2021 Seattle Expansion Draft

[MadDog2020]

32 minutes ago, Mitico12 said:

Looking at it straight-up this way, yes, seems like an unfair advantage for Vegas.  But, let's break it down -  each club benefited financially from Vegas' (and now Seattle's) entry into the league - this to the tune of like $20 million per team in distributed funds derived from the entry fees paid.

So - if you're Vegas or Seattle - you're like..."Screw that - I paid to have these expansion rules favor my team - so I'm not feeling sorry for anyone" $600 million is a lot of money to enter a team into competition.  That's just a fee to enter the league.  That's not talking about brick and mortar, logistical, human resource costs - which can drive that amount up another 50%.

Imagine paying the $600 million expansion fee, and being as dreary as the Senators or Sharks in their expansion years.  Not happening. 

It benefits the league having a competitive team right off the bat, and it also helps guarantee a generous and quicker return-on-investment to the ownership group of the new franchise.

It's all calculated my friends.

They can still sacrifice one player from their roster. I don’t give a fvck how much they paid to enter the league. No one had a gun to anyone’s head.

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

They can still sacrifice one player from their roster. I don’t give a fvck how much they paid to enter the league. No one had a gun to anyone’s head.

Agreed. The expansion fee gets you into the league. That’s all that should get you. It shouldn’t buy you better treatment years later like Vegas is getting now.

[aylbert]

35 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed. The expansion fee gets you into the league. That’s all that should get you. It shouldn’t buy you better treatment years later like Vegas is getting now.

It was part of their expansion agreement.     They also don't get a cut of the expansion fee ($650mm); which is ~21.6mm.   But yea, it's also been reported several GMs are pissed about it too, and that teams are not allowed to exploit Vegas's status to park players, etc (https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1730061)

Edited May 19, 2021 by aylbert

[mfitz804]

16 minutes ago, aylbert said:

It was part of their expansion agreement.     They also don't get a cut of the expansion fee ($650mm); which is ~21.6mm.   But yea, it's also been reported several GMs are pissed about it too, and that teams are not allowed to exploit Vegas's status to park players, etc (https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1730061)

It may be part of the agreement, that only means they are entitled to it, not that it isn’t stupid. 

[SterioDesign]

9 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

They can still sacrifice one player from their roster. I don’t give a fvck how much they paid to enter the league. No one had a gun to anyone’s head.

yeah we're just talking about sacrificing one player on their roster. It doesn't have anything to do with fees or wtv

[NJDfan1711]

I don't love the idea of Vegas not having a player scalped from their team, but the fact that they're only 3-4 years into their existence and there already happens to be another expansion taking place, I can understand the reasons why they would be exempt.  Expansion drafts are pretty rare (I hope the league caps itself at 32 teams for good), and this probably isn't going to happen again anytime soon, so in the grand scheme of things it isn't a big deal.  As others have mentioned, it's essentially a sacrifice for the greater good, in that Vegas doing well benefits most, if not all, other teams in the league.  Maybe not in terms of winning a Cup, but in other ways.  

[Rock]

 The next time the  NHL decides to expand (hopefully never) it brings in 2 teams together. So it doesn't have 1 team pick all the good available players.  I believe this is one of the reasons Vegas is so successful.  I think the other is the Vegas Flu. When teams go into Vegas for a few days i'm sure some of the guys go gambling. At least the first year when Vegas had an outstanding home record.😎

[point]

I still am at a loss as to why there is no NHL franchise in Houston. It's a top 5 in population. Must be enough peo0le who have migrated from the north to support ice hockey. For sure a better option than Arizona ever was. And a natural rivalry with Dallas.

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, point said:

I still am at a loss as to why there is no NHL franchise in Houston. It's a top 5 in population. Must be enough peo0le who have migrated from the north to support ice hockey. For sure a better option than Arizona ever was. And a natural rivalry with Dallas.

You’re not wrong, that seems like it’d be a good place for a franchise.

[Lateralous]

9 minutes ago, point said:

I still am at a loss as to why there is no NHL franchise in Houston. It's a top 5 in population. Must be enough peo0le who have migrated from the north to support ice hockey. For sure a better option than Arizona ever was. And a natural rivalry with Dallas.

