GDT: Devils vs Sharkfin Soup - 1 Dec @ 7pm

[NJDevils1214]

2 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Definitely issues beyond goaltending - but .706 Sv% is as far as you need to go on this one.

It's almost incomprehensible 

I wouldn't play the best goalie in the league back to back if he had to make 50 saves the night before. I don't get that. At all.

[RizzMB30]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

The ratio of posts from certain people after a bad loss compared to when they win really is something else. 

It's just human nature.

[smelly]

43 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

The ratio of posts from certain people after a bad loss compared to when they win really is something else. 

Make an irrelevant post that doesn't dispute the point because you can't without saying you are making an irrelevant post that doesn't dispute the point because you can't.

Ever think that that is because I invest tens of thousands in season tickets every year and I am frustrated that they refuse to fix a problem that was obvious in April?

Edited December 2, 2023 by smelly

[smelly]

3 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

No, you actually didn’t say that at all.  You literally just posted the comment less than 5 minutes ago.  Go re-read it.  

That is EXACTLY what baked in means, brother,  Sorry I had to spell it out for you.

[Devilsfan118]

4 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I wouldn't play the best goalie in the league back to back if he had to make 50 saves the night before. I don't get that. At all.

100% agreed. 

[pumpkin cutter]

i just wanna know which new poster is mfitz.

[Rob_Ottawa]

Playing Schmid was insane. We still outshot sj 3:1. Id chalk this one up to back to back scheduling loss.

[slasher72]

12 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

Gotta be honest here too, with all the hype of him coming in I honestly thought timo was going to be more than what he is. He’s definitely good at certain things, fills a void for a more physical role.. but Iam far from convinced he was the guy we should’ve gave that haul up for and locked down. Starting to realize he wasn’t the answer I think we thought he was. With him you have to realize yes he had like 40 goals last year on a sh!t team but he was the go to guy. Now he’s on what’s supposed to be a deep talented team, he’s not the go to guy anymore and he’s not doing enough for that haul and salary. 

Without a doubt. I even wonder if he's happy here, being just one of many high caliber players vs being the face of a franchise. I think a lot of fans got excited with the prospect of having both Meier and Hischier on the same team, two Swiss stars playing together and putting up ridiculous numbers, but it hasn't materialized.

Meier looks like a shell of his SJ self. And the same could obviously be said of Palat. 

It'd be nice also to see Bratt step in and take over a game every now and then but I don't think he's that type of player. 

[Devilsfan118]

3 minutes ago, pumpkin cutter said:

i just wanna know which new poster is mfitz.

[slasher72]

The team is one superstar (Jack), some good supporting players, awful goaltending, bad defense, and poor to mediocre coaching. We're basically Edmonton and you're not winning much with that hand. 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by slasher72

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Damn…long, quiet ride home.  As disappointing of a loss as there’s been since the start of last season, really.

The guy who has to be most disappointed is Fitz, because he clearly believed he had a solid enough goaltending tandem in VV and Schmid…solid enough to decide that Blackwood had become expendable, and enough to tie up his cap space in other areas (like Timo, Bratt, etc).  I don’t think he truly thought that he’d have to explore scouring the NHL for someone else…I think he thought his guys were already here, and on cap-friendly deals to boot.

Yeah, cap room will open up now that Dougie’s on LTIR…but not like he won’t ever be back on the payroll.  Then what?

Feel for Fitz…a lot has not gone to plan this year so far.  Most of the D has been up and down, the team at times has looked rather disorganized and unprepared…if Jack isn’t fully or near-fully on his game, the guys who should be stepping up more aren’t doing it enough.  There’s some positives here and there (Toffoli, Luke, Holtz), but injuries too.  Been a very strange start to this season.

[smelly]

26 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Damn…long, quiet ride home.  As disappointing of a loss as there’s been since the start of last season, really.

The guy who has to be most disappointed is Fitz, because he clearly believed he had a solid enough goaltending tandem in VV and Schmid…solid enough to decide that Blackwood had become expendable, and enough to tie up his cap space in other areas (like Timo, Bratt, etc).  I don’t think he truly thought that he’d have to explore scouring the NHL for someone else…I think he thought his guys were already here, and on cap-friendly deals to boot.

