than it is to actually care about knockoff jerseys or Ranger fans in Jersey.  If you don't respect someone 84 then put them on ignore instead of cluttering up the board with personal attacks (again).  If you don't agree with his point that's fine.  But his post wasn't about jerseys, at least stick to the topic instead of dredging up a game thread/recap with old arguments and attacks.

And so I'm not accused of being one-sided I do think it was a mistake to leave out in the piece growing up in Ranger fan families as being a huge, unavoidable factor in there still being many Ranger fans in Jersey and as annoying as it can be I think it's certainly a valid excuse.  Yes some people 'rebel' and become Devil fans but many like the camraderie of shared experience and I can't fault people for defaulting to that.  On the other hand I don't particularly like Devil fans taking Ranger fan friends to the Rock (family's another story), but that's of course bias cause a lot more Ranger fans come to the Rock already as it is.

C'mon Hasan you are being biased.  He writes for the same rag you do so of course no matter what you will take his side just from that angle.

If you bothered to even read that one year old post (more like 8 months ago), you will see that he attacked me out of nowhere over the jerseys.  Read the thread again if you don't believe me.  Where were you swooping in to tell him he is being ridiculous?  And don't start to lecture me on fights when you have started plenty in the past.  I've been here for almost 6 years now and I have seen plenty from everyone.

The topic was what a hypocrite he was being.  He accuses me of getting bent out of shape over what others wear, but there he goes getting bent out of shape over what stickers people put on cars and tries to turn it into this grandiose state pride statement.  Give me a break.

[DevsMan84]

11 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

You nailed it there. That poster jumped on me cause i'm not a fan "from NJ" so i was not allowed or worthy to have an opinion or voice my opinion about anything related to NJ that i've heard about or read online.

There's clearly an issue when someone is on the defence all the time like that 

I have to admit, you sometimes get more crap than what you deserve when it comes to the Rangers hatred.  Apparently you have to move from Canada to here in NJ to have any type of "perspective."

[Chuck the Duck]

13 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

It is because you said so.  To even put a parallel between supporting a team and a cultural identity is just beyond silly.  So you would not date a girl because of her affiliation to a sports team?  You would not do business with someone who supports another team?  By your article I can assume the answer is yes.

It is silly no matter how much you try to say it's not.

I get what you are saying, but I've made choices of bars to go to and support based upon their allegiance to certain sports teams.  I won't set foot in Miami Mike's because that lunatic is a jabroni Rag's fan of epic proportions (not to mention the bar itself sucks).  I've gone to Unique Photo to buy a camera and accessories because a Devils fan and site member owns/runs it.  It's not a big deal, but it's a choice I have made that suits me personally.       

Edited February 29, 2016 by Chuck the Duck

[DevsMan84]

3 minutes ago, Chuck the Duck said:

I get what you are saying, but I've made choices of bars to go to and support based upon their allegiance to certain sports teams.  I won't set foot in Miami Mike's because that lunatic is a jabroni Rag's fan of epic proportions (not to mention the bar itself sucks).  I've gone to Unique Photo to buy a camera and accessories because a Devils fan and site member owns/runs it.  It's not a big deal, but it's a choice I have made that suits me personally.       

I don't bother with Miami Mike's because his food is crap, service sucks, its overpriced, and the place looks like a sh!thole.  I could care less who he roots for.

I have been to stores many times where the owner is a clear Rags fan.  It's not a huge deal to me, but I am not going to start sh!t with someone who does.

[Satans Hockey]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

It is because you said so.  To even put a parallel between supporting a team and a cultural identity is just beyond silly.  So you would not date a girl because of her affiliation to a sports team?  You would not do business with someone who supports another team?  By your article I can assume the answer is yes.

It is silly no matter how much you try to say it's not.

I wouldn't get involved seriously with a girl who was a fan of another team. Too many issues, what game to watch that night, what team to get season tickets too but for myself I think that's more practical for my quality of life. 

