DeBoer "Firing Watch" Thread

[hystyk28]

Yes PDB, really couldn't finish on that 5 on 3.

[MadDog2020]

Yes PDB, really couldn't finish on that 5 on 3.

Does he have his violin out? Edited November 30, 2014 by MadDog2020

[HellOnICE]

I don't know. The guys are playing their hearts out just making bad decisions and the talent is just not there. Sometimes I want to fire Pete, but sometimes I wonder what another coach would do differently with the same roster. A team with no real first line leaders, this is what you're going to get.

[NJDevs4978]

I don't know. The guys are playing their hearts out

 

Your definition of that and mine are completely different based on what I've watched this year.  They start almost every game slowly, have had many more no-shows than in the last couple years and even games like tonight they had 35 bad minutes but everyone's going gaga over the final 25 minutes against a team playing its sixth game in nine days.

Edited November 30, 2014 by NJDevs4978

[devilsrule33]

I gave my reasons why Deboer hasn't been fired, and I guess I see more in line with Lou than most people here.

 

Not even the biggest Deboer defenders are going to be happy with the team this year. They have struggled big time. Some people want to bring up 1 playoff year in 6 seasons. It's lazy. I don't give a sh!t what happened in Florida. It's pointless, but I'll defend it because the group of players he coached absolutely fvcking sucked, and as Tri has pointed out 4-5 times, there might be 4 NHLers left from his final team in 2011.

 

The job he did in 2012 and 2013-2014 was really solid. Given there was no Parise and Kovalchuk...given that Hedberg had to play half the games in 2013 and Brodeur in 2014, the team played with great structure, they played with great discipline and generally were the better team each night. Those were well coached seasons.

 

So while other people want this season to be an extension of past years, that's where I'll disagree completely. Well, this year has sucked. For whatever reason the structure is not there, the discipline is not there, the slow starts have been troublesome. The PK has been sh!t. It goes on and on. So while others want to pile on, I and I suppose Lou since Deboer is still here, want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But here is my main issue. Most people want to run to this thread after a bad game, and just blame Deboer after the game. The Devils came out flat..."fvcking Deboer". The Devils lost..."wonder what Deboer's excuse is now". Sometime team's just need a coaching change. They tune a coach out or get complacent or take them for granted. Whatever happened to the fvcking "character" and "veteran leadership" this group has. Elias, Jagr, Greene, Zidlickly, Havlat, Clowe, Cammalleri, Zajac, Henrique, Gionta, Ruutu, Zubrus, etc etc etc. It's such an easy scapegoat to blame a coach after a bad game or a slow start. From all the complaining about Deboer, you would think the Devils are a coaching change away from fixing everything (haven't heard which coach is going to be the one to do that though).

 

Everyone gets ready to rip Deboer's comments after another loss, but no one seems to comment on the player's indifference at all. As Pat Burns said when the Devils struggled, I can't play for them. It seems most people here think Deboer can. You don't need a fvcking coach to let the group know that this game is damn important, and they need to bring it from the opening puck drop. Just another reason why I role my eyes when Lou and hockey people talk about "character" (something he described about Greene, Zidlicky, Salvador, Gionta. Zajac, Elias, Zubrus and pretty much everyone else). Give me talent over character any day of the week.

[BostonNala370]

I gave my reasons why Deboer hasn't been fired, and I guess I see more in line with Lou than most people here.

 

Not even the biggest Deboer defenders are going to be happy with the team this year. They have struggled big time. Some people want to bring up 1 playoff year in 6 seasons. It's lazy. I don't give a sh!t what happened in Florida. It's pointless, but I'll defend it because the group of players he coached absolutely fvcking sucked, and as Tri has pointed out 4-5 times, there might be 4 NHLers left from his final team in 2011.

 

The job he did in 2012 and 2013-2014 was really solid. Given there was no Parise and Kovalchuk...given that Hedberg had to play half the games in 2013 and Brodeur in 2014, the team played with great structure, they played with great discipline and generally were the better team each night. Those were well coached seasons.

 

So while other people want this season to be an extension of past years, that's where I'll disagree completely. Well, this year has sucked. For whatever reason the structure is not there, the discipline is not there, the slow starts have been troublesome. The PK has been sh!t. It goes on and on. So while others want to pile on, I and I suppose Lou since Deboer is still here, want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But here is my main issue. Most people want to run to this thread after a bad game, and just blame Deboer after the game. The Devils came out flat..."fvcking Deboer". The Devils lost..."wonder what Deboer's excuse is now". Sometime team's just need a coaching change. They tune a coach out or get complacent or take them for granted. Whatever happened to the fvcking "character" and "veteran leadership" this group has. Elias, Jagr, Greene, Zidlickly, Havlat, Clowe, Cammalleri, Zajac, Henrique, Gionta, Ruutu, Zubrus, etc etc etc. It's such an easy scapegoat to blame a coach after a bad game or a slow start. From all the complaining about Deboer, you would think the Devils are a coaching change away from fixing everything (haven't heard which coach is going to be the one to do that though).

