Adam Larsson traded to EDM for Taylor Hall

[SterioDesign]

41 minutes ago, njbuff said:

I still rate the Neal Broten trade as the best in team history only because of the short term magnitude of the trade, but the Taylor Hall trade might be the biggest steal of a lifetime.

And if Hischier develops into that 40-goal player he looks to be....... that will only add years to Hall’s career with his passing ability.

Hall is an amazing building block for this team and I will stunned if the Devils don’t become a serious Cup contender very very shortly.

2

personally i think the Tom Kurvers might be the biggest trade in Devils history (for now)

[moustic]

4 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

personally i think the Tom Kurvers might be the biggest trade in Devils history (for now)

[bobilly45]

On 6/29/2016 at 3:38 PM, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

I know I am in the minority but I am slightly disappointed.  

Wonder if your thoughts changed on this trade

[Chuck the Duck]

11 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

personally i think the Tom Kurvers might be the biggest trade in Devils history (for now)

That was, hands down, the best trade in Devils history.  If you mention it to a real Leafs fan that has a clue, they're still pissed about it.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

8 hours ago, bobilly45 said:

Wonder if your thoughts changed on this trade

Covered this a while ago. Answer is yes. Would still have liked to have kept Larsson if that was an option. But it wasn't. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

22 hours ago, Chuck the Duck said:

That was, hands down, the best trade in Devils history.  If you mention it to a real Leafs fan that has a clue, they're still pissed about it.

While that deal clearly had "rotten potential" written all over it from the moment it was made (from a Leafs standpoint of course), it really wasn't that bad initially...Kurvers turned in a fine first season as a Leaf, and the Leafs actually had a pretty good season in 1989-90...they went 38-38-4 that year and scored 337 goals, and if Al Iafrate hadn't gotten injured towards the end of the season, that record might have been a little better...though one could argue outside of what seemed like a flukish 15-5-1 run that came around midseason, that the Leafs really weren't anything special (especially on defense and in goal).

I think the big mistake the Leafs made (maybe more than the Kurvers deal) was the fact that they really didn't do much in the offseason prior to the 1990-91 season to improve where sorely needed...I think that they thought they were going to keep scoring plenty of goals, when it was clear that a lot of players on that team were enjoying career years, or at the very least performing above expectations...the Leafs had scored 273 goals and 259 goals the previous two seasons, with many of the same faces in the mix...while giving up 345 and 342 goals, and they gave up 359 goals in 1989-90...the fact that the Leafs needed to score 337 goals just to be a .500 teams said plenty, but their weaknesses weren't addressed.  There were also guys like Leeman (more on him in a bit) whose value was never going to be higher than it was that offseason.  And it didn't help of course that Daniel Marois (who'd been productive his first two NHL seasons) completely and suddenly vanished.

Apparently part of what really killed the 1990-91 Leafs (along with a 0-6-1 and 4-21-1 start that the team couldn't possibly recover from) was that Leeman started dating Iafrate's ex-wife, which really led to insane tension in the lockerroom...it got to Iafrate so much that he was dealt to the Caps in midseason.  And with the Leafs suddenly faced with the real possibility of finishing with the worst record overall and having to watch as the Devils selected Lindros, they had to make some stabilization trades that really weren't terribly good, just to finish not-bad-enough-to-be-worst.  So though the Kurvers deal was neither smart nor terribly good, it was a lot of other factors that led to it being even worse than it ever should have been, in fairness.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[MadDog2020]

