Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The price to acquire a defenseman in this league is high... It cost the Oilers Hall to acquire Larsson. Segachev, 9th overall pick from his draft year and no NHL experience cost Drouin. Some of the rumors I've seen floating about where names like Hamonic and Dumba are involved... the forward coming back is generally always a better player by a good amount. So, would it have been nice to only give a 3rd to acquire Mueller, yes. But I'm not particularly concerned over this gamble. Shero can't fleece every GM he calls. Does his best and I'm sure he'll fleece a few more before his tenure is up. So long he's not being fleeced himself - and I'd call this minor deal far from that - I think we'll come out on the right side of the equation more times than not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I know nothing about Mueller, other than he is a former first round pick. I hope he pans out, but I don't have the same great feeling about it as I did after we traded for Palmeri a few years ago. It will be interesting to see if we make any trades with Vegas for 1 of the defensemen left exposed. I think Minny, NYI and ANA gave up their firsts so Vegas doesn't take the good players they left exposed. Therefore, I'm looking at Nate Schmidt from the Caps. Left D, good skater and puck mover. Not a huge offensive D, but a top 4 guy. Might be a nice pickup, but I could see the price from him being high and I don't know if he would be worth our second+ in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffleFries Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 One of the reports I saw had the Vegas GM saying that while they had a lot of things lined up they don't have anything 100% concrete. Would it be worth it to try to outbid Minny for Dumba? What do you guys think it would take to get him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I thought many on this board wanted Cam Fowler. What happened to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffleFries Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 For a while at the beginning of the season Cam Fowler looked like he was going to be the odd man out in ANH but he had a damn good season and they protected him over Vatanen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, CarpathianForest said: I thought many on this board wanted Cam Fowler. What happened to that? If Mueller cost us a mid-2nd and 4th.. I shudder at the thought of what Fowler would've required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Acquiring Fowler or Vatanen would be huge - but yeah - it would take something we can't afford to give most likely (such as Zacha or Mcleod). Highest I'd be willing to go is Henrique (if we're talking bodies). Edited June 19, 2017 by Sharifijanov2099 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 A couple days removed - i still have NO fvcking clue what the point of this was - especially before expansion. was vegas taking this guy? is this guy better than merrill - certainly not right now. and now they have to protect him. yes - clearly it's a seller's market. but I have to think the 2 + 4 had more value if coupled with something else that gets you an NHL'er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 hours ago, sundstrom said: A couple days removed - i still have NO fvcking clue what the point of this was - especially before expansion. was vegas taking this guy? is this guy better than merrill - certainly not right now. and now they have to protect him. yes - clearly it's a seller's market. but I have to think the 2 + 4 had more value if coupled with something else that gets you an NHL'er. I guess it's possible that there might have been another team inquiring about him. Do GMs bluff when it comes to that, or is there an unwritten rule that you don't lie about interest from other teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsu1852 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 8 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said: If Mueller cost us a mid-2nd and 4th.. I shudder at the thought of what Fowler would've required. He also wants 7 million a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 5 hours ago, sundstrom said: A couple days removed - i still have NO fvcking clue what the point of this was - especially before expansion. was vegas taking this guy? is this guy better than merrill - certainly not right now. and now they have to protect him. yes - clearly it's a seller's market. but I have to think the 2 + 4 had more value if coupled with something else that gets you an NHL'er. Vegas certainly might've taken Mueller, although they have a lot better options. They might've flipped Mueller, which makes more sense - they need non-waiver eligible players for the AHL and that could've been a way to get some . The Devils, by the way, cannot flip Mueller. I don't really care about Merrill. I don't like Mueller, but the Devils have to be trying out new options to see if one's good. If they take Nico on Friday it'll make a little more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onddeck Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, Triumph said: Vegas certainly might've taken Mueller, although they have a lot better options. They might've flipped Mueller, which makes more sense - they need non-waiver eligible players for the AHL and that could've been a way to get some . The Devils, by the way, cannot flip Mueller. I don't really care about Merrill. I don't like Mueller, but the Devils have to be trying out new options to see if one's good. If they take Nico on Friday it'll make a little