What’s your max offer for Tavares

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, CommonDreads said:

Nor should he to be honest, Lou didn't draft him, Trotz didn't help him develop as a player, that's why I was so confused when everyone was signing Tavares' contract for him when Lou hopped over to the Island.

It’s not an issue of being loyal to certain people in the organization, like a specific GM.  If he were loyal to Snow and that made a difference, he didnt have to use cryptic language and smoke signals.  He could have said, I want to re-sign and I’ll only do it if Snow and Weight are here and that would have been the end of it.

The issue is whether he’s loyal to the Islanders fans and the community.  He doesn’t have to be, but that’s what people are really talking about.

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

The issue is whether he’s loyal to the Islanders fans and the community.  He doesn’t have to be, but that’s what people are really talking about.

It comes down to a juxtaposition of that loyalty to the fans and community, and the team's loyalty to him. And the team has already demonstrated its loyalty with a ridiculous 8 year contract offer. 

I'd certainly love to be in the position to turn down an 8 year, $88 million job because I KNOW I can get a 7 year deal that's just as lucrative. 

[Daniel]

12 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

It comes down to a juxtaposition of that loyalty to the fans and community, and the team's loyalty to him. And the team has already demonstrated its loyalty with a ridiculous 8 year contract offer. 

I'd certainly love to be in the position to turn down an 8 year, $88 million job because I KNOW I can get a 7 year deal that's just as lucrative. 

If someone was going to pay you the same amount of money to work in a crappy law firm that does uninteresting work, but you’ve been there a while, versus a stellar law firm that does interesting work, you might jump ship.

Thats really what Tavares is weighing right now.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

34 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah, that's insane.  If Hall did say that, and it's actually true that they work out together nearly every day in the summer, I think that statement could represent one of two things.... either Hall is basically saying that no one really knows what Tavares is planning to do except for probably his immediate family, and maybe the Devils still are in fact silently in the running, or, that he just had no interest in coming here at all.  Why that would be, I have no idea.

I actually kinda think he does owe it to us.  He's the GM, and it's his duty to try and make this team the best team it can be.  We all know Tavares would make this team an instant contender, probably for a long time, and most of us are savvy fans who are away of the team's financial circumstances (read: we have the room to bring him on board).  So if it doesn't happen, I absolutely think he owes it to us to say/show/prove that he did what he could to make that happen.  If it turns out that the guy just absolutely had no interest in coming here for one reason or another, than so be it, you can't force the guy.  But I do think Shero needs to say something.  Not now, but once it's announced and he's made his decision, then say something.  He has to know all of the fans are talking about it.

The last paragraph is a bit too millennial for me.  After everything we've seen Shero do to date, when he came into what looked like a near-hopeless situation, now he might owe us an answer as to why he couldn't land a player who appears to have absolutely ZERO interest in becoming a Devil?  JT is holding all of the cards on this one...he has his list of teams that he wants to talk to for reasons that only have to make sense to him, and the Devils aren't on it.

At any rate, Shero has already convinced me that he's trying to make this team the best it can be.  Not sure how anyone can doubt that.

[mfitz804]

7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If someone was going to pay you the same amount of money to work in a crappy law firm that does uninteresting work, but you’ve been there a while, versus a stellar law firm that does interesting work, you might jump ship.

Thats really what Tavares is weighing right now.

I didn't express which way I would go, only that I'd love to be in that position. 

[MadDog2020]

I hope Shero comes out and at least addresses that he TRIED to have a dialogue with JT's camp.
Doesn't have to, doesn't owe us or anything but selfishly I'd like him to address this.

At this point I just want confirmation Shero didn’t disappear to an island in the Pacific somewhere lol.


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[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

At this point I just want confirmation Shero didn’t disappear to an island in the Pacific somewhere lol.


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How many of Shero's moves did you see coming (to me most of his deals came as surprises)?  I don't know if it was like that in Pittsburgh, but here he has a way of getting moves done when we least expect it. 

The one thing that I'll say in his defense (if he doesn't do a whole lot this offseason) is what Tri alluded to earlier...it's easy to forget there's still more kids to evaluate, some who still don't have that much time in the NHL yet relatively speaking, and others who seem like they're going to be here soon.  I'll almost take a quiet offseason as a sign that Shero REALLY likes what he's got to start the season with, or feels more kids are ready to join the big club.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't feel some level of mild disappointment (splashy moves always get the blood pumping), but being that Shero has hardly been shy about making deals since coming here, I'll have to assume that a potentially uneventful offseason might happen by design. 

[MadDog2020]

How many of Shero's moves did you see coming (to me most of his deals came as surprises)?  I don't know if it was like that in Pittsburgh, but here he has a way of getting moves done when we least expect it. 