Business as long as it's beneficial to me I would do with. 

Friends wise I have no use for Rangers fans anymore and I don't even bring up hockey when meeting new people cause I'd rather slam my head against the wall. 

[NJDevs4978]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

C'mon Hasan you are being biased.  He writes for the same rag you do so of course no matter what you will take his side just from that angle.

Eh no, I don't run the site and I've never met him or talked with him off the board. Nor did I comment in the article when other Ranger fans jumped on him in the comments section and I admitted  here I don't agree with a chunk of the piece either. And it's fair if you want to jump on him for that.

I just don't care who jumped who on a jersey thread eight months ago or how that's relevant. By that standard you could get on anyone for any petty difference of opinion (like how much beer costs at games or what crappy fourth liner plays) and accuse them of being a hypocrite. If he jumped you out of nowhere fine, you don't have to respect him - ignore him.

You just seem to have angry old man syndrome where everything turns into a gratuitous  ****ing contest and I don't even think you are that old. A lot of these arguments just seem to be avoidable and unneccesary.

Edited February 29, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Eh no, I don't run the site and I've never met him or talked with him off the board. Nor did I comment in the article when other Ranger fans jumped on him in the comments section and I admitted  here I don't agree with a chunk of the piece either. And it's fair if you want to jump on him for that.

I just don't care who jumped who on a jersey thread eight months ago or how that's relevant. By that standard you could get on anyone for any petty difference of opinion (like how much beer costs at games or what crappy fourth liner plays) and accuse them of being a hypocrite. If he jumped you out of nowhere fine, you don't have to respect him - ignore him.

You just seem to have angry old man syndrome where everything turns into a gratuitous  ****ing contest and I don't even think you are that old. A lot of these arguments just seem to be avoidable and unneccesary.

LOL.  This is coming from the guy who has perfected the "I am not going to get involved, but I will get involved by commenting" schtick on here.  You have done it to me several times before as well as others you have a particular disdain for.

It's basically your passive-aggressive jab at people who trying to give the impression that you are trying to be a peacemaker.  How about next time you see this nonsense you just don't comment or take your own sage advice and block me since you think I have the angry old man syndrome?

Pretty please?

[devilsfan26]

8 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

It is because you said so.  To even put a parallel between supporting a team and a cultural identity is just beyond silly.  So you would not date a girl because of her affiliation to a sports team?  You would not do business with someone who supports another team?  By your article I can assume the answer is yes.

It is silly no matter how much you try to say it's not.

I think that is stretching it a bit.  I agree with his premise of the Devils being a part of NJ developing its own culture distinguished from New York's, but that doesn't mean I don't associate with Rangers fans.  I've had roommates who were Rangers fans, I share an office with a Rangers fan now, and my boss actually used to be their assistant GM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 0:13 AM, devilsfan26 said:

Welp as former NJDevs poster, DaneykoIsGod, put it, "Your dad also fvcked your mom, are those the footsteps you want to follow?"

DIG was a great poster who contributed many intelligent AND humorous posts (and whose contributions are sorely missed).  But this line, though funny as hell, does miss the boat, as does Coffee's assertion that, in his words, it's the responsibility of people from here to be flag bearers for our state and culture.

I don't see that at all.  Rooting for a team is supposed to be a fun and simple diversion...I readily admit it, for me and many others it's more than that, to the extent that I don't always have nearly as much simplistic and primal fun watching my teams as I should...sometimes I take this sh!t way too seriously and get way too angry when my team is coming up small in a big spot or not living up to expectations.  But hardcore sports fans are a different breed.  There's a reason why there's so much TV and radio dedicated to talking about this stuff, 24/7.  And websites of course. 

