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Devil Dan 56

2019-2020 Training Camp Roster

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6 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Sounds like my sophomore year of high school. In a sexy-time way. 

And less statutory way as well.

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31 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

And less statutory way as well.

I was 15 and she was 19. If that’s wrong, I don’t wanna be right.

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3 hours ago, moustic said:

I'm pretty sure the staff make this decision without thinking at guy like Rooney (I don't think any players were even claim by any teams this year)
It was only linked to the fact that Smith wasn't ready (his play shows that... his mental ? I dunno but i have whole confidence in the staff to judge that) 

It's not the end of the word for him and for us.

What's worry me... it's that we don't have an incredible D corps (and he couldn't crack it) 

Yeah, I thought the same last year. It was going to be even harder now with PK. 

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

1) It should be considered, but why not give him a 9 game look anyways to see if he can figure it out?  Again, we get pissy at people here all the time for basing their opinions on how players are with a small sample size.  Why does Smith not get that sort of treatment?  Now he has to "earn" more games just to get a decent same size?  Huh?

2) Tri's point makes more sense if Rooney was the 13th forward.  He's not as he is the 14th forward.  We now have 14 forwards and 7 defensemen.  Would it be so terrible to carry 13 forwards and 8 defensemen for 9 games instead?  You and others said it yourself, Rooney is unlikely to get claimed.  So what is the harm in this case?  Literally the worse case scenario is that we carry 13 F's and 8D's for 9 games and if Smith is not ready we send him back to Spokane while calling Rooney right back up from Bing.  Is Rooney hanging around practice that important for 9 games?

Without going back and forth further, basically it sounds like you wanted Smith to get the nine game regular season look no matter what...regardless of how he performed in preseason, or even if Shero and others decided that maybe he also might not be mentally ready to be an NHLer.  I can’t agree that Smith should’ve just been given those games, regardless of any circumstances.  

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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Without going back and forth further, basically it sounds like you wanted Smith to get the nine game regular season look no matter what...regardless of how he performed in preseason, or even if Shero and others decided that maybe he also might not be mentally ready to be an NHLer.  I can’t agree that Smith should’ve just been given those games, regardless of any circumstances.  

I agree- he needed to earn those nine games. He didn’t. 

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14 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Without going back and forth further, basically it sounds like you wanted Smith to get the nine game regular season look no matter what...regardless of how he performed in preseason, or even if Shero and others decided that maybe he also might not be mentally ready to be an NHLer.  I can’t agree that Smith should’ve just been given those games, regardless of any circumstances.  

I want the Devils to take some chances to at least figure out what they got.  JJ, Zacha, and others have gotten plenty of chances and failed but Smith's margin of error seems to be much smaller than any of them.

At least the Devils coaching staff continues the consistent trend of being inconsistent.

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34 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I want the Devils to take some chances to at least figure out what they got.  JJ, Zacha, and others have gotten plenty of chances and failed but Smith's margin of error seems to be much smaller than any of them.

At least the Devils coaching staff continues the consistent trend of being inconsistent.

Maybe because of JJ and Zacha they are trying not to rush Smith?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I want the Devils to take some chances to at least figure out what they got.  JJ, Zacha, and others have gotten plenty of chances and failed but Smith's margin of error seems to be much smaller than any of them.

At least the Devils coaching staff continues the consistent trend of being inconsistent.

C'mon, part of the reason JJ and Zacha got chances was due to general lack of talent in the system at the time.  Both players don't get a shot as early as they did (or as much of one) if the Devils simply had worthier players to hold them off or take their jobs.  Zacha being a sixth-overall meant he was likely to get a little more leeway by default.  He has shown flashes here and there too (all the more maddening because he hasn't quite been able to build on them yet...he's been a tease machine for sure). 

We've been over the current D-corp...you've already got four players who can provide offense:  Subban, Butcher, Vatanen, and Severson.  Three of the four have five years experience or more.  Then there's the non-offensive guys:  Greene, Carrick, and Mueller.  No, that threesome doesn't thrill anyone at the moment, but Greene will be gone after this season, and I'm sure that if Mueller and/or Carrick are not getting it done, that Shero will try to find upgrades to do what these guys are supposed to do. 