The one thing that I'll say in his defense (if he doesn't do a whole lot this offseason) is what Tri alluded to earlier...it's easy to forget there's still more kids to evaluate, some who still don't have that much time in the NHL yet relatively speaking, and others who seem like they're going to be here soon.  I'll almost take a quiet offseason as a sign that Shero REALLY likes what he's got to start the season with, or feels more kids are ready to join the big club.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't feel some level of mild disappointment (splashy moves always get the blood pumping), but being that Shero has hardly been shy about making deals since coming here, I'll have to assume that a potentially uneventful offseason might happen by design. 

I’m not even talking about moves.... dude hasn’t said a word post-draft. He usually has a media availability after the draft, as do most GM’s. He’s been radio silent- moreso than usual.

 

 

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[Daniel]

25 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The last paragraph is a bit too millennial for me.  After everything we've seen Shero do to date, when he came into what looked like a near-hopeless situation, now he might owe us an answer as to why he couldn't land a player who appears to have absolutely ZERO interest in becoming a Devil?  JT is holding all of the cards on this one...he has his list of teams that he wants to talk to for reasons that only have to make sense to him, and the Devils aren't on it.

At any rate, Shero has already convinced me that he's trying to make this team the best it can be.  Not sure how anyone can doubt that.

The only thing I’m worried about with Shero is that he will be too obsessed with theoretical player “value” at the expense of acquiring the players the team needs to win a Cup.  Not saying that’s what’s going on, just that it’s something that might get in the way.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

I’m not even talking about moves.... dude hasn’t said a word post-draft. He usually has a media availability after the draft, as do most GM’s. He’s been radio silent- moreso than usual.

I guess a good question is are a lot of GMs putting themselves out there right now?  I honestly don't know.  Shero does have a hell of a lot of in-house guys to sign, with all of the qualifying offers.  Could be swamped with that. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, Daniel said:

The only thing I’m worried about with Shero is that he will be too obsessed with theoretical player “value” at the expense of acquiring the players the team needs to win a Cup.  Not saying that’s what’s going on, just that it’s something that might get in the way.

I can't worry about that until I see actual evidence of it.  The team just got back to being legitimately competitive last season, and there's still youth to learn more about in the system.  And the biggest fish (as far as forwards go) doesn't want to come here...I do think if JT had interest, Shero wouldn't have been half-hearted about getting involved...I think he would've jumped in hard. 

Not really sure what might give anyone the impression that Shero wouldn't try to acquire "Cup-winning" kinds of players.  I don't get that vibe from him at all.

[NJDevils1214]

It is rumored that NJ expressed interest in JVR, Carlson, and Maroon. I don't think Ray is on vacation and I don't think he owes us fans anything. 

[NJDfan1711]

36 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The last paragraph is a bit too millennial for me.  After everything we've seen Shero do to date, when he came into what looked like a near-hopeless situation, now he might owe us an answer as to why he couldn't land a player who appears to have absolutely ZERO interest in becoming a Devil?  JT is holding all of the cards on this one...he has his list of teams that he wants to talk to for reasons that only have to make sense to him, and the Devils aren't on it.

At any rate, Shero has already convinced me that he's trying to make this team the best it can be.  Not sure how anyone can doubt that.

Haha, that's true. I guess I should have worded it a bit differently.  Personally, I feel, perhaps he doesn't "owe" it to us, but maybe more that he *should* say something.  Basically in the vein of it being a millennial world now, as you alluded to, in the sense that nowadays everyone is all about transparency and full disclosure.  Long gone are the days of taking someone's word for it, sad but true.  So I'll re-phrase my initial thoughts and say that I don't think he owes it to us, from my own standpoint it doesn't really matter to me that much, but I think it would be in Shero's best interest, for his job security and to put the fan's minds at ease.  Let's say he signs with the Sharks on Monday - you know reporters are going to be all over it and there will still be a buzz.  Obviously people here and reporters that cover the team know we would have liked to have brought him in and we could have easily afforded it, so chances are Shero may very well get asked about it - it could be in innocuous comment in some situation like that, so maybe it just does down as simply as this:  Reporter: "Ray, what are your thoughts on John Tavares signing with San Jose, and are you disappointed that New Jersey wasn't considered?"   Shero: "Yes obviously we would have liked to have added him to our team, we did what we could to show him the benefits of our organization, but in the end the decision was up to him and he made a choice that he thought was best for him."

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't need the GM telling me what he tried to do, wanted to do, etc. I'm not going to think he's a better GM based on anything other than what he DOES.

