2017 UFA Thread

[CommonDreads]

I don't necessarily want to trade Henrique, he's arguably my favorite player on the roster right now, but he's probably the only forward on our roster not named Hall, Palmieri, or Zacha that could fetch us a good defenseman. If we don't improve our defense, we're going to be just as bad next season, so for the good of improving the team, if you can find a team willing to swap a #3 defenseman for Henrique, who is likely a middle 6 center, you have to at the very least consider it.

[MadDog2020]

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/lebrun-devils-will-probably-bid-ufa-shattenkirk/


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[CommonDreads]

Also this re: Shattenkirk, if the Rangers aren't as eager for Shattenkirk as everyone thinks they are, we could have a legitimate shot on July 1

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mckenzie-wonders-eager-rangers-actually-sign-shattenkirk/

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

Also this re: Shattenkirk, if the Rangers aren't as eager for Shattenkirk as everyone thinks they are, we could have a legitimate shot on July 1

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mckenzie-wonders-eager-rangers-actually-sign-shattenkirk/

Even the suggestion that the Rags are close to a rebuild is music to my ears.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, Martyisth3b3st said:

Tell Kevin you'll offer him $1m more per year than any other team, you'll guarantee him the most playing time, and you'll let him sleep with any of your hot daughters/nieces. For fvcks sake, go full-Pitino and bring a bus full of strippers to the contract discussion. 

Do. Whatever. It. Takes.

It's funny...when it comes to the actual contract and numbers, Shattenkirk won't be a good deal.

BUT

A glamour signing like this really signals to your fanbase "We're back in this thing, we've started going full-in on building a competitive playoff team, that we hope can become a Cup candidate in the not-too-distant future."  Sometimes that first "not really great from a long-term standpoint" contract leads to other bolder (and occasionally pricey) moves being made...obviously some other things have happened (dealing for Hall, drafting Nico), but this kind of signing gets your fans that much more excited, and Shattenkirk should help the Devils for at least a few years.  So though Shattenkirk will likely be signing a contract that we may not be thrilled with down the line, I say just do it...

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's funny...when it comes to the actual contract and numbers, Shattenkirk won't be a good deal.

BUT

A glamour signing like this really signals to your fanbase "We're back in this thing, we've started going full-in on building a competitive playoff team, that we hope can become a Cup candidate in the not-too-distant future."  Sometimes that first "not really great from a long-term standpoint" contract leads to other bolder (and occasionally pricey) moves being made...obviously some other things have happened (dealing for Hall, drafting Nico), but this kind of signing gets your fans that much more excited, and Shattenkirk should help the Devils for at least a few years.  So though Shattenkirk will likely be signing a contract that we may not be thrilled with down the line, I say just do it...

That's the way of the world now. If you don't give those extra years that you know will not be as good because of age related decline, someone else will and you won't get the player. That's why guys like Oshie get an 8 year extension. 

Its the cost of doing business. 

[CommonDreads]

The Rangers attempting to be competitive will last as long as Hank's knee cartilage still has something left to give, after that they're gonna be forced to tear it down unless Shestyorkin really is the real deal.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

That's the way of the world now. If you don't give those extra years that you know will not be as good because of age related decline, someone else will and you won't get the player. That's why guys like Oshie get an 8 year extension. 

Its the cost of doing business. 

Sure, agree completely, but the Devils could've jumped in and signed a UFA to one of those bad contracts last year or the year before...but when you're taking a step back and starting almost from scratch, you won't do that...you'll go more with bargain signings and stopgap signings and very cautious signings until you feel like you're really ready to start competing again.  That's why I like the idea of Shattenkirk at this moment...because of what his signing will represent.  It doesn't hurt that he should have multiple prime years left, and should fill a need quite nicely...and like I said, will hopefully lead to other big moves.

[mfitz804]

51 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

This is true....but in very many ways it isn't true. 

We paid Marc Savard 6 million on the cap this year. If We pay Shatty 8m/y when he's probably only worth 5m/y... are we really going to even notice? Do you see us being within 3m of the salary cap in the forseeable future? Maybe we will be eventually, but 'eventually' we won't be paying Lovejoy and 'eventually' we won't be paying Cammalleri. 

Agreed. Every time I hear someone talk about how we have someone on a "bad contract" I laugh. We actually took on someone else's injured player because we had so much room. 

Should we use all that room to sign a bunch of stud free agents? Sure, I would be on board with that. But in the absence of that, and when you are relying on "youth" which generally speaking has a cheaper price tag, paying Shattenkirk $8m a year instead of $5m is kind of an irrelevancy. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed. Every time I hear someone talk about how we have someone on a "bad contract" I laugh. We actually took on someone else's injured player because we had so much room. 