Yeah, cap room will open up now that Dougie’s on LTIR…but not like he won’t ever be back on the payroll.  Then what?

Feel for Fitz…a lot has not gone to plan this year so far.  Most of the D has been up and down, the team at times has looked rather disorganized and unprepared…if Jack isn’t fully or near-fully on his game, the guys who should be stepping up more aren’t doing it enough.  There’s some positives here and there (Toffoli, Luke, Holtz), but injuries too.  Been a very strange start to this season.

He doesn’t need to make room for Dougie until next September now. And the cap will be going up also. Plenty of time to figure that all out.  For all we know Nemec will perform to a level that will allow them to move on from Dougie sooner than later (even with retention it would open up more room for other things). 
 

The issue on the table is that this season is predictably bleeding out from the gaping wound that is the Devils crease. 
 

He will assuredly address that now. Heck, I have it on good authority (and so apparently do a lot of the hockey press) he’s been shopping for months already. He knew that he needed an upgrade to finish the build. That’s why he was poking around CH. That’s why he’s sniffing around Markstrom and others now. He just thought his current tandem would buy him time. Not so much. All they’ve done is destroy his leverage. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by smelly

[devlman]

I’m still trying to figure out why dumbass Kevin Bahl decided it was a good idea to pinch in offensive zone prior to SJ’s 4th goal. Backbreaker.

[smelly]

Yup. It was obviously the coaching. 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by smelly

[ButlerBulldog]

I just got back from the Rock.  This was my first time seeing this group in person, and my impressions are as follows:

• The Devils are the least prepared team in the league.  Virtually every game has seen them sleepwalk through the first period while Jack figures out what to do, and tonight was no exception to this rule.
• Jack is an exceptionally good skater, puck handler, and passer, but he makes mistakes when he tries to force the issue as opposed to picking his spots.  Whether his trying to do too much reflects a lack of confidence in his teammates versus waning trust in Lindy isn’t immediately clear.
• The gap between Jack and Jesper is wider than most people (in the national media, at least) realize.
• Alex Holtz gives the Devils more than Dawson Mercer or Ondrej Palat does.
• Nico and Luke are this team’s most dependable defensive players.  Nemec will be a very good player once he learns the league.
• Related to the above point, Jonas Siegenthaler is washed.
• Schmid played poorly, but I don’t fault him for what happened, as he should never have started back-to-back games.  It’s an indictment of Vanecek that Lindy would stick with a tired goaltender.
• Fans were extremely angry and agitated leaving the building, and a “Fire Lindy” chant broke out among a group walking ahead of me.
• This team will eventually play well enough to make a run, but it won’t advance past the opening round of the playoffs.

Edited December 2, 2023 by ButlerBulldog

[smelly]

21 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said:

I just got back from the Rock.  This was my first time seeing this group in person, and my impressions are as follows:

• The Devils are the least prepared team in the league.  Virtually every game has seen them sleepwalk through the first period while Jack figures out what to do, and tonight was no exception to this rule.
• Jack is an exceptionally good skater, puck handler, and passer, but he makes mistakes when he tries to force the issue as opposed to picking his spots.  Whether his trying to do too much reflects a lack of confidence in his teammates versus waning trust in Lindy isn’t immediately clear.
• The gap between Jack and Jesper is wider than most people (in the national media, at least) realize.
• Alex Holtz gives the Devils more than Dawson Mercer or Ondrej Palat does.
• Nico and Luke are this team’s most dependable defensive players.  Nemec will be a very good player once he learns the league.
• Related to the above point, Jonas Siegenthaler is washed.
• Schmid played poorly, but I don’t fault him for what happened, as he should never have started back-to-back games.  It’s an indictment of Vanecek that Lindy would stick with a tired goaltender.
• Fans were extremely angry and agitated leaving the building, and a “Fire Lindy” chant broke out among a group walking ahead of me.
• This team will eventually play well enough to make a run, but it won’t advance past the opening round of the playoffs.

Fair enough, but I’m not sure how anyone could definitively draw those conclusions from any single in-person viewing. If you’d been there last Saturday instead I’d bet some of your thoughts would be different. I’ve been to all but one of their home games and certainly don’t feel I’ve seen enough to predict their postseason fate. Maybe you are just more gifted than I.

