Let's Call a Spade a Spade

[redruM]

 Still though, fvck DeBoer. Larsson getting a chance to find his game has been worth Pete getting fired and then some.

I agree 100%, 3 months ago many of you were saying Larsson was awful and a bust, all of thesudden he is the 2nd coming??  PDB had NO idea how to handle Larsson, atleast his development has started again.

 

I don't trust Lou's vision for this team anymore. In Lou We a Trust was fun for a while but those days are over. I know this board doesn't like hearing that but more of you guys should be pissed off about where our team is and where it's going and not be defending him all the time.

I've been saying this for 2 years!!  the game has passed LL by, he does not get that speed is the MOST IMPORTANT THING in the NHL now, Devs looks like members of AARP v. Mont.  LL needs to go and we need to find someone willing to make tough decisions, I just hope LL trafdes the AARP member ship over the next 2 weeks...

 

The fact that Zubrus is playing over Ruutu is a complete joke.

 

Yes it is, the fact that LL traded for $4.5Mil 4 thliner is just as much of a joke!

I'm thrilled people are now seeing how very much Lou is a part of the problem and not going to be a part of the solution moving forward. Honestly his personnel management has been worse than Deboer. A ridiculous stretch by Cory has hidden how ugly this team is and how much Lou has lost it.

again been saying this for 2 years and most of you laughed at me..

 

LL MUST GO

[vadvlfan]

I'm thrilled people are now seeing how very much Lou is a part of the problem and not going to be a part of the solution moving forward. Honestly his personnel management has been worse than Deboer. A ridiculous stretch by Cory has hidden how ugly this team is and how much Lou has lost it.

I think most of us were like that river in Egypt.  Think this group of fw's needs a catharsis. I've lost confidence in our scouting which again goes back to Lou.  It's obvious we need to go outside the org. as we're hoping Boucher/Matteau will step in. Grasping at straws. If Lou does step down, hopefully Conte & staff go with him. He can't bring his son (Chris) in as GM, he'll be a puppet. 

I forgot, who/what was traded for Ruutu?

[Jerzey]

I think most of us were like that river in Egypt.  Think this group of fw's needs a catharsis. I've lost confidence in our scouting which again goes back to Lou.  It's obvious we need to go outside the org. as we're hoping Boucher/Matteau will step in. Grasping at straws. If Lou does step down, hopefully Conte & staff go with him. He can't bring his son (Chris) in as GM, he'll be a puppet. 

I forgot, who/what was traded for Ruutu?

Loktionov on an expiring contract.

When Lou goes this team needs a new identity. I don't mind putting defense first but when you totally ignore offense there's a problem. I'd like to be built like the current Isles team but I don't think he'd ever draft that much offense.

[TheMazz]

If this team is tanking then what was the purpose of nearly getting us 8 points out of a playoff spot? What was the point of the false hope? What was the point of playing this team out of a decent fvcking draft pick?

 

Was it integrity? Was it "mortality"? What was the purpose there? I'm not saying put forth a losing culture but this is supposed to be the best draft since 2003 and this team was close to playing themselves out of a top ten spot.

 

Are you kidding me?

[DJ Eco]

I quickly realized Lou was the problem when Harrold's minutes started to go up exponentially in January, and we saw him on every power play. Lou needs to go, like yesterday.

[DJ Eco]

If this team is tanking then what was the purpose of nearly getting us 8 points out of a playoff spot? What was the point of the false hope? What was the point of playing this team out of a decent fvcking draft pick?

 

Was it integrity? Was it "mortality"? What was the purpose there? I'm not saying put forth a losing culture but this is supposed to be the best draft since 2003 and this team was close to playing themselves out of a top ten spot.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

To be fair, Lou set the lineup up to fail, and certain people (Tootoo, Bernier in particular) just rose up for the occasion. I mean, c'mon, he had Bernier on the top line, gave him a ton of power play time. For 3 years as a Devil, this guy couldn't score for sh!t before mid-January, and suddenly he's on pace to catch up with Cammalleri (well, not really). And you didn't think Tootoo could generate a few clutch goals and assists. Lou set us up for failure in California and somehow the players played beyond their skill level, plus there was luck too.