But back to the simplicity point...I think family ties go far far deeper than state pride.  We all know that people and families often bond over watching sporting events (sometimes deeply) and have since professional sports leagues started to take shape.  Suppose some father from New Jersey who became a Rangers fan back in the 40s started taking his kid to Rangers games, who then grew up and started taking HIS kid (with that kid's now-grandfather in tow) to games, who also grew up and continued taking HIS kid(s) to games, with an obvious tradition being built that has come to mean a lot to that family...now Coffee is suggesting that the most recent generation of that clan has to say "Well I'm not rooting for the Rangers anymore because I need to fight for all things New Jersey?!"  I hate the Rangers as much as I hate any sports franchise and have detailed why many times (probably too many), but I'm not about to tell a group of Rangers fans from NJ that they need to give up what may be long-standing generational allegiances because someone's asserted that they're not allowed to just be fans...they now have to be some kind of NJ cultural crusaders on top of that.  Being a sports fan is supposed to be a way to get away from additional responsibilities, not be an avenue to take on even more of them. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[thecoffeecake]

23 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

It is because you said so.  To even put a parallel between supporting a team and a cultural identity is just beyond silly.  So you would not date a girl because of her affiliation to a sports team?  You would not do business with someone who supports another team?  By your article I can assume the answer is yes.

It is silly no matter how much you try to say it's not.

You've really been pushing it, but that one is way too over the top to take seriously. Community is what sports are about, Without the community element in sports, sports are just a bunch of men running around playing a game in different colored jerseys. Without community in sports, fandom is just blind allegiance to a brand. Community and cultural identity is everything with professional sports.

 

I don't recall ever saying I don't associate with people who support rival sports teams. One of my best friends is a Rangers fan originally from Brooklyn, and his grandfather is a lifelong die-hard Ranger fan who's been going to the Garden since the 30's or 40's. He's one of the coolest people I know and talk to him about hockey a ton any time I see him. Derek from New York Puck is a great guy. I spend most of my time these days in Philadelphia for God's sake, and all of my friends here are Flyers fans. My girlfriend is a San Francisco Giants fan from the Bay Area. I don't think everyone needs to support the same things I do. I think these same principles apply to every sports market.

Do I make decisions about where I do my business based on sports allegiances of the owners/personnel? Yea, sometimes. There was a bar/grill type restaurant in Toms River that had a bunch of banners hanging from the ceiling of local sports teams, and had a Rangers banner and not a Devils one. I said something to a manager and never went in again. They closed shortly after. There was a sports store at the Ocean County Mall that a few years ago had all Rangers and Flyers stuff in their display window, and my friends and I made a point of not going in there again. I don't know if it's still there or not. If you want my business in New Jersey, you won't be insulting towards my culture. You can say that's silly, or whatever you want to say, but I'm not some lunatic who's alone here. There are plenty of Devils fans who feel this way.

 

On 2/29/2016 at 1:11 AM, SterioDesign said:

You nailed it there. That poster jumped on me cause i'm not a fan "from NJ" so i was not allowed or worthy to have an opinion or voice my opinion about anything related to NJ that i've heard about or read online.

There's clearly an issue when someone is on the defence all the time like that 

You called our crowd sh!tty, dude.

[SterioDesign]

2 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

You called our crowd sh!tty, dude.

I stated that the you suck chant was lame and it's a fact. 

and you were freaking out about a lot more than that. You had like 3-4 things i said lined up from weeks before

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by SterioDesign

[MadDog2020]

Exhibit fvcking A of what cake is talking about: this dumb broad writes an article on how you can tell you're from North Jersey, only to claim allegiance to the Rags. THIS is the type of thing that makes me want to take Rag fans from NJ, put them in a bus, and push that bus into the Hudson River: http://theodysseyonline.com/temple/10-signs-north-jersey/319800

[point]

This has turned into an entertaining topic, if not necessarily enlightening one. I watched Rangers games for over twenty years with my wife because she was a rangers fan ( she grew up in Bergen County and actually started as a Habs fan-Rocket Richard esp) , and The Devils were only available on cable. After actually watching the Devils play in the 94 playoffs, I could not possibly root for another team. My jersey roots go back to 1765. We got cable in 1997. I got a weekend tickets package in 1999. Enough said. The Devils organization really appealed to me. Scott Stevens was the boss. Unfortunately, my wife and I have a strained relationship now. 