The advanced stats make it clear that NJ played more than well enough to win this game. In fact the data are so overwhelming that even if you don’t buy advanced stats that can’t really be argued. 
 

And I don’t care whether AS should have been playing or not. If he’s an NHL goalie he has to do better than .706. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by smelly

[ButlerBulldog]

11 minutes ago, smelly said:

Fair enough, but I’m not sure how anyone could definitively draw those conclusions from any single in-person viewing. If you’d been there last Saturday instead I’d bet some of your thoughts would be different. I’ve been to all but one of their home games and certainly don’t feel I’ve seen enough to predict their postseason fate. Maybe you are just more gifted than I.

The advanced stats make it clear that NJ played more than well enough to win this game. In fact the data are so overwhelming that even if you don’t buy advanced stats that can’t really be argued. 
 

And I don’t care whether AS should have been playing or not. If he’s an NHL goalie he has to do better than .706. 

If you take the time to read my post carefully, you’ll note that I didn’t draw any conclusions.  I said that I had impressions based on what I saw.  Otherwise, what you say is of little consequence to me, as it’s also my impression that you come here only to troll as opposed to engaging in meaningful discussion.  Good night.

[Puckbuster]

I couldn’t watch the game.  I was limited to watching the recap.  My opinion is that everyone of those goals Schmid didn’t even have a chance.

Goal 1, Ferraro was left all alone for the easy goal on a wide open net.  Timo loses the puck because he couldn’t make an outlet pass to Holtz.  I don’t understand why Holtz is riding the blue line to the boards, instead of, skating north to the oz.

Goal 2, turnover in their own zone, Sharks move the puck around the boards McDonald in the slot redirects as Schmid is screen by Sharks and Devils players.

Goal 3, again this time Duclair all alone with a wide open net because Siegs decides to lay down to stop the pass, instead of, covering Duclair.  Let the goalie play the puck!

Goal 4, the Devils turnover the puck and get caught behind.  Duclair comes in and scores.

Goal 5, loose puck in front of the net, Sharks get to it first, goal.

Goal 6, EN

The coaching sucks.

[smelly]

32 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said:

If you take the time to read my post carefully, you’ll note that I didn’t draw any conclusions.  I said that I had impressions based on what I saw.  Otherwise, what you say is of little consequence to me, as it’s also my impression that you come here only to troll as opposed to engaging in meaningful discussion.  Good night.

Fair enough. To each his or her own. I disagree. 
 

But the trolling assertion is objectively inaccurate. My posts are always substantive. They just strike a nerve because despite the previous hostility they unfairly engendered they’ve been proven to be indisputably accurate. And people have a hard time admitting they were wrong, especially after having been so rude, strident and dismissive about it for so long (that doesn’t include you - they know who they are). 

Edited December 2, 2023 by smelly

[smelly]

32 minutes ago, Puckbuster said:

I couldn’t watch the game.  I was limited to watching the recap.  My opinion is that everyone of those goals Schmid didn’t even have a chance.

Goal 1, Ferraro was left all alone for the easy goal on a wide open net.  Timo loses the puck because he couldn’t make an outlet pass to Holtz.  I don’t understand why Holtz is riding the blue line to the boards, instead of, skating north to the oz.

Goal 2, turnover in their own zone, Sharks move the puck around the boards McDonald in the slot redirects as Schmid is screen by Sharks and Devils players.

Goal 3, again this time Duclair all alone with a wide open net because Siegs decides to lay down to stop the pass, instead of, covering Duclair.  Let the goalie play the puck!

Goal 4, the Devils turnover the puck and get caught behind.  Duclair comes in and scores.

Goal 5, loose puck in front of the net, Sharks get to it first, goal.

Goal 6, EN

The coaching sucks.

The advanced stats don’t support this. Not even close. The Devils outperformed the Sharks by ten country miles. 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

22 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

As a sports peasmist those are the sort of stats that make me really nervous. Lol

Of course.

There has got to be some sort of heat on Lindy right now. You can't get obliterated by the leagues worst team and not be under scrutiny.

[moustic]

41 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Of course.

There has got to be some sort of heat on Lindy right now. You can't get obliterated by the leagues worst team and not be under scrutiny.