I think they’ve flirted with the Rockets owner in the past.  He’s really the only current option since he also controls the arena.  Anyone else would need to fork over  a billion between expansion fee and an arena just to be the smallest fish in a big pond.  

I would think the NHL might be better served to be the first major pro sports team in Austin.   

 

   

[mfitz804]

All I know is that if there is another Texas team, they should be called the Texas Brisket and there’s really no other way. 

[MadDog2020]

18 minutes ago, point said:

I still am at a loss as to why there is no NHL franchise in Houston. It's a top 5 in population. Must be enough peo0le who have migrated from the north to support ice hockey. For sure a better option than Arizona ever was. And a natural rivalry with Dallas.

I still think if Arizona ever ends up moving, it’ll be to Houston.

[DevsMan84]

I personally think Tilman Fertitta is interested in an NHL team, but not that expansion fee.  I still think if there was a team that was up for sale that was ripe for moving, he would be at the top of the list to swoop in and buy the team to move it to Houston.

I also think KC is a good option for a franchise as well.  Solid sports market, they have a newish arena, etc.  I think if the Canadian dollar was a little better Quebec would be on the table as well.  I think Hartford is a long shot as the XL Center is out-dated and I doubt the voters there would approve funding for a new arena.  I also think the NHL is not interested in going into a market that is as small as Hartford and being within a few hours drive of 4 other franchises.

[MadDog2020]

2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I personally think Tilman Fertitta is interested in an NHL team, but not that expansion fee.

All I can think of is that commercial for the Golden Nugget that aired on the games all year where Fertitta gives the guy the check for a million dollars. ‘Well NHL, I really need this $600 million, but I’m happy to give it to ya’! 🤣

[RunninWithTheDevil]

21 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I personally think Tilman Fertitta is interested in an NHL team, but not that expansion fee.  I still think if there was a team that was up for sale that was ripe for moving, he would be at the top of the list to swoop in and buy the team to move it to Houston.

I also think KC is a good option for a franchise as well.  Solid sports market, they have a newish arena, etc.  I think if the Canadian dollar was a little better Quebec would be on the table as well.  I think Hartford is a long shot as the XL Center is out-dated and I doubt the voters there would approve funding for a new arena.  I also think the NHL is not interested in going into a market that is as small as Hartford and being within a few hours drive of 4 other franchises.

Now that you mentioned it I honestly think Kansas City is an even better idea than Houston

[Lateralous]

5 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Now that you mentioned it I honestly think Kansas City is an even better idea than Houston

Yeah, they have a nice setup with the arena downtown and no NBA team to compete with.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

15 hours ago, Lateralous said:

Yeah, they have a nice setup with the arena downtown and no NBA team to compete with.  

On a side note...the building that the KC Scouts used to play in (Kemper Arena) was repurposed as a youth and adult sports facility, back in 2018...kinda weird seeing all of those basketball courts where one full court and a hockey rink once stood, but looks like they did a nice job...always nice to see an old building get a second life:

Former Kemper Arena reopens as Hy-Vee Arena with some big changes | The Kansas City Star 

Doubly amazing when one considers the roof collapse that happened in 1979...fortunately no event was going on at the time, so there were no casualties:

[DevsMan84]

The mid 70's through early 80's were a pretty bad time for engineering in the US.  You had that roof collapse, the complete roof collapse a year or two later for the Hartford Civic Center, the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse in KC, and the near-disaster of the Citigroup Center in NYC as just a few examples.  The reasons were all over the place from early reliance on computer modeling, to faulty calculations made in change orders during construction, to sub-standard construction to literally forgetting to calculate wind strength when hitting the building at an angle (aka quartering winds), etc.

Edited May 27, 2021 by DevsMan84

[Lateralous]

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

On a side note...the building that the KC Scouts used to play in (Kemper Arena) was repurposed as a youth and adult sports facility, back in 2018...kinda weird seeing all of those basketball courts where one full court and a hockey rink once stood, but looks like they did a nice job...always nice to see an old building get a second life:

Former Kemper Arena reopens as Hy-Vee Arena with some big changes | The Kansas City Star 

Doubly amazing when one considers the roof collapse that happened in 1979...fortunately no event was going on at the time, so there were no casualties:

That is pretty cool.   

 

Have you ever seen what they did with Maple Leafs Gardens?   Ryerson college renovated it into an athletic center (and grocery store) and their rink is on the top floor and utilizes the original high roof 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 hours ago, Lateralous said:

That is pretty cool.   