[point]

The Rangers were broadcasting games on FREE TV for over forty years. That is a huge start in cultivating fans. If you live in Toms River, you must surely see a ton of Flyers bumper stickers as well. I do in Brick.  Yeah, they are misguided, pray for them.

[Derek21]

16 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

Exhibit fvcking A of what cake is talking about: this dumb broad writes an article on how you can tell you're from North Jersey, only to claim allegiance to the Rags. THIS is the type of thing that makes me want to take Rag fans from NJ, put them in a bus, and push that bus into the Hudson River: http://theodysseyonline.com/temple/10-signs-north-jersey/319800

I enjoyed most of the list. Didn't quite get why she said that in number 3. So, do you want to strangle me? 

[MadDog2020]

 

Exhibit fvcking A of what cake is talking about: this dumb broad writes an article on how you can tell you're from North Jersey, only to claim allegiance to the Rags. THIS is the type of thing that makes me want to take Rag fans from NJ, put them in a bus, and push that bus into the Hudson River: http://theodysseyonline.com/temple/10-signs-north-jersey/319800

I enjoyed most of the list. Didn't quite get why she said that in number 3. So, do you want to strangle me? 

Are you a Ranger fan from NJ? No, you aren't, you're from NY. I'm specifically talking about Ranger fans that forsake their home state. They can all fvck off.

[Derek21]

3 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Are you a Ranger fan from NJ? No, you aren't, you're from NY. I'm specifically talking about Ranger fans that forsake their home state. They can all fvck off.

But isn't that what this whole silly debate is? If someone is born and raised a Ranger fan, it's doubtful they're gonna switch allegiances. Let's take you for example. You are a Dolphins fan who lives in Jersey. I don't know how you became one. But you did. Whether due to Marino or father being one, they are your team. I'll bet some tried to critique you or ask why are you not a Jets or Giants fan. And you probably hated it. We are who we are. Nothing should ever change that. 

[MadDog2020]

Are you a Ranger fan from NJ? No, you aren't, you're from NY. I'm specifically talking about Ranger fans that forsake their home state. They can all fvck off.

But isn't that what this whole silly debate is? If someone is born and raised a Ranger fan, it's doubtful they're gonna switch allegiances. Let's take you for example. You are a Dolphins fan who lives in Jersey. I don't know how you became one. But you did. Whether due to Marino or father being one, they are your team. I'll bet some tried to critique you or ask why are you not a Jets or Giants fan. And you probably hated it. We are who we are. Nothing should ever change that. 

Didn't hate it all, I gladly explain to people who ask that NJ doesn't have a pro football team. Two NY teams that play here in NJ and call themselves NY are not NJ franchises, thus fvck them. I have no loyalty to them. I'm from NJ. Not NYC. We have one major pro team, and I bleed that team. End of story. And yes, my Dolphins fandom was born out of Marino being my favorite NFL player from the age of 7, combined with the fact that I spent a ton of time in South Florida as a kid, as my grandparents lived there, in addition to several other relatives... They were my team from an early age... Just as the Devils were.

[devilsfan26]

Even as a Jets fan I can't argue with that logic, and if the Giants for some reason ever changed their name to the New Jersey Giants or if another team moved here, well then I would switch teams right away.  Either way, my favorite football team is Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Interesting (and very different) viewpoints on this topic. 

Like many of you, I was born and raised in New Jersey, like my parents (my father in Union City, my mother in Dumont), and their parents.  So far as I know, the Olafssons (my dad's side...as was common back then, my last name was shortened and anglicized to Olson not long after the Olafssons arrived) have been here since the mid-1800s. 

