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The Official 2014 Trade Deadline Thread


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#181 '7'

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:27 AM

The fact that Lou used the team's first draft pick on a defenseman, when he said that it "didn't take a rocket scientist" to know that the Devils needed young scorers, would seem to tell you that management is very high on him.  And he's exceeded expectations.  I'm not against trading anyone if the price is right, but you can't just give up on someone that good for a so-so rental and just say, well we have enough defensemen anyway, so no big loss. 

 

Or he could Lance Ward it all over again. 


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#182 Devils731

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:28 AM

There are dozens more Matteau's to be had in this draft. He doesn't have 30 goal potential, he doesn't have high end offensive skills. Not particularly good with the puck. Drafts are teeming with guys like that from the lower portion of the 1st round through the fourth round. He can be another Clarkson maybe...who we can do with, or without. Losing him isn't especially painful

 

We have Merrill and Gelinas with Severson in the wings. There will be another draft this year to draft another defenseman. We can part with Santini. No great tragedy. We should've taken Petan with that pick anyway

 

I think you're underselling both Matteau and Santini.  Both are having nice seasons and that extra information from after they were drafted let's us known there likely aren't 20 or 30(I found the term teeming to represent this number) of these guys in each draft.

 

You're effectively saying you'd trade Matteau and Santini for a 2nd and 4th rounder right now, which would be a crazy bad use of resources as those guys, so far, are panning out rather than fizzling out, when most draft picks fizzle.

 

I agree that you can part with either in the right deal, but saying that they're a dime a dozen is ignoring what they've done since they were drafted or ignoring how many drafted players go on downward slides after being drafted.


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#183 Triumph

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:36 AM

Devils already don't have their first-rounder, not sure I'd want to give up what looks to be roughly a mid-second for a rental that doesn't look like a strong bet to really help.  Not thrilled about moving next year's second either, but I'm a little more open to that I guess. 

 

Here are Mike Cammalleri's most common linemates this year:  Lee Stempniak, Matt Stajan, Mikael Backlund, Joe Colborne, Jiri Hudler, Sean Monahan.  Meanwhile you have Dainius Zubrus on the top line where he's helping fish pucks out of corners but is really not doing much else - I think Cammalleri would help a great deal.  Let Zajac and Jagr fish pucks out of the corners and feed them to Cammalleri.


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#184 Daniel

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:36 AM

Or he could Lance Ward it all over again. 

 

Or he could be Adam Foote.  Or Larsson could be Thomas Hickey, or Severson could be Matt Corrente, or Merrill could be Mike Van Ryn, who knows. 

 

I'd rather take a chance that Santini never sees the NHL than to give up on him for someone that's not so great, and where it's 50/50 you don't make the playoffs. 


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#185 '7'

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:42 AM

Or he could be Adam Foote.  Or Larsson could be Thomas Hickey, or Severson could be Matt Corrente, or Merrill could be Mike Van Ryn, who knows. 

 

I'd rather take a chance that Santini never sees the NHL than to give up on him for someone that's not so great, and where it's 50/50 you don't make the playoffs. 

 

I just don't have the same reverence and trust in Lou when it comes to picking young talent. Remember Josefson was supposed to be this great two way player in the mold of what Frans Nielsen is now. He busted on that pick as well.


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#186 coldply123

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:49 AM

They are not dime a dozen prospects. Teams go nuts for these sorts of players when they turn out to be any good. Matteau is having a decent first season as a pro given that he's 19. Santini is having a terrific year at BC - someone at BC claims that he's moved from the 3rd pairing to the 1st, and he's a freshman.

Cammalleri would be a very good fit on Jagr's LW. I'm not sure how many teams out there have this sort of hole and think that Cammalleri can fill it. I'd trade this year's 2nd or next year's 2nd and Reece Scarlett, that'd be as high as I go and even that I think is pretty high given that most teams will need a salary pickup on Cammalleri and may not even like him much anyway. There's Vanek and Moulson out there too - LW isn't exactly a super high demand position at this deadline.


