This is all I was trying to say...

[msweet]

Ugh I love Marty but quite frankly this is garbage coming from him, especially given this has been his worst playoff series ever.

First of all Martin's busting his ass trying to do his job. He didn't deserve to be immasculated in public though Marty's quote was benign it was still critical. And if you're gonna kill Martin for touching the puck there you HAVE to make that save on Cullen's shot in Game 3; that was a similar angle (if not worse) than the shot Martin was trying to block.

Second of all you wanna kill Lukowich for not slamming Staal to the ice fine, he's played like crap as a Devil anyway - but you CANNOT SAY 'if Stevens and Dano were around' UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. That's the kind of defeatist thinking that destroyed this team in the late '90's; 'If we had Claude, if we had this guy and that guy'. Even in '00 and '01 they couldn't get past it, it was only in '03 that they finally outgrew not having Claude and Holik, Sykora, Arnott etc around. This team should be above that kind of nonsense, down the stretch they were as good as any team in the league; certainly as good as any team currently in the playoffs though Buffalo could argue that point. I thought they were above this, the fact that they aren't to me is 10000 times more dissapointing than any sweep could be.

I agree with all of that.

[redruM]

Ugh I love Marty but quite frankly this is garbage coming from him, especially given this has been his worst playoff series ever.

First of all Martin's busting his ass trying to do his job. He didn't deserve to be immasculated in public though Marty's quote was benign it was still critical. And if you're gonna kill Martin for touching the puck there you HAVE to make that save on Cullen's shot in Game 3; that was a similar angle (if not worse) than the shot Martin was trying to block.

Second of all you wanna kill Lukowich for not slamming Staal to the ice fine, he's played like crap as a Devil anyway - but you CANNOT SAY 'if Stevens and Dano were around' UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. That's the kind of defeatist thinking that destroyed this team in the late '90's; 'If we had Claude, if we had this guy and that guy'. Even in '00 and '01 they couldn't get past it, they had to have Claude come back in '00 to help them win it. It was only in '03 that they finally outgrew not having Claude and Holik, Sykora, Arnott etc around.

This team should be above that kind of nonsense, down the stretch they were as good as any team in the league without Stevens, Nieds, Dano, etc; certainly as good as any team currently in the playoffs though Buffalo could argue that point. I thought they were above this, the fact that they aren't - to me is 10000 times more dissapointing than any sweep could be.

Has I donot disagree w/ ehat you said... but SOMEONE HAS TO HIT STAAL.. no way he should score that goal w/ out even being hit...

whether is White, Neids, Daney stevens, someone woul dhave sent him face down tot he ice... Luch didn't... as a matter of fact he's backing away from Staal moments before the goal...unacceptabl;e!!

The reason we look back at that is that sports are kind of funny.... let's say we lose to Carolina in a normal 6 or 7 games series, with games decided in normal fashion... it's no big deal. We'll mull over the highs and lows, the bad players and good oens and move on from there.

A loss like that is franchise altering.... not only do you lose the series, it effects your franchise for years to come... (remember "The catch" when the 49ers beat the Cowboys... that ended Tom Landry's dynasty)

Exactly.. hate to admit it.. when staal scored i told my son ethe seaosn was over.. he thought i was nuts,,.. " dad the score is tied"..

does not matter how much you pay them.. they are Human.. that goal will eat at them all summer long.. HOPEFULLY they will be over by sept.. HOPEFULLY!!!

[sundstrom]

this is a true black mark on marty. although he did say that he thought it was klee, not martin on the OT goal, that doesn't make it excusable. While he's made some very good saves this series, he was flat out AWFUL in game 1 giving the devils no shot and let in cullen's ghost shot in game 3. this team gets its strength and confidence from him.

he's not helping here.

it's very disappointing.

[Devils731]

The way we lost that lead, then the natural result was to lose the game and then the series, will change the Devils forever.

Sometimes for the better, but most of the time for the worse. Only time will tell.

Are you kidding me? You seem to saying you think that the game 2 loss will negatively affect the franchise for years to come? If you're being serious I think that is asinine.

[Chico]

"If we had Scotty Stevens or Ken Daneyko (Staal) probably would've been on the ground," Brodeur said after the team's morning skate at Continental Airlines Arena.

Red,

Was the quote on tv or in the papers?

Red,

Was the quote on tv or in the papers?

Does anyone know where this was said?