more sense. Why would taking Nico result in the trade making more sense? i hope you're not implying that an NHL GM wasted a 2nd and 4th so someone on this team could have a new buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Onddeck said: Why would taking Nico result in the trade making more sense? i hope you're not implying that an NHL GM wasted a 2nd and 4th so someone on this team could have a new buddy It's a ridiculous concept, agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 8 hours ago, sundstrom said: A couple days removed - i still have NO fvcking clue what the point of this was - especially before expansion. was vegas taking this guy? is this guy better than merrill - certainly not right now. and now they have to protect him. yes - clearly it's a seller's market. but I have to think the 2 + 4 had more value if coupled with something else that gets you an NHL'er. Who knows - maybe Vegas had a chat with Shero and told him they were heavily considering Merrill and asked if NJ wanted to offer something outlandish to "protect" him like a low 1st or high 2nd and NJ said "nah" or "go to heck". Then, quickly they decided to flip some lowers picks for a Merrill-like player who suddenly became available, ensuring they'd at least keep 1 of the 2. And perhaps it would have cost more to protect Merrill. All speculation, but who knows what prices Vegas is demanding. It's their market so they can ask for anything they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Onddeck said: Why would taking Nico result in the trade making more sense? i hope you're not implying that an NHL GM wasted a 2nd and 4th so someone on this team could have a new buddy The Devils need young defensemen who are ostensibly ready to jump into the NHL too. Mueller's being German Swiss would be a bonus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Onddeck said: Why would taking Nico result in the trade making more sense? i hope you're not implying that an NHL GM wasted a 2nd and 4th so someone on this team could have a new buddy I'm in neither camp in this argument, but we are talking about the organization which signed Darcy Zajac, Jordan Parise, Stephen Gionta, and Jocelyn Lemieux... I dunno if it's totally bonkers to think signing a buddy at least played some part of a decision making process, even if not the main part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Sharifijanov2099 said: I'm in neither camp in this argument, but we are talking about the organization which signed Darcy Zajac, Jordan Parise, Stephen Gionta, and Jocelyn Lemieux... I dunno if it's totally bonkers to think signing a buddy at least played some part of a decision making process, even if not the main part. I sincerely hope that the Swiss factor had absolutely nothing to do with this. I've said what I need to say so far as it will not make Nico a better player at the NHL level than he otherwise would be. But beyond that we gave up a second rounder and used a protection slot on this guy, who I believe is waiver eligible which means he has to be on the roster, and will likely be playing in a lot of games. If the thinking is that he may not be all that good at actually playing hockey, especially at a position where it really hurts your team if you're not that good, but that he'll make Nico feel all warm and fuzzy, then Shero is doing something seriously wrong. It makes me doubt the direction of the team, and the wisdom of selecting Hischier at all, if that's what the thinking is. At least with Hall, Shero just picked Gadzic off the scrap heap and kept him in Albany most of the year. I wish he could have spent a few minutes on hockeydb, so he could find some early twenties Swiss player that no one else cares about that you could invite to training camp and send to the AHL after the moment Nico realizes that New Jersey isn't North Korea and players that aren't Swiss are not space aliens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, Daniel said: I sincerely hope that the Swiss factor had absolutely nothing to do with this. I've said what I need to say so far as it will not make Nico a better player at the NHL level than he otherwise would be. But beyond that we gave up a second rounder and used a protection slot on this guy, who I believe is waiver eligible which means he has to be on the roster, and will likely be playing in a lot of games. If the thinking is that he may not be all that good at actually playing hockey, especially at a position where it really hurts your team if you're not that good, but that he'll make Nico feel all warm and fuzzy, then Shero is doing something seriously wrong. It makes me doubt the direction of the team, and the wisdom of selecting Hischier at all, if that's what the thinking is. At least with Hall, Shero just picked Gadzic off the scrap heap and kept him in Albany most of the year. I wish he could have spent a few minutes on hockeydb, so he could find some early twenties Swiss player that no one else cares about that you could invite to training camp and send to the AHL after the moment Nico realizes that New Jersey isn't North Korea and players that aren't Swiss are not space aliens. Here's Nail Yakupov talking about his experience in the NHL - weirdly he spoke this in English, I made sure to check if this was perhaps translated, since I know that English fluency is paramount. He also spent a year and a half playing in the OHL before playing in the NHL, so he is even more adjusted. Quote “I tried. Honestly, it was really tough this week because it’s not that easy. Doesn’t matter what team you’re on. I know Blues are a really good team, really good guys that are really