You and I are starting to agree more and more again finally.
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#187 Daniel

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:54 AM

I just don't have the same reverence and trust in Lou when it comes to picking young talent. Remember Josefson was supposed to be this great two way player in the mold of what Frans Nielsen is now. He busted on that pick as well.

 

It would be one thing if Santinni were in and out of the lineup and getting not a lot of minutes when he was playing.  Kind of like what it seemed the situation that Ranger prospect, Brady Skej, was in his Freshman year at Minnesota (and he's actually improved a lot his sophomore year).  But it seems that no matter who you ask, he's playing very well as a freshman at BC.  Matteau is a very young AHLer who is putting up pretty similar numbers to Zemgus Girgensons. 

 

Again, if the right deal comes around, that's fine.  You don't just give them away, which is what you'd be doing for maybe two months of Mike Cammialerri.


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#188 Triumph

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:55 AM

I just don't have the same reverence and trust in Lou when it comes to picking young talent. Remember Josefson was supposed to be this great two way player in the mold of what Frans Nielsen is now. He busted on that pick as well.

 

And Josefson looked like a pretty good player until he got hurt and also got put in the doghouse.  He'll still be an NHLer, just not an above average one.  There's uncertainty with draft picks.  Look at a guy like Matteau - people compared him to Tyler Biggs.  Well, Biggs is a year older and currently has 8 points in the AHL - he's a bust.  Meanwhile Matteau's doing just fine in the AHL, and he was no slouch in the NHL either - there's lots of work to be done there, but he's got a lot of positive attributes.  You can't just say 'Lou drafted this guy so he's good/bad' - have to look at how he's developing too.  There's a lot of distance between the draft and the NHL for anyone outside the top 10 picks.


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#189 HellOnICE

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:26 AM

I don't know what to think. You gotta give up something to get something. I think my problem is I want a new Parise or a Kovalchuk, A-list star - and for that I am willing to give up a ton of stuff. If we had a lot of assets, I'd say sure let's throw something for Cammeleri he's the missing piece. I'm just not even sure Cammeleri is going to help considerably down the line.

 

I'm conflicted.


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#190 Steadevils

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:54 AM

And Josefson looked like a pretty good player until he got hurt and also got put in the doghouse.  He'll still be an NHLer, just not an above average one.  There's uncertainty with draft picks.  Look at a guy like Matteau - people compared him to Tyler Biggs.  Well, Biggs is a year older and currently has 8 points in the AHL - he's a bust.  Meanwhile Matteau's doing just fine in the AHL, and he was no slouch in the NHL either - there's lots of work to be done there, but he's got a lot of positive attributes.  You can't just say 'Lou drafted this guy so he's good/bad' - have to look at how he's developing too.  There's a lot of distance between the draft and the NHL for anyone outside the top 10 picks.

 

 

To this point,  the 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts are looking like early successes for unearthing NHL Games played. After a bad decade of drafts (in terms of NHL games played 2001, 2002 [besides CAM JAM!!], 2006, and 2007 were complete whiffs) these last drafts look like they have some consistant NHLers in them. IMO the key to staying a playoff team is consistantly finding 1 or 2 NHLers year after year more so than finding the occassional grand slam pick and the Devils seem to be getting back to a pattern of doing that. OBP> HR's.


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#191 Brandon

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:06 PM

It's unbelievably ignorant to call Matteau and Santini dime-a-dozen prospects, when they pan out you're looking at guys like Dan Girardi and Chris Stewart, who wouldn't want guys like that on their team?
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#192 '7'

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:11 PM

It's unbelievably ignorant to call Matteau and Santini dime-a-dozen prospects, when they pan out you're looking at guys like Dan Girardi and Chris Stewart, who wouldn't want guys like that on their team?

 

right, I'm sure. When can we expect to see Blake Coleman and Mike Hoeffel here?

 Every team has similar prospects. 

 

There is a scenario you know where we sit on these guys, they bust, we lose an opportunity to gain a good player via trade...and miss the playoffs. Everybody seems so convinced these guys are the goods that they seem to forget even bigger prospects we've had who've busted.