Do I need Ray to tell me he tried for Tavares? No, I don't. I assume he did. Him telling me he did and failed doesn't help me at all. If he says he didn't, he could be being truthful or he could be trying to save face. You'll never know if you're getting the truth. 

I'll judge him on the moves he makes. 

Yeah I hear ya, and I agree.  As I mentioned above responding to CR's post, it doesn't necessarily matter to me personally, but rather that I think it would kind of be in his best interest as a GM.  Like you, I'm much more focused on transactions that actually execute, rather than on a bunch of what-could've-been scenarios.  I assume and hope that Shero did all he could to bring him in, and for me it just comes down to a level of trust - you have to have faith that you have the right man for the job and that he's doing all he can do, sight unseen, to make your team better.  Unfortunately I just don't think the majority of the rest of the world (err, fanbase) sees it that way anymore - we live in a society of ultimate accountability, and people demand answers for every little thing now.

[mfitz804]

56 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The last paragraph is a bit too millennial for me.  

Spot on. You aren't entitled to know what the GM is doing nor what his thinking is, on any topic. 

 

3 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Unfortunately I just don't think the majority of the rest of the world (err, fanbase) sees it that way anymore - we live in a society of ultimate accountability, and people demand answers for every little thing now.

See above lol. 

[NJDfan1711]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Spot on. You aren't entitled to know what the GM is doing nor what his thinking is, on any topic. 

 

See above lol. 

Completely agree.  Another point not really mentioned though is what do you think ownership thinks or expects?  Ultimately those are the guys he has to answer to, and I have to wonder to what degree they're involved in any of those.  Maybe and probably none at all.  I have no idea how hands-on or hands-off they are, but I know if I were an owner, I'd at least be abreast of what's going on and would be wondering if my team was in the mix for landing one of the biggest free agents in the past 5-7 years.

[mfitz804]

Just now, NJDfan1711 said:

Completely agree.  Another point not really mentioned though is what do you think ownership thinks or expects?  Ultimately those are the guys he has to answer to, and I have to wonder to what degree they're involved in any of those.  Maybe and probably none at all.  I have no idea how hands-on or hands-off they are, but I know if I were an owner, I'd at least be abreast of what's going on and would be wondering if my team was in the mix for landing one of the biggest free agents in the past 5-7 years.

I'm pretty confident that the GM and ownership discuss this type of stuff, if ownership wishes to. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Haha, that's true. I guess I should have worded it a bit differently.  Personally, I feel, perhaps he doesn't "owe" it to us, but maybe more that he *should* say something.  Basically in the vein of it being a millennial world now, as you alluded to, in the sense that nowadays everyone is all about transparency and full disclosure.  Long gone are the days of taking someone's word for it, sad but true.  So I'll re-phrase my initial thoughts and say that I don't think he owes it to us, from my own standpoint it doesn't really matter to me that much, but I think it would be in Shero's best interest, for his job security and to put the fan's minds at ease.  Let's say he signs with the Sharks on Monday - you know reporters are going to be all over it and there will still be a buzz.  Obviously people here and reporters that cover the team know we would have liked to have brought him in and we could have easily afforded it, so chances are Shero may very well get asked about it - it could be in innocuous comment in some situation like that, so maybe it just does down as simply as this:  Reporter: "Ray, what are your thoughts on John Tavares signing with San Jose, and are you disappointed that New Jersey wasn't considered?"   Shero: "Yes obviously we would have liked to have added him to our team, we did what we could to show him the benefits of our organization, but in the end the decision was up to him and he made a choice that he thought was best for him."

Yeah I hear ya, and I agree.  As I mentioned above responding to CR's post, it doesn't necessarily matter to me personally, but rather that I think it would kind of be in his best interest as a GM.  Like you, I'm much more focused on transactions that actually execute, rather than on a bunch of what-could've-been scenarios.  I assume and hope that Shero did all he could to bring him in, and for me it just comes down to a level of trust - you have to have faith that you have the right man for the job and that he's doing all he can do, sight unseen, to make your team better.  Unfortunately I just don't think the majority of the rest of the world (err, fanbase) sees it that way anymore - we live in a society of ultimate accountability, and people demand answers for every little thing now.

Re:  the bolded in this case...I think if the Devils were one of two or three finalists yet came up just short in the JT sweepstakes, I could see that "Uber-accountability" crowd feeling like they have some right to expect answers as to why JT didn't choose the Devils, even though they probably won't like the answer anyway (and as we know, in the end the player is simply going to make his choice, no matter what a GM does in trying to sign him).  

But here, six specific teams were given dibs, and as far as I know, there's no 7th or 8th team that tried to force their way into the fray...so it seems like everyone else got the hint.  I think anyone expecting Shero to answer for something that he had no control over at all is not being reasonable. 