There's other places I've been to and enjoyed (but never lived in...NJ has been it for 45 years for me), where people are generally nicer and friendlier on the whole than they are in this area, where the pace is refreshingly slower, where traffic is more of an occasional inconvenience as opposed to a constant presence, where taxes and insurance rates don't seem like outright robbery...but New Jersey is the only place that somehow feels "right", but more importantly, feels like home and always will.  It's almost like that semi-crazy girlfriend that makes you sometimes wonder why you're with her, but the second you think about leaving her for good, you can't picture your life without her.   I can't imagine not living here (and enjoying the many great and overlooked aspects that New Jersey does have to offer) until I retire.  My old bones ain't doing winter when my non-working days arrive.

Anyway, for those who feel that a team that wears NJ as part of its crest should mean that NJ-based sports fans should almost automatically support it, do you limit that expectation just to sports franchises?  Bon Jovi and Bruce Springsteen are obviously heavily associated with New Jersey (Bon Jovi even named one of his albums for the state, which is about as close to wearing a NJ crest across his chest as it can get for a musician), and I'm not a fan of either performer's music one bit.  I guess the question here is how far does the whole "I unconditionally love and support all things NJ" idea go?  Enough to dump a team that you and your family may have enjoyed watching for years?  Do state ties run deeper than family bonding experiences?  If some NJ-based family has truly enjoyed watching a certain local (but non-NJ-based) team for generations, are they wrong to want to continue those traditions? 

I think it takes a lot for a fan or a family of fans (especially a multi-generational one like I described previously) to let go of their team for a new one, just because the newcomers now happens play in their home state.  For a decision that huge, it can often take something else massive to induce the push, like an all-time undisputed great playing for you...we know the Rockies team that came here absolutely blew serious chunks when they arrived (and were coming into a near-saturated NHL market) and had no one player to get anyone excited, but if the Devils had been the team to lose just enough to get their hands on Mario Lemieux after the '83-'84 season, to get that once-in-a-lifetime unbelievable talent that you're so proud to say plays for YOUR team, I think you would've seen more "local" fans jump ship.  Obviously in the non-Mario timeline we all lived, from a success standpoint, it all turned out OK on the ice...but Mario would've been a nice first step in giving the Devils an early identity, and one NJ-based hockey fans (and even casual sports fans) could've embraced instantly...he would've been that extra impetus that a crappy hockey team moving to New Jersey couldn't quite provide on its own.     

 

[thecoffeecake]

On 3/5/2016 at 9:32 AM, MadDog2020 said:

 

Exhibit fvcking A of what cake is talking about: this dumb broad writes an article on how you can tell you're from North Jersey, only to claim allegiance to the Rags. THIS is the type of thing that makes me want to take Rag fans from NJ, put them in a bus, and push that bus into the Hudson River: http://theodysseyonline.com/temple/10-signs-north-jersey/319800

Yea, this is a good example of some idiot trying to proclaim their Jersey pride while supporting the Rangers, but this girl is obviously not very bright. Her assertion that Dunkin Donuts has anything to do with New Jersey or being from New Jersey is silly, and to say our accents are the result of a proximity to New York is a highly simplified theory about why we talk the way we do. These are the kind of people you expect to be from here and hop over the river for hockey. You think this girl has ever thought critically about her cultural identity? Nope.

 

On 3/6/2016 at 10:04 PM, point said:

The Rangers were broadcasting games on FREE TV for over forty years. That is a huge start in cultivating fans. If you live in Toms River, you must surely see a ton of Flyers bumper stickers as well. I do in Brick.  Yeah, they are misguided, pray for them.

I grew up with very few Flyers fans and rarely see any indication of them in Ocean County aside from Tuckerton/LBI area where there are some, but most are Philly tourists. I think in my sizable high school class there were 2 that I was aware of; one was from Atlantic County and the other was raised in a Philadelphia family. I've always estimated the split in Toms River as 65/30/5 Devils-Rangers-Flyers. I'm very surprised you see a major Flyers presence in Brick. I feel like they have the least support of any Philly team in the area.

Edited March 7, 2016 by thecoffeecake