If Smith had shown enough to get the nine-game look, and then during that nine-game look had shown enough to stick with the big team, you can be sure that Shero would've done something to try to make room for him...wouldn't have surprised me at all that in such an alternative timeline, he moves UFA-to-be Vatanen to open up a spot for Smith. 

This really boils down to one thing:  you're ticked that Smith didn't get a shot because you already had him making the team out of preseason, and no matter how someone pitches it to you that it may not have been in either Smith's or the Devils' best interests for Smith's NHL career to start in 2019-20 as a 19-year-old, you're not having it.  You're even contradicting yourself a little...you say that Smith's preseason can be factored in, but when that leads to what you consider to be the wrong outcome, you basically say to give him a mulligan and just give him the nine games anyway. 

Anyway, the guess here is that Vatanen won't be re-signed this offseason, and a spot will definitely be more readily available for Smith next season.  I do think this move is going to work out better for everyone in the long run.  I just don't think it was nearly as crucial as you do for it to happen for Smith in 2019-20...sure, it would've been great, but like others have said, I don't think it's anywhere near the end of the world for him, nor the Devils.   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Posted (edited)

JJ and Zacha were rushed because the team needed them right away.  Larsson as well.  I mean, Larsson is a great example.  He was a liability, got benched a lot because of it, and it stunted his development.

We don't have a spot for Smith to fill now, it's actually quite the opposite.  So why risk it?

EDIT: Yeah what he said ^

Edited by Crisis
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16 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I was 15 and she was 19. If that’s wrong, I don’t wanna be right.

Image result for nice south park gif

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I want the Devils to take some chances to at least figure out what they got.  JJ, Zacha, and others have gotten plenty of chances and failed but Smith's margin of error seems to be much smaller than any of them.

I tend to agree with this. The fact that Shero is rumored to be shopping for a defenseman (because our D corps aren't up to snuff, or maybe to balance LHD/RHD?) tells me a 9-game stint wouldn't have hobbled Smith or us in any way (during that time), I really don't see what the drawback would have been to giving that to him. I get what you guys are saying about "earning it", but it's just a 9-game trial, and virtually no one we sent down on waivers was going to get claimed, so we can cross that off the list of reasons. But instead, we just closed that door til next Summer.

Edited by DJ Eco

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, DJ Eco said:

I tend to agree with this. The fact that Shero is rumored to be shopping for a defenseman (because our D corps aren't up to snuff, or maybe to balance LHD/RHD?) tells me a 9-game stint wouldn't have hobbled Smith or us in any way (during that time), I really don't see what the drawback would have been to giving that to him. I get what you guys are saying about "earning it", but it's just a 9-game trial, and virtually no one we sent down on waivers was going to get claimed, so we can cross that off the list of reasons. But instead, we just closed that door til next Summer.

As far as rumors go, I think Shero wouldn't mind improving over Mueller and/or Carrick, should the opportunity arise.  He's not shopping for someone of Smith's skillset, if he's shopping at all.

It's the fact that Shero and Hynes willingly closed that door that tells you all that you need to know...some people just don't want to accept it.  It's not like Shero and Hynes didn't know what doing this would mean.  It's that they were so convinced that Smith wasn't ready that they were fully convinced that this was the right way to go. 

You either have some faith that Shero and Hynes (and anyone else who had input in this decision) know what they're doing, or you don't...yes, as fans of course there's going to be "Huh what?" moments, but it's not like the kid wowed during preseason and is now getting screwed.  I guess I'm just surprised that this move is being questioned so vehemently in some circles. 