But yeah, I'm sure if asked, Shero will probably utter a canned quote about not landing Tavares, though I'd guess it would be even LESS specific than the one you came up with ("We would obviously heavily explore adding a player of that ability, if he's interested in playing for our franchise.")

Edited June 29, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Chuck the Duck]

I think all teams in the Metro (outside of the Isles of course) were basically told thanks, but no thanks by JT's camp.  I can't imagine any scenario where the Devils (or most teams in the league) didn't at least call and inquire about him. 

Best case scenario is he leaves our division and our conference, meaning we only play him 2x per season.  We never had a chance at getting him, so I'm hoping we see him as little as possible going forward.  At this point, I think it's between the Isles, Toronto and SJ for him.  If he does go to Toronto, they better hope the cap rises significantly in the next few years otherwise they will be in utter cap hell trying to get all of their young talent under contract. 

[Nicomo]

2 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Well, have to imagine Hall was at least in his ear about the Devils a bit.  Just wasn't in the cards.

I call bs on the fiancé not knowing. I guarantee she’s helping make the decision. Especially if he ends up in California. 

[NJDfan1711]

14 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I'm pretty confident that the GM and ownership discuss this type of stuff, if ownership wishes to. 

Yeah you'd think so, but that's kind of why I feel l like if he's going to give some sort of an explanation to ownership, what is it to turn around and give the same explanation to the fans?  I mean in a weird sense, referring back to that millennial entitlement theory, GMs in this day and age almost report to two people/groups.  They report to the owners of course, but I'm willing to bet there are lots of fans out there feel like they report to them too.  Present company excluded - I'm talking more about the HFBoards and the Facebook types.  

I guess in comparison to the rest of the league, are the GMs of many other teams offering up thoughts on Tavares and why they did or didn't go after him?  Probably not.  The GM of the Blackhawks probably doesn't say anything, because they don't have the cap room to add him.  The Coyotes GM doesn't say anything because he has no ties to their market and they're not on the up and up right now and not an attractive destination for him.  But us?  I think, leading up to this off-season, the fans, right wrong or indifferent, built up a ton of hype around Tavares and the ever-so-realistic possibility of him coming here, to the point where people will expect an answer when it inevitably, albeit expectedly, doesn't come to fruition. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah you'd think so, but that's kind of why I feel l like if he's going to give some sort of an explanation to ownership, what is it to turn around and give the same explanation to the fans?  I mean in a weird sense, referring back to that millennial entitlement theory, GMs in this day and age almost report to two people/groups.  They report to the owners of course, but I'm willing to bet there are lots of fans out there feel like they report to them too.  Present company excluded - I'm talking more about the HFBoards and the Facebook types.  

I guess in comparison to the rest of the league, are the GMs of many other teams offering up thoughts on Tavares and why they did or didn't go after him?  Probably not.  The GM of the Blackhawks probably doesn't say anything, because they don't have the cap room to add him.  The Coyotes GM doesn't say anything because he has no ties to their market and they're not on the up and up right now and not an attractive destination for him.  But us?  I think, leading up to this off-season, the fans, right wrong or indifferent, built up a ton of hype around Tavares and the ever-so-realistic possibility of him coming here, to the point where people will expect an answer when it inevitably, albeit expectedly, doesn't come to fruition. 

The millennial entitleds will bitch about Shero's answer anyway.  That crowd cannot grasp that they can't always have everything that they want (on several fronts, not just their professional sport interests), and that not everything can be made to happen just because.  They'll say "Well Shero just didn't try hard enough then, he shouldn't have taken no for an answer and forced JT and his agent to listen!"  If the majority of that crowd had any brains, they would've realized that once the Devils weren't on JT's list of teams, that this thing was over before it ever had a chance to begin, through zero fault of Shero's.  They'd also take it one step further and realize that JT shut out the whole Metro division, apparently by design.

[Lateralous]

16 hours ago, Chuck the Duck said:

I think all teams in the Metro (outside of the Isles of course) were basically told thanks, but no thanks by JT's camp.  I can't imagine any scenario where the Devils (or most teams in the league) didn't at least call and inquire about him. 

This is my thought as well.   I think it will come out that all other teams in the Metro were a non starter for him.  It’s too bad because otherwise, we had a lot to offer.   

It kind of makes sense not to be flurting with your team’s biggest rivals if you think there’s a good chance you’ll stay on the island.   

[MadDog2020]

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[Devilsfan118]

2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

 

 

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EXCLUSIVE:  LIVE SHOT OF JOHN TAVARES STRUGGLING TO MAKE DECISION:

[MadDog2020]

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