Hughes or Kakko

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

This is like a Yankee fan who grew up in the 50’s and 60’s saying ‘meh, never cared for Mantle’.

Why is that so terrible?  It is not like that team was devoid of any other big talent outside of Mantle.

[DevsMan84]

11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I agree with everything here...I never had a problem with Marty (even on the very rare occasions when I was frustrated with his play), or ever really thought of him as a "me me me" guy...I was acknowledging that there are Devils fans who feel that way about him though.  He's really more polarizing than he should be, given the obvious (having an insanely long peak and plenty of hardware to go with it), even if he hung on too long. 

While I do not subscribe to Marty being the best goalie in NHL history narrative, I won't deny he was very talented and had a really long prime.

I can be alright with Marty the goalie but not so much like Marty the person.

[MadDog2020]

3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Why is that so terrible?  It is not like that team was devoid of any other big talent outside of Mantle.

Who said it was terrible? I just think it’s weird. But to each their own.

[DevsMan84]

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

Who said it was terrible? I just think it’s weird. But to each their own.

I never claimed it was completely rational either.

[Devil Dan 56]

14 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post.  However, while you and many others turned a blind eye I went the other way and was always annoyed about that.  Why can't the guy be a great athlete and not be 100% full of themselves?  I don't think that those have to always go together 100% of the time.

I can certainly understand your view on that. I was definitely much more a fan of the player than the man I suppose. 

[mfitz804]

14 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I can be alright with Marty the goalie but not so much like Marty the person.

I, personally, was rooting for him as a player. Anything else he did, whatever. 

[devlman]

28 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

As mentioned several times above, I do believe Marty was very much a "me, me, me" type of person.  In his book he devoted nearly an entire chapter explaining what a great guy he was for not taking full market value on his contract renewals with the Devils.  In addition, over the years I can remember several times where after games if the team won it was because he played a large part of it but when they lost it was a team loss.

His little temper tantrum at the end of 13-14 was not a new Marty, but the person Marty always was.  It was just at that point people were no longer fawning completely over him and the team was crap so fans were not blinded to his real personality.  There was even a thread in one of the FB groups last week about how Marty is like Messier when it comes to signings; if he is being paid or if you have a nice rack he is all smiles but when neither is happening, he isn't the friendliest person to meet.

I am not saying Marty is at Avery-level douche-ness.  He just never endeared himself to me (as well as several others from what I have learned through the years).

Was it the Elias retirement ceremony where Marty looked like he couldn’t give two sh!ts. I almost expected him to look at his watch.

also bothered me how he never acknowledged Brylin in his HOF speech (again I could be wrong but that’s what I recall)

Edited May 29, 2019 by devlman

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

While I do not subscribe to Marty being the best goalie in NHL history narrative, I won't deny he was very talented and had a really long prime.

I can be alright with Marty the goalie but not so much like Marty the person.

I'm not even so sure he was the best of his era...Hasek was a better puck-stopper, Roy was a bit more clutch (in spite of the fact that he was a bit of a loon and a little too tightly wound at time) and still had something left in the tank when he called it quits.  I've always considered Marty among the best of all time though.  I think those GOAT arguments are really hard to make definitively. 

As for Marty the person, in his book he does seem to acknowledge that he has some flaws and even called himself a model idiot at one point.  I'm not saying that I can't see why some people don't find him to be some swell guy, but more that I'm surprised that even to this day, the full package is as polarizing as it seems to be, given everything.  So many other franchises would've killed for a goalie like him...I'm not knocking our fanbase, but I guess I wonder if some others would have been more "forgiving"? 

[devlman]

4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

 

As for Marty the person, in his book he does seem to acknowledge that he has some flaws and even called himself a model idiot at one point.  I'm not saying that I can't see why some people don't find him to be some swell guy, but more that I'm surprised that even to this day, the full package is as polarizing as it seems to be, given everything.  So many other franchises would've killed for a goalie like him...I'm not knocking our fanbase, but I guess I wonder if some others would have been more "forgiving"? 

I wouldn’t use the word ‘polarizing’. It makes it seem that there are fans that absolutely detest Marty through and through. I just think there are some fans who love the player but aren’t enamored with his persona. They dont hate the guy but just aren’t that into some of his off ice stuff. 

[DevsMan84]

23 minutes ago, devlman said:

Was it the Elias retirement ceremony where Marty looked like he couldn’t give two sh!ts. I almost expected him to look at his watch.

also bothered me how he never acknowledged Brylin in his HOF speech (again I could be wrong but that’s what I recall)

Yup he had the sourpuss look on him at the Elias retirement ceremony.  However, I actually won't go after him about it as there could be a million different reasons why he looked that way.

[DevsMan84]

24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm not even so sure he was the best of his era...Hasek was a better puck-stopper, Roy was a bit more clutch (in spite of the fact that he was a bit of a loon and a little too tightly wound at time) and still had something left in the tank when he called it quits.  I've always considered Marty among the best of all time though.  I think those GOAT arguments are really hard to make definitively. 

As for Marty the person, in his book he does seem to acknowledge that he has some flaws and even called himself a model idiot at one point.  I'm not saying that I can't see why some people don't find him to be some swell guy, but more that I'm surprised that even to this day, the full package is as polarizing as it seems to be, given everything.  So many other franchises would've killed for a goalie like him...I'm not knocking our fanbase, but I guess I wonder if some others would have been more "forgiving"? 

You should see the reactions I get when I tell people Marty is not even in my top 20 favorite Devils players of all time.  They act like I just killed their dog and spit in their child's face.

[NJDfan1711]

33 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I, personally, was rooting for him as a player. Anything else he did, whatever. 