Should we use all that room to sign a bunch of stud free agents? Sure, I would be on board with that. But in the absence of that, and when you are relying on "youth" which generally speaking has a cheaper price tag, paying Shattenkirk $8m a year instead of $5m is kind of an irrelevancy. 

Just about EVERY team is going to have some bad contracts...unless you have an endless pipeline of young and cheap players you can keep bringing up as replacements for playing seeking riches elsewhere, which no team does. 

My point wasn't not to sign Shattenkirk because he'll be overpaid...more addressing that some people will undoubtedly say "Why do we want to sign Player X to a bad contract?", almost as a defensive mechanism.  You are right, with the current state of the Devils cap (give Shero credit there for not going for quick fixes and being patient), Shattenkirk's cap hit shouldn't be much of an issue.    

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Just about EVERY team is going to have some bad contracts...unless you have an endless pipeline of young and cheap players you can keep bringing up as replacements for playing seeking riches elsewhere, which no team does. 

My point wasn't not to sign Shattenkirk because he'll be overpaid...more addressing that some people will undoubtedly say "Why do we want to sign Player X to a bad contract?", almost as a defensive mechanism.  You are right, with the current state of the Devils cap (give Shero credit there for not going for quick fixes and being patient), Shattenkirk's cap hit shouldn't be much of an issue.    

The point I guess I was making is, if you give a guy an 8 year deal and you get 5 good years and 3 crap years, its not necessarily a bad contract. Its what you had to do to get the 5 good years instead of the Rangers getting them.

If you isolate just the 3 bad years, its easy to say it was a bad contract, but it doesn't work that way. Not in today's world. You can't say "well gee, he'll only be good until he's 35, so I will only give him a contract until he's 35" when 10 other teams will give him a deal until he's 38. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The point I guess I was making is, if you give a guy an 8 year deal and you get 5 good years and 3 crap years, its not necessarily a bad contract. Its what you had to do to get the 5 good years instead of the Rangers getting them.

If you isolate just the 3 bad years, its easy to say it was a bad contract, but it doesn't work that way. Not in today's world. You can't say "well gee, he'll only be good until he's 35, so I will only give him a contract until he's 35" when 10 other teams will give him a deal until he's 38. 

It won't even be just the years...does Shattenkirk really seem like an $8 million or so per year player to you?  Not to me...but as we all know, this is how it goes in UFA, especially for the upper-tier players...and in this case, the Devils are going to have to bowl him over in that "We really really REALLY want you" kind of way...the Devils are clearly not a "Take a discount because I want to play there so badly" kind of team at the moment.  But yeah, if we got four or five good years (and one not-awful one), we'll all happily sign up for it.  And like others have noted, with all of the cap room the Devils have, they can overpay in both cash and term and it won't be a problem. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It won't even be just the years...does Shattenkirk really seem like an $8 million or so per year player to you?  Not to me...but as we all know, this is how it goes in UFA, especially for the upper-tier players...and in this case, the Devils are going to have to bowl him over in that "We really really REALLY want you" kind of way...the Devils are clearly not a "Take a discount because I want to play there so badly" kind of team at the moment.  But yeah, if we got four or five good years (and one not-awful one), we'll all happily sign up for it.  And like others have noted, with all of the cap room the Devils have, they can overpay in both cash and term and it won't be a problem. 

As you intimated, since there's probably 3-4 other teams that will pay him $8 million, I guess he's an $8 million player. I could say he's worth $5m or $6m, but he can easily get $8m, then its $8m. 

Its true of anything, the "value" is what the market will bear. If you are buying a house and you see one and you think its worth $500k, but 3 other people are putting in bids of $600k, guess what...the house is now worth $600k. You can take your $500k and shove it because you ain't getting that house. 

 

[mfitz804]

Just read this article. Apparently we need to address defense, scoring and goaltending in free agency and we'll be all good.

http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2017/06/what_the_devils_need_to_address_in_free_agency.html

I should have been a sports writer, seems anyone can do it. 

[CarpathianForest]

Just like with any other market, Shattenkirk is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Keep in mind that defensemen of his caliber don't become UFAs every season.

[NJDfan1711]

Is there anything to substantiate Henrique getting traded?  I mean, any rumors or sources beyond people here that just have that "feeling" ?   I don't think it makes much sense either, unless we're blow away by an offer.  I also don't see Thornton coming here.  I don't know that he'd want to, and I just don't think he's a good fit.  

I'm thrilled to hear Bennett has become a UFA, and I hope it stays that way.  Let someone else sign him.

As for who else we might go after...I wouldn't mind taking a shot at attempting to sign any of these guys:  Radulov, Kulikov, Stone, Franson, Alzner. and of course Shattenkirk.  