Would you bet on this ? ; ) 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 hours ago, smelly said:

Fair enough. To each his or her own. I disagree. 
 

But the trolling assertion is objectively inaccurate. My posts are always substantive. They just strike a nerve because despite the previous hostility they unfairly engendered they’ve been proven to be indisputably accurate. And people have a hard time admitting they were wrong, especially after having been so rude, strident and dismissive about it for so long (that doesn’t include you - they know who they are). 

I re-read the offseason thread where goaltending was discussed, and I was not rude, strident nor dismissive to you.  What I said at that time was that I wasn’t interested in adding Hellebuyck specifically (apparently no other teams were either) and that I also simply wanted to see if VV and Schmid could build off 2022-23, and along with that, if the Devils could possibly develop another young goalie from within.  I also was concerned about tying up a lot of money in a 30+ year goalie at that time, and pointed out that, as we saw, that having the more expensive, big-name goalies wouldn’t necessarily guarantee going deeper into the playoffs.

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 hours ago, slasher72 said:

Without a doubt. I even wonder if he's happy here, being just one of many high caliber players vs being the face of a franchise. I think a lot of fans got excited with the prospect of having both Meier and Hischier on the same team, two Swiss stars playing together and putting up ridiculous numbers, but it hasn't materialized.

Meier looks like a shell of his SJ self. And the same could obviously be said of Palat. 

It'd be nice also to see Bratt step in and take over a game every now and then but I don't think he's that type of player. 

I don’t think Meier re-signs if he didn’t think he’d be happy here.

He also just got back into the lineup last night, so won’t get on him too much if he was feeling a bit rusty.

BUT, very soon I’m going to need to see Timo be the Timo we all hoped that he could be, no more excuses.  Through 36 regular season games, he’s put up 14 G and 11 A as a Devil…that’s about 32 G and 25 A per 82 GP, which isn’t that far off what I’d expect from his “low end” of his given points window any given season (I’m thinking he’ll be good for 60-80 points and 30-40 goals per 82 GP for most of his remaining prime years here).  But something has been missing and just a little bit off for much of his brief time here.  I really just want to see him look fully comfortable and settled already. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevils1214]

7 hours ago, Puckbuster said:

I couldn’t watch the game.  I was limited to watching the recap.  My opinion is that everyone of those goals Schmid didn’t even have a chance.

Goal 1, Ferraro was left all alone for the easy goal on a wide open net.  Timo loses the puck because he couldn’t make an outlet pass to Holtz.  I don’t understand why Holtz is riding the blue line to the boards, instead of, skating north to the oz.

Goal 2, turnover in their own zone, Sharks move the puck around the boards McDonald in the slot redirects as Schmid is screen by Sharks and Devils players.

Goal 3, again this time Duclair all alone with a wide open net because Siegs decides to lay down to stop the pass, instead of, covering Duclair.  Let the goalie play the puck!

Goal 4, the Devils turnover the puck and get caught behind.  Duclair comes in and scores.

Goal 5, loose puck in front of the net, Sharks get to it first, goal.

Goal 6, EN

The coaching sucks.

The mental side of goaltending is also important and I really think that people who just want to flat out sh!t on the goaltending and make it the only issue are missing that. Schmid and VV can give league average goaltending when everything is going right. What we are seeing is what they can give when the team in front of them doesn't just look like sh!t in a single frame, but over a long period. They are not elite/superstar goaltenders. They were never going to be, and don't posses the "X" factor that elite goalies have to absolutely steal games on a nightly basis. They are good enough to get the job done when the team in front of them is clicking, and if the team has an off night once in a while, they might find a way to steal a game(like VV did last year). The team as a whole still hasn't gotten their sh!t together this year. They're playing like sh!t, especially on the defensive side of the puck, regularly. The goaltenders have to have as little faith in the guys in front of them as the guys in front of them have in them. That's not a recipe for success. Their confidence is in the sh!tter and for good reason. You're not going to get peak performance from any athlete when they're in that state-- especially a goalie.

This whole season has a rot that is continuing to fester. The team has given up the first goal in most games this season... NJ can't even start games off on the right foot. This doesn't absolve goaltenders from blame, but is why a lateral move in goal is overwhelmingly likely to not solve anything. They're going to catch the rot that is in that room.