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#193 Devils731

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:15 PM

So you find Santini and Matteau interchangeable with Coleman and Hoeffel?

Maybe the Devils can trade Scarlett for Drouin, since prospects are completely random.
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#194 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:17 PM

right, I'm sure. When can we expect to see Blake Coleman and Mike Hoeffel here?

 Every team has similar prospects. 

 

There is a scenario you know where we sit on these guys, they bust, we lose an opportunity to gain a good player via trade...and miss the playoffs. Everybody seems so convinced these guys are the goods that they seem to forget even bigger prospects we've had who've busted.

 

Neither of those guys were holding their own in the NHL at 18, or moving from 3rd pairing to 1st pairing as a college freshman.


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#195 Brandon

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:17 PM

right, I'm sure. When can we expect to see Blake Coleman and Mike Hoeffel here?
Every team has similar prospects.

There is a scenario you know where we sit on these guys, they bust, we lose an opportunity to gain a good player via trade...and miss the playoffs. Everybody seems so convinced these guys are the goods that they seem to forget even bigger prospects we've had who've busted.

Blake Coleman and Mike Hoeffel aren't highly touted prospects that were picked in the first two rounds of the draft, yes you need to give up something good to get something good but saying that Matteau and Santini are prospects that are easily replaced is far from the truth. Matteau is either our best or 2nd best forward prospect on a team that's thin in those and Santini is a very promising shutdown defender (something this team needs in the future) that's having an excellent Freshman year at BC
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#196 '7'

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:22 PM

We are so weak at forward prospect wise that Matteau is thought of as this untouchable guy when really he ends up 3rd or 4th on other teams depth charts. This guy is not Ryan Strome or Grigorenko

 

Santini is expendable because we are very well set at D.


Edited by '7', 28 February 2014 - 12:26 PM.

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#197 Daniel

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:27 PM

We are so weak at forward prospect wise that Matteau is thought of as this untouchable guy when really he ends up 3rd or 4th on other teams depth charts.

 

Santini is expendable because we are very well set at D.

 

They are not "untouchable".  I don't know how you interpret anyone as saying that.  What everyone else is saying is that you can't throw them away in trades for mediocre rentals.  And no, we're not getting Sydney Crosby for them either.  But there are a lot options in between.

 

And again, both Santini and Matteau are playing well since they've been drafted.  Hoeffel and Burlon didn't show nearly as much after being drafted.  That's the difference.


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#198 Brandon

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

We are so weak at forward prospect wise that Matteau is thought of as this untouchable guy when really he ends up 3rd or 4th on other teams depth charts. This guy is not Ryan Strome or Grigorenko

Santini is expendable because we are very well set at D.

A forward doesn't need to be a sniper or a scorer like Strome or Grigorenko in order to be considered valuable. If that were the case people would be trading Dustin Browns and Chris Stewarts left and right.

The thing with the prospects that I know you're referencing that have busted (Bergfors, Tedenby), if they're a scorer they need to put up points in order to be beneficial to the team, if Matteau makes the team and scores 15-20 goals, he also pulls his weight in defensive and physical play.
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#199 dmann422

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:32 PM

right, I'm sure. When can we expect to see Blake Coleman and Mike Hoeffel here?
Every team has similar prospects.

There is a scenario you know where we sit on these guys, they bust, we lose an opportunity to gain a good player via trade...and miss the playoffs. Everybody seems so convinced these guys are the goods that they seem to forget even bigger prospects we've had who've busted.

I have no problem moving any of our prospects so long as it's for the right price- a guy like cammalleri while an upgrade hardly guarantees a playoff spot. If we move santini for him and we miss the playoffs it would be terrible. If you're talking a higher caliber player or a player with term left then sure id consider it but if it's for a guy like cammalleri or gaborik id rather just package a pick and a lesser prospect, and if that's not enough then pass.
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#200 MantaRay

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:47 PM

I'd replace Ryder, Brunner, and Bernier with Boyes, Hemsky, and Gaborik.

 

I have absolutely no idea if we can fit this lineup under the cap though.

 

Why would ANYONE want to do this? 


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