 

And also, Schneider has been putting on a Vezina-worthy show since late December. Sure, you could argue that Lou would've put Kinkaid in a bunch of games if he really wanted to tank, but a) that would be too obvious for Lou, and b) Schneider is getting immeasurable experience being "the guy" that will pay dividends later in his career. All other things considered, the decisions that are being made aren't indicative of a GM who wants to win.

Edited February 10, 2015 by DJ Eco

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

If this team is tanking then what was the purpose of nearly getting us 8 points out of a playoff spot? What was the point of the false hope? What was the point of playing this team out of a decent fvcking draft pick?

 

Was it integrity? Was it "mortality"? What was the purpose there? I'm not saying put forth a losing culture but this is supposed to be the best draft since 2003 and this team was close to playing themselves out of a top ten spot.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

I don't think the team is trying to tank.  If you want to do that, put in KK every other game.  Cory gives the team a shot to win when he's in there.

 

It's been gone over many times...the team went 8-2-2 based on a ridiculous amount of luck.  They haven't improved one bit, with few exceptions (mostly Schneider stopping a lot of rubber).  There was no purpose.  Team got lucky.

 

The luck is now evening out, same as it did with Buffalo. 

[NJDevs4978]

I quickly realized Lou was the problem when Harrold's minutes started to go up exponentially in January, and we saw him on every power play. Lou needs to go, like yesterday.

To be fair, Harrold is one of the best six defensemen on the roster atm. Fraser is not, though.

[devilsrule33]

The luck is now evening out, same as it did with Buffalo.

And now they are playing closer to Buffalo's level than any other team in the league.

[TheMazz]

And now they are playing closer to Buffalo's level than any other team in the league.

 

How fast can this team drop? How many teams can pass us realistically and can we still get in Marner/Strome postition? That's all that I care about. Hell, could we get in position for Hanifin?

 

Also, if Hanifin falls to us, we should be drafting him 10 out of 10 times and not look back. Not only BPA but do you think Edmonton would turn down an offer of Hanifin + 2016 first for McDavid/Echiel?

 

I seriously doubt it.

[DJ Eco]

To be fair, Harrold is one of the best six defensemen on the roster atm. Fraser is not, though.

 

Some of Helgeson's worst games were better than watching Harrold every night. If he's not getting flattened by a big hit, he's fanning on a chance to clear. And when he's not altogether missing an easy pass to a forward on the rush, he's sending a slow half-assed 50/50 pass that the forward has to risk injury to position himself to receive instead of the rushing opposing defenseman. I see it 5-6 times a game where a Peter Harrold pass is so awfully paced and placed that it puts our players in jeopardy. I hate Peter Harrold, he embodies everything about the past 3 years that I can't stand about this time. No guts, no skill, and he has no place on this team.

 

A "good" game by Peter Harrold is one where he had no effect on the game either way, and even those are hard to come by now.

Edited February 10, 2015 by DJ Eco

[coldply123]

Harrold and Fraser commit the same kind of mistakes that Gelinas does. Harrold just does them with more confidence and Fraser has what one might call truculence which Lou seems to value.

[Daniel]

The positive is that the coaching change has been really beneficial for Larsson, even if it's merely addition by subtraction.  Like it or not, he's an important part of where the team will be going even if it's a matter of getting a better return for him in a trade. 

 

DeBoer, even going back to Florida, excelled at getting a lot out of rosters lacking in talent.  And when he finally had a good roster, he had a team that cleared 100 points and made it to the finals even with evidently subpar goaltending.  On the whole, he's a very good coach, which is why he'll have a job next season.  Lou must have realized this too.  He also realized that a good coach that helps mediocre rosters overperform is not what this time needs right now, and, in fact, could be be worse for the team in the longterm.  You can call it tanking or whatever, but after Thanksgiving, if there was a plan, it was not to make a concerted push for the playoffs. 

[NJDevs4978]

They've done some weird things you'd question the integrity if this wasn't Lou. I'm just questioning their sanity atm.