While that deal clearly had "rotten potential" written all over it from the moment it was made, it really wasn't that bad initially...Kurvers turned in a fine first season as a Leaf, and the Leafs actually had a pretty good season in 1989-90...they went 38-38-4 that year and scored 337 goals, and if Al Iafrate hadn't gotten injured towards the end of the season, that record might have been a little better...though one could argue outside of what seemed like a flukish 15-5-1 run that came around midseason, that the Leafs really weren't anything special (especially on defense and in goal).
I think the big mistake the Leafs made (maybe more than the Kurvers deal) was the fact that they really didn't do much in the offseason prior to the 1990-91 season to improve where sorely needed...I think that they thought they were going to keep scoring plenty of goals, when it was clear that a lot of players on that team were enjoying career years, or at the very least performing above expectations...the Leafs had scored 273 goals and 259 goals the previous two seasons, with many of the same faces in the mix...while giving up 345 and 342 goals, and they gave up 359 goals in 1989-90...the fact that the Leafs needed to score 337 goals just to be a .500 teams said plenty, but their weaknesses weren't addressed.  There were also guys like Leeman (more on him in a bit) whose value was never going to be higher than it was that offseason.  And it didn't help of course that Daniel Marois (who'd been productive his first two NHL seasons) completely and suddenly vanished.
Apparently part of what really killed the 1990-91 Leafs (along with a 0-6-1 and 4-21-1 start that the team couldn't possibly recover from) was that Leeman started dating Iafrate's ex-wife, which really led to insane tension in the lockerroom...it got to Iafrate so much that he was dealt to the Caps in midseason.  And with the Leafs suddenly faced with the real possibility of finishing with the worst record overall and having to watch as the Devils selected Lindros, they had to make some stabilization trades that really weren't terribly good, just to finish not-bad-enough-to-be-worst.  So though the Kurvers deal was neither smart nor terribly good, it was a lot of other factors that led to it being even worse than it ever should have been, in fairness.

So in the end, we have Gary Leeman to thank for being able to draft Scott Niedermayer. Thanks Gary. [emoji106][emoji14]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chuck the Duck]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

While that deal clearly had "rotten potential" written all over it from the moment it was made (from a Leafs standpoint of course), it really wasn't that bad initially...Kurvers turned in a fine first season as a Leaf, and the Leafs actually had a pretty good season in 1989-90...they went 38-38-4 that year and scored 337 goals, and if Al Iafrate hadn't gotten injured towards the end of the season, that record might have been a little better...though one could argue outside of what seemed like a flukish 15-5-1 run that came around midseason, that the Leafs really weren't anything special (especially on defense and in goal).

I think the big mistake the Leafs made (maybe more than the Kurvers deal) was the fact that they really didn't do much in the offseason prior to the 1990-91 season to improve where sorely needed...I think that they thought they were going to keep scoring plenty of goals, when it was clear that a lot of players on that team were enjoying career years, or at the very least performing above expectations...the Leafs had scored 273 goals and 259 goals the previous two seasons, with many of the same faces in the mix...while giving up 345 and 342 goals, and they gave up 359 goals in 1989-90...the fact that the Leafs needed to score 337 goals just to be a .500 teams said plenty, but their weaknesses weren't addressed.  There were also guys like Leeman (more on him in a bit) whose value was never going to be higher than it was that offseason.  And it didn't help of course that Daniel Marois (who'd been productive his first two NHL seasons) completely and suddenly vanished.

Apparently part of what really killed the 1990-91 Leafs (along with a 0-6-1 and 4-21-1 start that the team couldn't possibly recover from) was that Leeman started dating Iafrate's ex-wife, which really led to insane tension in the lockerroom...it got to Iafrate so much that he was dealt to the Caps in midseason.  And with the Leafs suddenly faced with the real possibility of finishing with the worst record overall and having to watch as the Devils selected Lindros, they had to make some stabilization trades that really weren't terribly good, just to finish not-bad-enough-to-be-worst.  So though the Kurvers deal was neither smart nor terribly good, it was a lot of other factors that led to it being even worse than it ever should have been, in fairness.

That's an amazing backstory, and I never knew anything about Leeman and Iafrate (who's shot was almost as ridiculous as his hockey flow).  I was talking strictly from the Devils perspective and with hindsight being 20/20.   At the time, I remember Kurvers was a good defenseman that put up points, and I was a little bummed they traded him.  But with how everything turned out in the end, and with what Niedermayer ultimately became for us (I still think he was underrated during his time here), I have a hard time coming up with a trade that had as much impact or worked out better for this franchise.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, Chuck the Duck said:

That's an amazing backstory, and I never knew anything about Leeman and Iafrate (who's shot was almost as ridiculous as his hockey flow).  I was talking strictly from the Devils perspective and with hindsight being 20/20.   At the time, I remember Kurvers was a good defenseman that put up points, and I was a little bummed they traded him.  But with how everything turned out in the end, and with what Niedermayer ultimately became for us (I still think he was underrated during his time here), I have a hard time coming up with a trade that had as much impact or worked out better for this franchise.