[Pepperkorn]

msweet and Has -- I understand. But I can't feel the betrayal (that is what we're talking about here) but it's not as it appears;. Is this a proven competent team folding for no good reason? I just think they've done so well.. they have gone through so much. Maybe it's the mom in me, but f it's time to rest so be it. Marty is probably just trying to think of ways to motivate - but is too tired to get it right himself even.

I'm tired as a fan. I'm just exhausted and I havne't even see the full games against the Canes

[LizDevil30]

3 F'ing seconds!

[msweet]

Are you kidding me? You seem to saying you think that the game 2 loss will negatively affect the franchise for years to come? If you're being serious I think that is asinine.

It will. Mark my words.

[devilsfan26]

Has I donot disagree w/ ehat you said... but SOMEONE HAS TO HIT STAAL.. no way he should score that goal w/ out even being hit...

whether is White, Neids, Daney stevens, someone woul dhave sent him face down tot he ice... Luch didn't... as a matter of fact he's backing away from Staal moments before the goal...unacceptabl;e!!

Exactly.. hate to admit it.. when staal scored i told my son ethe seaosn was over.. he thought i was nuts,,.. " dad the score is tied"..

Have you ever played on a hockey team? He was backing away from him because there was someone else he had to watch out for! Why do you insist that it was the right play to totally leave someone wide open?

[Devils731]

It will. Mark my words.

Why didn't the Devils fold after the Rangers series in '94? There were some bad losses in that. How come the Devils didn't fold for years after getting sept out by inferior teams in the first round a bunch of times? How come they didn't take forever when they missed the playoffs after winning the cup? It's a totally non-sensical arguement to me to say that these players will be affected for years based on one game. I'm sure next season they'll be int he playoffs and all anyone on the team can think about is Carolina game 2. Ridiculous.

The Devils were so devestated that they came out and really outplayed the Canes last game. By your reasoning they should have gotten blown out because it was on their minds so much.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Devils731

[Triumph]

The Devils had a similar loss in Game 6 against Pittsburgh in the first round in 99.

I think they went on to win the Cup the next year.

[Derek21]

It will. Mark my words.

I don't believe that Msweet. And for one reason. '94 Game 7 Matteau scores in 2 OTs.

The Devils went on to win the Cup the next year and became an elite franchise.

You're also not giving them enough credit. They are an experienced group that's been through the playoff wars before. The great teams can forget about that kind of stuff in future years.

Ex.Edmonton 1986- Steve Smith puts puck in his own net costing them against Calgary. They won their third and fourth Cups the next two years.

"The guys that are put in those situations are trying their best," White said. "It's definitely crunch time in the last 20 seconds, but (the Hurricanes) worked for it."

That's the only thing that should have been said to the press.

[LizDevil30]

The reason we look back at that is that sports are kind of funny.... let's say we lose to Carolina in a normal 6 or 7 games series, with games decided in normal fashion... it's no big deal. We'll mull over the highs and lows, the bad players and good oens and move on from there.

A loss like that is franchise altering.... not only do you lose the series, it effects your franchise for years to come... (remember "The catch" when the 49ers beat the Cowboys... that ended Tom Landry's dynasty)

We are seeing the beginning of the altering now.

The way we lost that lead, then the natural result was to lose the game and then the series, will change the Devils forever.

Sometimes for the better, but most of the time for the worse. Only time will tell.

I don't pretend to know a darn about footbore, but I don't see a comparison to "the catch" which I can only assume took place during a one game elimination Stupidbowl to a game 2 loss in the second round of the SC playoffs.

[RowdyFan42]

It will. Mark my words.

I don't want to put words in msweet's mouth, but I think I see where he's going with this. I *think* he's saying that Lou will be making some substantial personnel changes (and possibly philosophical changes) during the offseason that will alter the face of the New Jersey Devils. It seems to me, though, that some (of not all) or these changes were necessary anyway, at least before the winning streak. The streak kind of covered it up for a while, but this series has re-exposed all of our weaknesses, including the ones that were responsible for the first half of the season.

Is that an accurate read of your intent, msweet, or am I way off base?

[Triumph]

I don't want to put words in msweet's mouth, but I think I see where he's going with this. I *think* he's saying that Lou will be making some substantial personnel changes (and possibly philosophical changes) during the offseason that will alter the face of the New Jersey Devils. It seems to me, though, that some (of not all) or these changes were necessary anyway, at least before the winning streak. The streak kind of covered it up for a while, but this series has re-exposed all of our weaknesses, including the ones that were responsible for the first half of the season.

Is that an accurate read of your intent, msweet, or am I way off base?

I didn't read that at all. What I read was that big losses can cripple franchises for years - the psychological impact is that devastating.