[Devil Dan 56]

5 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Is there anything to substantiate Henrique getting traded?  I mean, any rumors or sources beyond people here that just have that "feeling" ?   I don't think it makes much sense either, unless we're blow away by an offer.  I also don't see Thornton coming here.  I don't know that he'd want to, and I just don't think he's a good fit.  

I'm thrilled to hear Bennett has become a UFA, and I hope it stays that way.  Let someone else sign him.

As for who else we might go after...I wouldn't mind taking a shot at attempting to sign any of these guys:  Radulov, Kulikov, Stone, Franson, Alzner. and of course Shattenkirk.  

The reason Henriques name comes up is because he's a player that the Devils could probably get huge value for and may also be expendable. With Zacha, McLeod, and Nico coming up, people are speculating that it would be a good time to sell on Henrique while his value is most likely at its highest. 

 

 

[Daniel]

Twitter EXPLODING that Mike Condon signed a new three year deal.  Seriously, is there anything lamer in free agency or leading up to free agency than signing a backup goalie.  There should be some sort of league rule about it.

[LittleBallofHate]

Bob McKenzie‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie  

NYR and Brendan Smith are close to finalizing what is expected to be a four-year deal.

It will be an AAV of $4.35M.

EDITED to Add: That's a LOT for him - I thought he'd go for much less - no NYR discount, go figure. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by LittleBallofHate

[CommonDreads]

Wonder if that means anything about the Rangers interest in Shattenkirk. Now have McDonagh, Smith, Staal, Holden, Skjei, and DeAngelo signed for next year who will all definitely play in the NHL, and possibly Kevin Klein who hasn't yet retired.

[Devilsfan118]

Barring a trade I feel like the Smith deal probably takes the Rangers out of the Shattenkirk sweepstakes.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, CarpathianForest said:

Just like with any other market, Shattenkirk is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Keep in mind that defensemen of his caliber don't become UFAs every season.

Yes. And for a team without a cap issue that has been carrying Savard's $6m just for fun, you can afford to open the wallet for a guy like that. 

[NJDfan1711]

1 hour ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

No, just rumors. 

Confused as to why you don't want BB8 back. He is young and still has plenty of potential. 

I feel like you and I have this discussion a lot, and I can tell you like him and see value in him, and I on the other hand see almost none lol.  To each his own, I'm not saying he's the worst player in the world, but when you use the word potential, especially saying he has plenty, I beg to differ.  I think the guy has peaked, and it's not a high peak either.  Maybe, maybe his situational awareness is good, but even that is not really enough to overcome these God awful numbers:

3-11-14 (granted in 26 GP)

3-4-7 in 21 GP

4-8-12 in 49 GP (bleh)

6-6-12 in 33 GP (bleh)

8-11-19 in 65 GP

So underwhelming.  I think on his best day or with better linemates he's a 15-20 goal scorer max, and that's probably a fluke.  He's not gonna crack our top 6 so we won't get to see what he could potentially do with more icetime and better teammates, and I'll agree that he's a serviceable bottom 6 guy, but I still believe there's better to be had out there, or even in our current lineup (gimme Blandisi, Quennville, hell, maybe even Cammo over him)

 

1 hour ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

The reason Henriques name comes up is because he's a player that the Devils could probably get huge value for and may also be expendable. With Zacha, McLeod, and Nico coming up, people are speculating that it would be a good time to sell on Henrique while his value is most likely at its highest. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm not denying his value, but the way I see it, and the way our team needs to get better and improve, is through the draft, like we did with Nico, and through free agency, like we did with a guy like Palmieri.  We've basically seen this same thing with Hall.  Great player, sure, but we gave up a pretty great player to get him.  So in essence, why trade a guy like Henrique who is a serviceable 2nd liner for us, for the unknown?  We need to keep all of the good players we have, at least the young ones anyway.  We know what Henrique brings, and that's important to what we have going at the moment.  In my opinion it's not worth the risk trying to 1-up another team and bring back a greater asset than what you're giving up if we tried to move him.  

[Nicomo]

3 hours ago, CarpathianForest said:

Just like with any other market, Shattenkirk is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Keep in mind that defensemen of his caliber don't become UFAs every season.

Exactly. And for a little perspective, his 56 points would have been good for 1st on the Devils in scoring last season...

[Chuck the Duck]

21 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Exactly. And for a little perspective, his 56 points would have been good for 1st on the Devils in scoring last season...

I agree that the Devils need puck moving D and have tons of cap space to sign him, but Shattenkirk isn't likely to put up those numbers with the Devils as the teams he was on last season are both appreciably better than the lineup we will ice in 2017-18.  He's a good defenseman, and is just what we need.  However, no matter who he signs with, people are going to expect him to be a #1 D who puts up big numbers based upon the term and value of his contract - and they likely will be disappointed as a result.