There's even more to it...supposedly that 1989-90 Leaf team wasn't a closely-knit bunch to begin with, and the lines disliked each other so much that they were trying to outdo each other, in a mostly contentious kind of way.  The late John Kordic (who would later die of a drug overdose, at just 27 years old...his story was frightening and can be found online) was a buddy of Iafrate's, and let's just say he took matters into his own hands when it came to sticking up for his friend in dealing with Leeman.  The organization was also still recovering from the end of the Harold Ballard era, which is considered to be by far the darkest in Leafs history...part of the problem during the Ballard era was that fans kept showing up no matter what (still selling out every game), so he felt no great need to put any more money into the on-ice product that he had to...salaries hadn't truly exploded yet, but Ballard was a notorious penny-pincher and borderline certifiable to boot...in the mid-70s or thereabouts, the NHL mandated that home uniforms have the player's name shown on the back.  Ballard was so concerned that fans would stop buying programs if the players were easily identified on-ice that he actually had the names sewn on to the jerseys IN THE SAME COLOR (white on white), as to make them as unreadable as possible.  The league was not amused and came down hard on Ballard, who quickly buckled and had the players' names sewn on properly. 

Oh for sure, the Kurvers for the Leafs' 1991 first-rounder was one of the most fruitful deals ever for the Devils, and the lot of unfortunate circumstances in Toronto (obviously some of which was their down doing) helped greatly...and it's been brought up, but San Jose coming into the league made it even better, because supposedly Pat Falloon was #2 on just about EVERYONE'S draft boards.  The Devils would've picked 2nd if not for San Jose (who was awarded the second pick). 

[Jimmy Leeds]

I wonder if Lou would have picked Falloon.  I doubt it

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/08/24/127024/death-of-a-goon-cocaine-steroids-and-alcohol-contributed-to-the-fall-of-hockeys-john-kordic

 

SI story from '92 on Kordic

[mfitz804]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

I wonder if Lou would have picked Falloon.  I doubt it

I remember being pissed when San Jose was awarded the second pick. You mean if we don’t get the first pick, we only get the THIRD????

Worked out well. 

[MadDog2020]

Bobby Mac with the commemoration lmfao:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MadDog2020]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/news/june-29-2016-nhl-trades-taylor-hall-adam-larsson-trade-pk-subban-shea-weber-contract-steven-stamkos/14y51ula657vo1lrx35wgdq0i3

 

 

Great read.

 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

On 28/06/2018 at 2:38 AM, Jimmy Leeds said:

I wonder if Lou would have picked Falloon.  I doubt it

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/08/24/127024/death-of-a-goon-cocaine-steroids-and-alcohol-contributed-to-the-fall-of-hockeys-john-kordic

 

SI story from '92 on Kordic

Jesus, that's horrific. 

[Lateralous]

On 6/27/2018 at 9:38 PM, Jimmy Leeds said:

I wonder if Lou would have picked Falloon.  I doubt it

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/08/24/127024/death-of-a-goon-cocaine-steroids-and-alcohol-contributed-to-the-fall-of-hockeys-john-kordic

 

SI story from '92 on Kordic

I distinctly remember this exact article.  Thanks for posting it.   This was back before the internet and my grandfather always made sure I had a subscription to SI.  They would pile up and occasionally you would need to purge, so if there was a really interesting article I would cut it out and keep in a folder.    Of the ones I can remember that I kept, it was this article, Charles Thompson (Oklahoma QB arrest), Lloyd Daniels, Roy Tarpley (Mavericks).   

 

[SterioDesign]

So i assume Tavares contract will be the benchmark for Hall's new contract? 

2 former 1st overall picks producing around 85-95 pts. 

11m for 7 years or maybe something like... 10.5 for 8. Something along those numbers 

Edited July 3, 2018 by SterioDesign

[Chuck the Duck]

26 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

So i assume Tavares contract will be the benchmark for Hall's new contract? 