friendly. It’s a really good family here. When you’ve been away for a long time, live in different country, different city and different friends, you pretty much have nothing outside. It’s really good here, but as soon as you go outside after practice, you’re just alone. You’re lonely and those kind of things get into your brain and in your mind and you have to fight that. I’m fighting, and now it’s going to be much easier. So yeah, it's strange that this guy sounds like he might be alienated since he can speak the language of the country he's in. Given how Zacha talked last season about dwelling on his goal drought and talking about his game to his agent - he too speaks English, so I'm sure he's got a ton of friends on the team and they hang out all the time - it would not shock me at all if the Devils thought it was a good idea to yes, acquire a player who they think might be okay, but also to help their new guy adjust a bit to the NHL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Triumph said: Here's Nail Yakupov talking about his experience in the NHL - weirdly he spoke this in English, I made sure to check if this was perhaps translated, since I know that English fluency is paramount. He also spent a year and a half playing in the OHL before playing in the NHL, so he is even more adjusted. So yeah, it's strange that this guy sounds like he might be alienated since he can speak the language of the country he's in. Given how Zacha talked last season about dwelling on his goal drought and talking about his game to his agent - he too speaks English, so I'm sure he's got a ton of friends on the team and they hang out all the time - it would not shock me at all if the Devils thought it was a good idea to yes, acquire a player who they think might be okay, but also to help their new guy adjust a bit to the NHL. Yakupov? Seriously? He was just not destined to be a good NHL player for reasons that mostly everyone missed when he was drafted, but which have to do with how he actually plays hockey, not what his feels were. Is there a team in the league that doesn't have Russian players (besides the Devils funnily enough)? St. Louis has at least one that we all know about, and he doesn't seem like he's a total nose. And I imagine Yakupov wasn't all that sad that there weren't any Russians in Sarnia when he was lighting it up there. If they think Mueller might be some diamond in the rough that will help the team on the ice, fine. That should be the only consideration, and should actually be a strike against Nico if you think he can't deal with adversity without a Swiss dude to talk to. He will not make Nico a better hockey player. In the same way that I don't think Nolan Patrick will perform better because there's another Winnipeg boy on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Daniel said: Yakupov? Seriously? He was just not destined to be a good NHL player for reasons that mostly everyone missed when he was drafted, but which have to do with how he actually plays hockey, not what his feels were. Is there a team in the league that doesn't have Russian players (besides the Devils funnily enough)? St. Louis has at least one that we all know about, and he doesn't seem like he's a total nose. And I imagine Yakupov wasn't all that sad that there weren't any Russians in Sarnia when he was lighting it up there. If they think Mueller might be some diamond in the rough that will help the team on the ice, fine. That should be the only consideration, and should actually be a strike against Nico if you think he can't deal with adversity without a Swiss dude to talk to. He will not make Nico a better hockey player. In the same way that I don't think Nolan Patrick will perform better because there's another Winnipeg boy on the team. This isn't an argument you're going to be able to work through with strawman logic, I agree, so I shouldn't've put so much of it in my previous post. Most of the league are effectively Winnipeg boys - it's not about sharing Tim Horton's experiences or how you miss bags of milk. It's about the fact that hockey is a full-time job with lots of downtime, and 18 year old men, even those drafted 1st overall, are people too. That's why you hear about rookies living at veteran players' houses and why teams choose certain roommates for certain players. Does it necessarily make the person a better player? No, not necessarily. It may not mean anything at all. But you might want to consider your experiences at age 18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Are we assuming that all Swiss people know each other or is there a link between these two guys? I mean, I'm from New York, if you picked another random New Yorker to be on my team, that wouldn't mean anything to me, he'd just be another guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 7 hours ago, Sharifijanov2099 said: I'm in neither camp in this argument, but we are talking about the organization which signed Darcy Zajac, Jordan Parise, Stephen Gionta, and Jocelyn Lemieux... I dunno if it's totally bonkers to think signing a buddy at least played some part of a decision making process, even if not the main part. If you're going to bring this up, why not shoehorn in Peter Sundstrom, Mike Pandolfo, and Anthony Brodeur while you're at it? What does the bolded have to do with anything? McMullen has passed away and no longer owned the team when he died, VBK is now coaching the Somerville High School football team, and Lou is the Leafs' GM. The individuals who were around when these players were brought in have been gone for a while now. None of what happened then has any bearing on moves being