 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted (edited)

The Devils expected Smith to win a spot in training camp.  They didn't not keep him in order to protect Rooney and Hayden - they wanted him to win a spot and if he had, one of those guys would've been waived.  The fact that Friedman's now reporting that the Devils want to trade for a defenseman means they expected Smith to win a spot in camp and he didn't.  The fact that the Devils were able to reverse their expectations once Smith didn't do the things necessary is a sign of good management - bad management would've just stuck with the prior assumption and hoped he would work his way out of the troubles he was having - bad management hopes things are true because they want them to be true.

They also get the added benefit of not starting Ty Smith's contract this year, something which will help them in 2022-23 if Smith is even a decent NHLer.

Edited by Triumph
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7 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

C'mon, part of the reason JJ and Zacha got chances was due to general lack of talent in the system at the time.  Both players don't get a shot as early as they did (or as much of one) if the Devils simply had worthier players to hold them off or take their jobs.  Zacha being a sixth-overall meant he was likely to get a little more leeway by default.  He has shown flashes here and there too (all the more maddening because he hasn't quite been able to build on them yet...he's been a tease machine for sure). 

We've been over the current D-corp...you've already got four players who can provide offense:  Subban, Butcher, Vatanen, and Severson.  Three of the four have five years experience or more.  Then there's the non-offensive guys:  Greene, Carrick, and Mueller.  No, that threesome doesn't thrill anyone at the moment, but Greene will be gone after this season, and I'm sure that if Mueller and/or Carrick are not getting it done, that Shero will try to find upgrades to do what these guys are supposed to do. 

If Smith had shown enough to get the nine-game look, and then during that nine-game look had shown enough to stick with the big team, you can be sure that Shero would've done something to try to make room for him...wouldn't have surprised me at all that in such an alternative timeline, he moves UFA-to-be Vatanen to open up a spot for Smith. 

This really boils down to one thing:  you're ticked that Smith didn't get a shot because you already had him making the team out of preseason, and no matter how someone pitches it to you that it may not have been in either Smith's or the Devils' best interests for Smith's NHL career to start in 2019-20 as a 19-year-old, you're not having it.  You're even contradicting yourself a little...you say that Smith's preseason can be factored in, but when that leads to what you consider to be the wrong outcome, you basically say to give him a mulligan and just give him the nine games anyway. 

Anyway, the guess here is that Vatanen won't be re-signed this offseason, and a spot will definitely be more readily available for Smith next season.  I do think this move is going to work out better for everyone in the long run.  I just don't think it was nearly as crucial as you do for it to happen for Smith in 2019-20...sure, it would've been great, but like others have said, I don't think it's anywhere near the end of the world for him, nor the Devils.   

I didn't say it shouldn't, but putting it out there that it may be just 3-4 game stretch where he went through a rough patch.  He certainly played better in his last 1-2 games in preseason than the other previous 2-3 games.

But with the lineup that Stein reported today, it looks like preseason performance is a moot point anyways since Hynes believes that Muller, Wood and Hayden deserve a spot opening night over Carrick and Boqvist.  Carrick played far better than Mueller and Boqvist played better than both Wood and Hayden.

Frankly, my patience for our putz coach is really wearing thin and I just don't have a whole lot of faith in him anymore.

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2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I didn't say it shouldn't, but putting it out there that it may be just 3-4 game stretch where he went through a rough patch.  He certainly played better in his last 1-2 games in preseason than the other previous 2-3 games.

But with the lineup that Stein reported today, it looks like preseason performance is a moot point anyways since Hynes believes that Muller, Wood and Hayden deserve a spot opening night over Carrick and Boqvist.  Carrick played far better than Mueller and Boqvist played better than both Wood and Hayden.

Frankly, my patience for our putz coach is really wearing thin and I just don't have a whole lot of faith in him anymore.

I think you're the minority on the bolded. 

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Most consistent coach we've had since the Burns/Lemaire era is now a putz because a 19-year-old didn't earn his spot. Your takes just get worse and worse

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30 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Most consistent coach we've had since the Burns/Lemaire era is now a putz because a 19-year-old didn't earn his spot. Your takes just get worse and worse

I feel he's been one of our best coaches, for sure especially in the recent years.