A billion percent this.  Whether he's the best goalie of all time or not, Marty was, more or less, probably the single greatest reason we have each of our 3 Cups, and had 15 or so years or consistent/competitive/sometimes-dominant play, and for that, I'll always be thankful and admire him as a player.  Off the ice and as an individual?  Never loved him or hated him, in part because I don't really care - that goes for him or anyone else.  I don't have him for a next-door neighbor, and he never cut in front of me in line at the grocery store, so to me he's just another person.  Whatever happened in terms of his marital life, and how he conducts himself in everyday situations, that's his business.  

[NJDfan1711]

9 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

You should see the reactions I get when I tell people Marty is not even in my top 20 favorite Devils players of all time.  They act like I just killed their dog and spit in their child's face.

Everyone's entitled to their own list, and I'm sure you have your reasons - and while I wouldn't at all act like you killed my dog, to hear you say he's not in your top 20 is indeed a bit surprising.  

I mean, my favorite player all-time was, and probably still is, Petr Sykora, for a few reasons, but at a certain point my own personal and somewhat random reasons for liking players is eventually trumped by a player's impact and what he meant to the franchise, regardless of whether or not they are actual likable, either by myself or the general public, and as I mentioned above, Marty is probably #1 or #2 in that category, so it definitely seems a little odd to have him on the outside of 20 looking in.

Edited May 29, 2019 by NJDfan1711

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

You should see the reactions I get when I tell people Marty is not even in my top 20 favorite Devils players of all time.  They act like I just killed their dog and spit in their child's face.

He was always way up there for me, but never my absolute "favorite".  All-time it's John MacLean, and I'm not sure what would change that (Dano was up there too).  After Mac it was Rafalski for a while, and then I'd have to say Parise for a stretch.  Right now it's clearly Palms (not that I haven't made that one obvious), followed by Zajac.  Zajac is just one of those players I root hard for to do well...I'd love to see the team make a nice playoff run while he's still here.

[LittleBallofHate]

Jack definitely looks like he'd rather go anywhere but here: 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, MB3 said:

lol imagine if he began coaching the devils, did an absolutely abhorrent job and was solely responsible for breaking a decade-long playoff streak hahaha can you even imagine. 

You have no idea how much it killed me to see Johnny Mac fail so miserably as the Devils' HC.  Compared to everything that came before it, I can't say that it killed what his time as a player meant...I basically almost act like that brutal HC stint never happened.  But man, no arguments...he was woefully unfit to coach an NHL team, and it was very painful to see that reality unfold so conclusively.  Even more sad for me than when he announced during a pregame show that he'd asked Lou to trade him, and that one bummed me out pretty badly.

[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

  I think those GOAT arguments are really hard to make definitively. 

I can only think of one player in any sport you can say that about. Wayne Gretzky. dude was playing a different game than everyone else before, during and after. 

[MadDog2020]

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

I can only think of one player in any sport you can say that about. Wayne Gretzky. dude was playing a different game than everyone else before, during and after. 

I tend to agree, but Gordie Howe was pretty special in the era that he played in too.  Guy put up 103 points as a 40-year-old (in an era not known for being offensive). 

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

 

I can't see Ray not taking him. 

[Rock]

19 hours ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

theres nothing to watch, its just a marketing thing to invite fans to come out to the arena and they are going to try selling them that "membership" package

 

Sorry. I thought it was an open house with the entry draft which I will watch the first 15 minutes!

[mfitz804]

24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I tend to agree, but Gordie Howe was pretty special in the era that he played in too.  Guy put up 103 points as a 40-year-old (in an era not known for being offensive). 

Not saying he wasn't, but if you ask me "who was the greatest hockey player of all time", I'm not going to blink before saying Wayne over Gordie. Complete domination of the game, and made everyone around him better. A lot better. I mean, you could argue that there's at least one guy in the Hall of Fame primarily from playing on his line. 

[DevsMan84]

2 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Everyone's entitled to their own list, and I'm sure you have your reasons - and while I wouldn't at all act like you killed my dog, to hear you say he's not in your top 20 is indeed a bit surprising.  

I mean, my favorite player all-time was, and probably still is, Petr Sykora, for a few reasons, but at a certain point my own personal and somewhat random reasons for liking players is eventually trumped by a player's impact and what he meant to the franchise, regardless of whether or not they are actual likable, either by myself or the general public, and as I mentioned above, Marty is probably #1 or #2 in that category, so it definitely seems a little odd to have him on the outside of 20 looking in.

I would argue that the 3 cups were team efforts more than anything.  In 2000 Marty was great in the finals, but leading up to them he was somewhat shaky.  Likewise I can say we may have a 4th cup up there if it wasn't for Marty in 2001, who was pretty brutal in those finals.  However it is largely moot at that point and I don't want to get into the whole butterfly effect of what would have happened if we did win that cup in 01.

Again, Marty just never endeared himself to me.  He always came off as arrogant and aloof to me and even sometimes nasty when things were not going his way.  It doesn't mean I wish he was never a Devils (like KK), but I am very confident in saying I can easily name 20 Devils right off the top of my head that I just happen to personally like more.  Petr Sykora would definitely be one of them FWIW.

[2ELIAS6]

what Marty book are you guys referring to? beyond the crease?

[Neb00rs]

45 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I can't see Ray not taking him. 

That's the look of someone who was just given a "wink wink" that the Devils are going to draft him.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Neb00rs

[2ELIAS6]

5 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

That's the look of someone who was just given a "wink wink" that the Devils are going to draft him.

lets go! I'm excited to see what this kid is going to do for us. hopefully he comes in and is able to make an immediate impact.