2 former 1st overall picks producing around 85-95 pts. 

11m for 7 years or maybe something like... 10.5 for 8. Something along those numbers 

Probably.  Tavares has put up those numbers more consistently, and is a center, which gives him more value.  But he left money on the table to go to Toronto, so I'm assuming Hall's looking at getting Tavares money which I am fine with. 

[mfitz804]

25 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

So i assume Tavares contract will be the benchmark for Hall's new contract? 

2 former 1st overall picks producing around 85-95 pts. 

11m for 7 years or maybe something like... 10.5 for 8. Something along those numbers 

For now, yes. Let's not forget there's two years before Hall would be a free agent (1 year before extension, let's lock that sh!t down next year Ray). Who knows what kind of ridiculous deals will be passed out in that time that may raise the bar even further. 

[SterioDesign]

32 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

For now, yes. Let's not forget there's two years before Hall would be a free agent (1 year before extension, let's lock that sh!t down next year Ray). Who knows what kind of ridiculous deals will be passed out in that time that may raise the bar even further. 

yeah plus the cap keep rising so salaries keep rising too. The sooner the better

[Devilsfan118]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

For now, yes. Let's not forget there's two years before Hall would be a free agent (1 year before extension, let's lock that sh!t down next year Ray). Who knows what kind of ridiculous deals will be passed out in that time that may raise the bar even further. 

With the way the NHL's going, I hope Hall is signed before the start of the 2019-2020 season. Lock him up to 11x8 or whatever.

If he's not, you almost have to start having discussions about trading him (take Panarin's situation right now, for example).

Simply cannot risk losing a serious asset like Tavares/Hall.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Devilsfan118

[SterioDesign]

11 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

With the way the NHL's going, I hope Hall is signed before the start of the 2019-2020 season. Lock him up to 11x8 or whatever.

If he's not, you almost have to start having discussions about trading him (take Panarin's situation right now, for example).

Simply cannot risk losing a serious asset like Tavares/Hall.

We don't have to worry about that at all with Shero. He's proven over and over that he's handling upcoming free agents the right way. I can't even think of a big FA walking on him

I always go back to how he dealt with Letang and Staal as examples. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by SterioDesign

[Devilsfan118]

15 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

We don't have to worry about that at all with Shero. He's proven over and over that he's handling upcoming free agents the right way. I can't even think of a big FA walking on him

I always go back to how he dealt with Letang and Staal as examples. 

Good points.

I think I still have 'PTSD' from Nieds and Parise leaving.  Watching JT essentially fvck over the Isles is giving me flashbacks.

[Devs3cups]

14 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

We don't have to worry about that at all with Shero. He's proven over and over that he's handling upcoming free agents the right way. I can't even think of a big FA walking on him

I always go back to how he dealt with Letang and Staal as examples. 

I also firmly believe Hall likes it in NJ. Shero will give him his money. We're up and coming and I'm positive Hall notices. No doubt in my mind he tries to sign him to an extension before the end of the 2019-2020 season. 

[Devs3cups]

Just now, Devilsfan118 said:

Good points.

I think I still have 'PTSD' from Nieds and Parise leaving.  Watching JT essentially fvck over the Isles is giving me flashbacks.

Parise was different though. Honestly Lou has never been real good with keeping impact free agents and imo he handled the Zach situation really poorly. Shero seems to be better at it and I'm confident Hall is comfortable and likes it here. We'll see but I trust Shero will get it done. 

[SterioDesign]

8 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Good points.

I think I still have 'PTSD' from Nieds and Parise leaving.  Watching JT essentially fvck over the Isles is giving me flashbacks.

Well if Lou was still here i'd be sharing that PTSD with you and it would be 100% justified to be stressed based on his track record. But Shero gave us absolutely no reasons to be worried. Some will remember I was actually praising him about how he was handling free agents way before he got here. I'm 110% confident in him.

He also lost a lot more than Parise and Nieds... Rafalski, Gomez, Holik, Gionta, etc etc

Edited July 3, 2018 by SterioDesign