What I haven't liked were decisions with how he uses the younger guys, (not Smith), and how he went blind to the decline of certain players as the seasons roll on. That being said, new year, so hopefully a new approach.

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49 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I think you're the minority on the bolded. 

He's in the minority in terms of his patience wearing thin based on his stated reasons. But though the team has taken a long-term approach with Hynes, if the Devils don't make the playoffs this year, I have to imagine that's it for him in NJ. He's the sixth longest tenured head coach in the league, and of the nine coaches who have been in their roles since 2015 or earlier, he is one of only two (Jeff Blashill) to have a losing record. He's had some weak rosters, but now he's gotta deliver wins.

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50 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

He's in the minority in terms of his patience wearing thin based on his stated reasons. But though the team has taken a long-term approach with Hynes, if the Devils don't make the playoffs this year, I have to imagine that's it for him in NJ. He's the sixth longest tenured head coach in the league, and of the nine coaches who have been in their roles since 2015 or earlier, he is one of only two (Jeff Blashill) to have a losing record. He's had some weak rosters, but now he's gotta deliver wins.

Again, I don't agree. He had a sh!t roster for years and last year most of the team was injured. In fact, he made the playoffs once when NO ONE even expected it. You can give a guy sh!t and expect him to make lemonade, and I also don't think you can give him lemons for the first time in his NHL career and necessarily expect him to deliver lemonade as a given on the first try. That he's the sixth most tenured coach shouldn't even be an argument, it's meaningless. 

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re: hynes - i have no doubt that he is a good communicator and an excellent teaching coach.

but this season will be the proof if he can win with a talented roster. sometimes, you need on coach to be with you as you build it up and then one to take you home.

see chicago dynasty as a perfect example. the kings to a lesser extent also fit this mold.

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15 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Most consistent coach we've had since the Burns/Lemaire era is now a putz because a 19-year-old didn't earn his spot. Your takes just get worse and worse

lol and this take is terrible as well.  Consistent?  He tells Smith to take a hike off to Spokane because he thinks Smith didn't prove himself in preseason while Boqvist sits in favor of at least two forwards who were far worse than Boqvist in the preseason.

"Consistent" is a word I would not use to describe Hynes.

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14 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Again, I don't agree. He had a sh!t roster for years and last year most of the team was injured. In fact, he made the playoffs once when NO ONE even expected it. You can give a guy sh!t and expect him to make lemonade, and I also don't think you can give him lemons for the first time in his NHL career and necessarily expect him to deliver lemonade as a given on the first try. That he's the sixth most tenured coach shouldn't even be an argument, it's meaningless. 

I am not going to use the sh!t roster to excuse very questionable lineup choices he has made over the years.  The Wood/Hayden in the lineup over Boqvist is Brent Sutter-era level of poor lineup choices.

The Devils made the playoffs in 17-18 mostly due to Hall and to an extent hot goaltending at the right time.  It had zero to do with some "coaching" from Lizard-man,

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I'm not one to get on about coaches much but if we don't make the playoffs or somehow start the season with a long losing record then it's time to move on. 

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10 hours ago, sundstrom said:

re: hynes - i have no doubt that he is a good communicator and an excellent teaching coach.

but this season will be the proof if he can win with a talented roster. sometimes, you need on coach to be with you as you build it up and then one to take you home.

see chicago dynasty as a perfect example. the kings to a lesser extent also fit this mold.

I get the players like him and he seems like a swell guy, but he shouldn't be kept around just because the Devils are afraid that some players will jump ship because they like him.

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42 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not going to use the sh!t roster to excuse very questionable lineup choices he has made over the years.  The Wood/Hayden in the lineup over Boqvist is Brent Sutter-era level of poor lineup choices.

The Devils made the playoffs in 17-18 mostly due to Hall and to an extent hot goaltending at the right time.  It had zero to do with some "coaching" from Lizard-man,

I don't know if I agree with most of this, but for fvck's sake, he totally is a Lizard Man and I am so upset I didn't realize it before this. 

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