If the plan was to play for next year then why Fraser over Gelinas and Hegelson? And why scratch Ryder before you try to build up deadline value?

[Triumph]

The positive is that the coaching change has been really beneficial for Larsson, even if it's merely addition by subtraction.  Like it or not, he's an important part of where the team will be going even if it's a matter of getting a better return for him in a trade. 

 

DeBoer, even going back to Florida, excelled at getting a lot out of rosters lacking in talent.  And when he finally had a good roster, he had a team that cleared 100 points and made it to the finals even with evidently subpar goaltending.  On the whole, he's a very good coach, which is why he'll have a job next season.  Lou must have realized this too.  He also realized that a good coach that helps mediocre rosters overperform is not what this time needs right now, and, in fact, could be be worse for the team in the longterm.  You can call it tanking or whatever, but after Thanksgiving, if there was a plan, it was not to make a concerted push for the playoffs. 

 

I knew people were going to start thinking this team is tanking by how poorly they are playing and how awful the tactics are, but I just don't believe it for more than a second.  There's no evidence to suggest it, no one moment that says, yeah, they're trying to lose.  Case in point: Fraser barely played in the 3rd period last night.  The Devils sat him because they were trying to win that game and Fraser is terrible at offense.

[devilsrule33]

I knew people were going to start thinking this team is tanking by how poorly they are playing and how awful the tactics are, but I just don't believe it for more than a second.  There's no evidence to suggest it, no one moment that says, yeah, they're trying to lose.  Case in point: Fraser barely played in the 3rd period last night.  The Devils sat him because they were trying to win that game and Fraser is terrible at offense.

 

It's funny to think about...

 

Lou: Adam, you know the players, without question you are a great coach, so we need you back in NJ

 

Adam: A head-coaching position?

 

Lou: No, what I have in mind is different, and I spoke with Scotty Stevens. He's in. I want you to run the offense, run the powerplay, you will be like an offensive-coordinator. Scotty will work with the defense to simplify the game on the defensive side. 

 

Adam: And what happens after this season? 

 

Lou: Certainly, we will discuss that at a later date, but you will have head coaching duties, and if you do a good job, there is definitely a chance to be a head coach here or somewhere else.

 

Adam: I know this organization. I know many of these players, I think this is a good spot for me. We can turn this around, and Scotty will be a great coach for the young defensemen.

 

Lou: Great, oh one last thing, when I said if you do a good job, I mean doing a good job at tanking because that's your main responsibility. Sink this ship to the bottom of the ocean, tank commander. 

 

Adam: Great! Sign me up. 

[AEWHistory]

I don't trust Lou's vision for this team anymore. In Lou We a Trust was fun for a while but those days are over. I know this board doesn't like hearing that but more of you guys should be pissed off about where our team is and where it's going and not be defending him all the time.

I've felt this way for about five years. The 2012 run made me think that perhaps I was mitstaken, but in retrospect that was an anomaly for a team that was otherwise declining. I don't think, even now, LL sees that...

[Mike Brown]

No it wasn't.

 

The team was no better offensively under Deboer than it was under the current regime, but it's much better defensively.  Looking at shot totals in a vacuum is dumb.  The Devils have blown far fewer leads than they did under Pete.  The Islanders executed 2 perfect plays that cannot be defended against.  Give credit to the Islanders there.  The Penguins game is the only time we choked away a 3rd period lead.

 

But forget the tangible stuff.  This team has played with more urgency than it ever did under Deboer.  These past 2 games have been a lapse yes but you can't expect good efforts every game.  Also, the goaltending has gotten better because the defense has gotten better.  Deboer's defensive system was constantly leaving our goalies out to dry.  When the defense improved, the goaltending improved with it.

 

Biggest reason this coaching change needed to be done.  Adam Larsson.  Drafted 4th overall, Lou expects him to be the cornerstone to this team's blue line for years to come.  Ever since he got fired, this kid has exploded onto the scene.  When you invest as much into Larsson as Lou has, he damn well better be given every chance to succeed.  Pete has a reputation of killing young players.  He had it in Florida, and it showed here.