FWIW, I don't think what you're saying about the Devils is quite true either. Even if we do get swept, I can't see Lou looking at this season as a failure or making drastic changes. First of all, he can't - the salary cap has him by the balls. Second, Lou has never done this in the history of the Devils.

[LIDevsFan1]

It will. Mark my words.

I know people here don't like baseball analogies but the Red Sox had a colossal choke in 03 (even by their standards) against the Yanks and we all know what happened next year . . . .

[njdevils783]

I think the big diffence betwen the 94 debacle and the 99 loss to the penguins is that we still had allot of depth. Lets face it our defense is as awful as it ever was and were still built around 1 line.

[LizDevil30]

I think the big diffence betwen the 94 debacle and the 99 loss to the penguins is that we still had allot of depth. Lets face it our defense is as awful as it ever was and were still built around 1 line.

You wouldn't happen to know where that line is would you?

[Devils731]

If you want to say the team is flawed in your opinion, that is fine, but to say one playoff loss is going to wreck the team for years is the part I think is silly.

[Pepperkorn]

If they suck for years to come it's because they just flat out suck - not because one dumb game got to the very core of the organization. Basically to ME what I hear with that last msweet comment is he agrees with marty -- that the Devils were built around Stevens and without Stevens the team is lost... it was a one man team and now the run is over...

[langs15]

It may be too long, but wait until I am 18-20 and full-time devil on defence, and I promise you, I will be the closest thing to Stevens the NHL will see.

[NJDevs4978]

We are seeing the beginning of the altering now.

The way we lost that lead, then the natural result was to lose the game and then the series, will change the Devils forever.

Sometimes for the better, but most of the time for the worse. Only time will tell.

This kind of hyperbole is over the top...people said the same thing about losing Holik, trading 2/3 of the A-line, losing Claude (twice), losing Nieds and Stevens, Lemaire leaving, a bunch of bad playoff losses and yet the team has stayed a contender every year. To me the flashpoint for the franchise will be when Lou himself leaves or perhaps Marty. Elias would be pretty close to a deathblow too but if Nieds didn't kill the team off I don't think Elias would either, but I'd rather not find out.

And the 'catch' analogy you use is kind of overstated, that Cowboy team was going downhill without Staubach and some of the other stalwarts anyway - and got to the NFC Championship the next year too. SF was obviously a team on the rise, that game was a flashpoint but both teams would have continued on their paths anyway.

And red, I have no problem with blaming Lukowich on that play. I'll take my chances with the rest of the team 4-on-5 if Lukowich can eliminate their best offensive player from the play when he's standing right in front of the net - especially while the pass is coming towards him; christ there wouldn't have been enough time for another Cane to go and get the puck if he tacked Staal. Staal was standing there for like seven seconds BEFORE the pass without being touched. What use is Lukowich covering the other guy if Staal's open enough for a point-blank shot with nobody breathing down his neck?

But blaming Lukowich and whining about not having Stevens and Dano who are no longer active players are different things (at least if Marty had used Colin White he would have been naming an active player; I wouldn't have liked that either but at least he wouldn't have been looking to the heavens for guys who aren't around anymore).

Edited May 11, 2006 by Hasan4978

[RowdyFan42]

If they suck for years to come it's because they just flat out suck - not because one dumb game got to the very core of the organization.

If they suck for years to come, it's because Lou raided the system in pursuit of spare parts for Cup runs.

One dumb game (or one tragic series) is not the cause of years of misery, but it is a symptom of the onset of it. See also the first half of this season.

Basically to ME what I hear with that last msweet comment is he agrees with marty -- that the Devils were built around Stevens and without Stevens the team is lost... it was a one man team and now the run is over...

Perhaps not a one-man team, but he was, without a question, the heart and soul of the team.

[annabelle]

"If we had Scotty Stevens or Ken Daneyko (Staal) probably would've been on the ground," Brodeur said after the team's morning skate at Continental Airlines Arena.

That's not an excuse to lose though, but so very true

['7']

Ok, that loss was bad....REALLY BAD. But still, putting it in perspective it was game TWO, it put us down 2-0 in the middle round. It wasn't game 7 of the ECF or Cup Finals, this loss was horrible but all they needed was a win in game 3 to make it a series again. They didn't do it. They can still make it a series again, so you can't shovel dirt on the Devils just yet.

this was not a loss where you could say there is no tomorrow. All a win would've done is make it 1-1, and who knows, Carolina might've swept the next 3 anyway.

Edited May 12, 2006 by '7'