made in 2017, as totally different parties are involved in the decision-making. And I'm not even sure what the Devils having signed or traded for relatives of current Devils in the past has to do with this situation...hell, in Jocelyn Lemieux's case, Claude wasn't even on the Devils on the time when Lou dealt for him during the 1995-96 season (that's why I didn't bring up Neal Broten when I mentioned the other sibs). Maybe Shero did consider Mueller's heritage when he acquired him, maybe not, but whatever his thought process was, it had nothing to do with some imagined legacy (apparently handed down through ownerships and GMs) with regards to how you think the Devils do business. Not sure why you'd try to create a link where it doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: If you're going to bring this up, why not shoehorn in Peter Sundstrom, Mike Pandolfo, and Anthony Brodeur while you're at it? What does the bolded have to do with anything? McMullen has passed away and no longer owned the team when he died, VBK is now coaching the Somerville High School football team, and Lou is the Leafs' GM. The individuals who were around when these players were brought in have been gone for a while now. None of what happened then has any bearing on moves being made in 2017, as totally different parties are involved in the decision-making. And I'm not even sure what the Devils having signed or traded for relatives of current Devils in the past has to do with this situation...hell, in Jocelyn Lemieux's case, Claude wasn't even on the Devils on the time when Lou dealt for him during the 1995-96 season (that's why I didn't bring up Neal Broten when I mentioned the other sibs). Maybe Shero did consider Mueller's heritage when he acquired him, maybe not, but whatever his thought process was, it had nothing to do with some imagined legacy (apparently handed down through ownerships and GMs) with regards to how you think the Devils do business. Not sure why you'd try to create a link where it doesn't exist. 1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: If you're going to bring this up, why not shoehorn in Peter Sundstrom, Mike Pandolfo, and Anthony Brodeur while you're at it? What does the bolded have to do with anything? McMullen has passed away and no longer owned the team when he died, VBK is now coaching the Somerville High School football team, and Lou is the Leafs' GM. The individuals who were around when these players were brought in have been gone for a while now. None of what happened then has any bearing on moves being made in 2017, as totally different parties are involved in the decision-making. And I'm not even sure what the Devils having signed or traded for relatives of current Devils in the past has to do with this situation...hell, in Jocelyn Lemieux's case, Claude wasn't even on the Devils on the time when Lou dealt for him during the 1995-96 season (that's why I didn't bring up Neal Broten when I mentioned the other sibs). Maybe Shero did consider Mueller's heritage when he acquired him, maybe not, but whatever his thought process was, it had nothing to do with some imagined legacy (apparently handed down through ownerships and GMs) with regards to how you think the Devils do business. Not sure why you'd try to create a link where it doesn't exist. The link is just to show that sometimes wacky things happen in hockey. Of course that was a different ownership and a different GM, but it's the same sport, same league, and same collective history. Like I said, I don't particularly care about either side of this argument. No one here, myself included, nor you, can say what's going on in Shero's brain. But I think to say it's not "possible" (rather than plausible) is bad reasoning. Of course it is possible that Shero brought in a Bastian-type buddy for the hell of it, or that it factored into his thinking even slightly. But I think two different things are being argued on this thread. Some are arguing the point: would it help Hischier vs others who are arguing: is it possible that Shero thinks this will help Hischier. Both can be true, because I also don't think having a buddy will do a lick of good for the #1 overall pick. He's super talented and if you go #1, you are a mature player and personality, even at 18. There's no need to fluff the situation with random countrymen. And at the same time, it's also true that it's possible Shero does not think along these lines and felt having a country-buddy would have some added benefit, no matter how small, or heck, even could have received that advice from owners despite not agreeing with it himself. You really never know, and that's the platform I'm on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglejelly Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, mfitz804 said: Are we assuming that all Swiss people know each other or is there a link between these two guys? I mean, I'm from New York, if you picked another random New Yorker to be on my team, that wouldn't mean anything to me, he'd just be another guy. If you were playing in Siberia, having a fellow New Yorker on your team would probably mean a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 we are going to lose or trade defensemen in the expansion and or regular draft.. bank on it.. so shero plainly thinks Mueller is better than Merrill or lovejoy... so that being the case its nice to have another swiss kid. I'll give shero the benefit of the doubt here. it was a skill decision. this is exciting, unfortunately more exciting than the last 3 seasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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