 

Last year, the team did a great job under Deboer.  This year the team tuned him out completely.  His time was up.  We had the fewest shots against last year.  The possession numbers last year were great as well.  They also put forth an honest effort last year almost every game.  It's not that he's a bad coach.  He's an excellent hockey coach.  I actually like Deboer a lot.  But a change had to be made.  Period.  And for the most part, the results have been there under this new regime with a couple of bumps in the road.  9-7-2 under Oatestevens overall and 8-4-2 in their last 14.

[mfitz804]

Tanking implies they are losing intentionally. We just suck balls.

[Devilsfan118]

Kinda hope they are just tanking.  Though even in that scenario I'd like Gelinas playing over AHL fodder.

 

PDB wasn't the future, so I'm glad he's gone.  And, I hope and pray, Stevens and Oates aren't the future either.  

If one or both of them are given the position next season I'll be calling for Lou's head.

[Marshall]

You could certainly believe that Oates was here to tank unless his stint in WSH was just as awful. He's an amazingly inept head coach.

[Mike Brown]

BTW, since Deboer got fired, the Devils have averaged 2.44 goals per game. Also since Deboer got fired, the Devils have averaged 2.44 goals against per game.  They've given up 44 goals in 18 games, and they've scored 44 goals in 18 games.  

 

So they're better both offensively and defensively since DeBoer got fired.  Only thing that is down, is the shots for.  Only 20 shots per game since Deboer got fired.  We're also averaging 30.5 shots against since Deboer got fired which is roughly the same when Deboer was here.

 

UNDER DEBOER

Record: 12-17-7

GF / GM: 2.08

GA / GM: 2.72

SF / GM: Around 24 or 25 (too lazy to calculate)

SA / GM: Around 30 (too lazy to calculate)

 

UNDER STEVEN, OATES, AND LOU

Record: 9-7-2

GF / GM: 2.44

GA / GM: 2.44

SF / GM: 20

SA / GM: 30.5

 

It's pretty clear we're better under this new coaching regime than under Deboer.  That's just the tangible stuff.  Intangibly, we're even more better.

[DevsMan84]

Funny how you got "lazy" when calculating the shots for and against under DeBoer.  Me thinks the real numbers just didn't fit your hatred of PDB narrative.

Edited February 10, 2015 by DevsMan84

[Devilsfan118]

Funny how you got "lazy" when calculating the shots for and against under DeBoer.  Me thinks the real numbers just didn't fit your hatred of PDB narrative.

 

Talk about cherry picking statistics, I mean give us a break MB.

 

GF / GA taken in a vaccuum mean nothing.  

You really want to evaluate this?  You should take Cory's season-average SV% prior to the coaching change, and apply it to the games since the coaching change.  Then take that GA / game and compare.  He's been playing out of his mind since the change.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Devilsfan118

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Talk about cherry picking statistics, I mean give us a break MB.

 

GF / GA taken in a vaccuum mean nothing.  

You really want to evaluate this?  You should take Cory's season-average SV% prior to the coaching change, and apply it to the games since the coaching change.  Then take that GA / game and compare.  He's been playing out of his mind since the change.

 

The above...thank you!

 

Cory has a .939 save% since the coaching change.  Gee MB, ya think that might have just a little something to do with the lower GAA and better record?

 

And at the other end:  AGAIN, over the 8-2-2 burst, the Devils were shooting about 14% as a team, despite not exactly being blessed with great shooters.  Even with things normalizing in the last two games, the opposing save% (including empty-netters) is still a very lowly .866 over the last 14 GP.  No way that continues. 

 

Since the three-headed monster (THM) took over, the Devils have been outshot 549-360.  That's a fvcking CHASM, and it's trending the wrong way...in the THM's first six games, the Devils were outshot 151-130...not too bad.  Since, it's 398-230...or 33.2-19.1 per game over that 12-game period.  That's friggin' expansion-team territory.

 

So MB, outside of you stating something as though it's an incontrovertible fact yet again, how exactly are the Devils any better than they were when PDB was coaching?  Please explain.   

Edited February 10, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976