 

Have you ever seen what they did with Maple Leafs Gardens?   Ryerson college renovated it into an athletic center (and grocery store) and their rink is on the top floor and utilizes the original high roof 

Looks like they did something similar at Kemper...basically raised the playing surface to the bottom of the upper deck.  Yeah I knew that Maple Leaf Gardens was also renovated, but never looked up any pics of the results.  Love that there’s still a rink on the premises.

@DM84 yeah 70s wasn’t a great time for a lot of things American engineering, lol.  Cars didn’t fare much better.  I didn’t know about the Hartford Civic Center roof collapse...yikes.  I do know that Kemper’s design was considered very cutting-edge for that time...the exterior had a very futuristic look for the 70s.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[DevsMan84]

49 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Looks like they something similar at Kemper...basically raised the playing surface to the bottom of the upper deck.  Yeah I knew that Maple Leaf Gardens was also renovated, but never looked up any pics of the results.  Love that there’s still a rink on the premises.

@DM84 yeah 70s wasn’t a great time for a lot of things American engineering, lol.  Cars didn’t fare much better.  I didn’t know about the Hartford Civic Center roof collapse...yikes.  I do know that Keller’s design was considered very cutting-edge for that time...the exterior had a very futuristic look for the 70s.

Yeah the Hartford one was bad.  I believe the cause of that one was faulty calculations while using early computer modeling.

There was also the partial roof collapse at the Spectrum in the 70's I believe and IIRC there was a partial roof collapse at the Igloo in either the late 60's or early 70's.

[NJDfan1711]

People being pissed about Vegas not losing one player on their team is fvcking stupid.  They're literally bent that an expansion team happened to defy odds and actually be good right off the bat.  How many times have expansion teams sucked pure fvcking ass right from the get-go?  Early 90s Sharks, Panthers, Senators, Lightning... late 90s/00s Wild, Thrashers, Predators.  Instead of thinking that Vegas is actually a decent team only because of this one advantage, maybe give them some kudos and think that perhaps it literally could actually have been their coaching, their playing style, their practices, their chemistry?  I mean Jesus fvcking Christ, you sound like the jealous kid in school who thinks that the kid who actually studied for his test somehow lucked his way to an A.  Stop being bitter and naïve. They earned it.  Despite what you think, they earned it.

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

People being pissed about Vegas not losing one player on their team is fvcking stupid.  They're literally bent that an expansion team happened to defy odds and actually be good right off the bat.  How many times have expansion teams sucked pure fvcking ass right from the get-go?  Early 90s Sharks, Panthers, Senators, Lightning... late 90s/00s Wild, Thrashers, Predators.  Instead of thinking that Vegas is actually a decent team only because of this one advantage, maybe give them some kudos and think that perhaps it literally could actually have been their coaching, their playing style, their practices, their chemistry?  I mean Jesus fvcking Christ, you sound like the jealous kid in school who thinks that the kid who actually studied for his test somehow lucked his way to an A.  Stop being bitter and naïve. They earned it.  Despite what you think, they earned it.

How did they earn it? By paying a franchise fee? I don’t think teams should be able to buy favorable treatment from the league. 

[NJDfan1711]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

How did they earn it? By paying a franchise fee? I don’t think teams should be able to buy favorable treatment from the league. 

They earned it by being a decent team with skillful players, good coaching, and actually knowing how to play hockey and run a team.  What did the franchise fee get them?  Aside from not having to give up a player a few months from now?  It got them entry into the league.  It didn't magically make them the first or second best team in the Western Conference.  They did that on their own.

[NJDfan1711]

Just now, NJDfan1711 said:

They earned it by being a decent team with skillful players, good coaching, and actually knowing how to play hockey and run a team.  What did the franchise fee get them?  Aside from not having to give up a player a few months from now?  It got them entry into the league.  It didn't magically make them the first or second best team in the Western Conference.  They did that on their own.

Also, they didn't "buy favorable treatment" - that statement implies that they slipped an extra $20 bill to someone under the table in exchange for some otherwise unattainable advantage.  They literally paid the franchise fee that was mandated to them, and every other team that wants or considers entry into the league.  I don't see how you can be pissed a team for playing by the rules.