 

Everyone gets ready to rip Deboer's comments after another loss, but no one seems to comment on the player's indifference at all. As Pat Burns said when the Devils struggled, I can't play for them. It seems most people here think Deboer can. You don't need a fvcking coach to let the group know that this game is damn important, and they need to bring it from the opening puck drop. Just another reason why I role my eyes when Lou and hockey people talk about "character" (something he described about Greene, Zidlicky, Salvador, Gionta. Zajac, Elias, Zubrus and pretty much everyone else). Give me talent over character any day of the week.

[BostonNala370]

I gave my reasons why Deboer hasn't been fired, and I guess I see more in line with Lou than most people here.

 

Not even the biggest Deboer defenders are going to be happy with the team this year. They have struggled big time. Some people want to bring up 1 playoff year in 6 seasons. It's lazy. I don't give a sh!t what happened in Florida. It's pointless, but I'll defend it because the group of players he coached absolutely fvcking sucked, and as Tri has pointed out 4-5 times, there might be 4 NHLers left from his final team in 2011.

 

The job he did in 2012 and 2013-2014 was really solid. Given there was no Parise and Kovalchuk...given that Hedberg had to play half the games in 2013 and Brodeur in 2014, the team played with great structure, they played with great discipline and generally were the better team each night. Those were well coached seasons.

 

So while other people want this season to be an extension of past years, that's where I'll disagree completely. Well, this year has sucked. For whatever reason the structure is not there, the discipline is not there, the slow starts have been troublesome. The PK has been sh!t. It goes on and on. So while others want to pile on, I and I suppose Lou since Deboer is still here, want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But here is my main issue. Most people want to run to this thread after a bad game, and just blame Deboer after the game. The Devils came out flat..."fvcking Deboer". The Devils lost..."wonder what Deboer's excuse is now". Sometime team's just need a coaching change. They tune a coach out or get complacent or take them for granted. Whatever happened to the fvcking "character" and "veteran leadership" this group has. Elias, Jagr, Greene, Zidlickly, Havlat, Clowe, Cammalleri, Zajac, Henrique, Gionta, Ruutu, Zubrus, etc etc etc. It's such an easy scapegoat to blame a coach after a bad game or a slow start. From all the complaining about Deboer, you would think the Devils are a coaching change away from fixing everything (haven't heard which coach is going to be the one to do that though).

 

Everyone gets ready to rip Deboer's comments after another loss, but no one seems to comment on the player's indifference at all. As Pat Burns said when the Devils struggled, I can't play for them. It seems most people here think Deboer can. You don't need a fvcking coach to let the group know that this game is damn important, and they need to bring it from the opening puck drop. Just another reason why I role my eyes when Lou and hockey people talk about "character" (something he described about Greene, Zidlicky, Salvador, Gionta. Zajac, Elias, Zubrus and pretty much everyone else). Give me talent over character any day of the week.

You are saying is that we don't have the talent to get the job done and that's not DeBoer's fault. I agree! That's Lou's fault.. So what do you do now? Cheer and follow another team?

[NJDevs4978]

But here is my main issue. Most people want to run to this thread after a bad game, and just blame Deboer after the game. The Devils came out flat..."fvcking Deboer". The Devils lost..."wonder what Deboer's excuse is now". Sometime team's just need a coaching change. They tune a coach out or get complacent or take them for granted. Whatever happened to the fvcking "character" and "veteran leadership" this group has. Elias, Jagr, Greene, Zidlickly, Havlat, Clowe, Cammalleri, Zajac, Henrique, Gionta, Ruutu, Zubrus, etc etc etc. It's such an easy scapegoat to blame a coach after a bad game or a slow start. From all the complaining about Deboer, you would think the Devils are a coaching change away from fixing everything (haven't heard which coach is going to be the one to do that though).

 

Everyone gets ready to rip Deboer's comments after another loss, but no one seems to comment on the player's indifference at all. 

 

That's an extension of the problem though, when you have a culture where it's okay to be .500 and hope to make a run why should I be surprised when people take advantage of the lack of (or rather, selective) accountability?

[jagknife]

That's an extension of the problem though, when you have a culture where it's okay to be .500 and hope to make a run why should I be surprised when people take advantage of the lack of (or rather, selective) accountability?

 

Exactly, he facilitates this losing atmosphere with his "well they tried" bullsh!t.

 

Commenting about it should be on the veterans to step up? I agreed whole heartedly. Problem is, when its obvious they're not stepping up, one immediately has to think about why that may be, I personally believe no one wants to play for him and his system and that's why we cant dig out of the skid we're on.

 

You fire a coach to try and spark a change, as Lou has said and even done himself [even right before the post season], to me, this is one of those instances where it is almost a necessity.

[HellOnICE]

That's an extension of the problem though, when you have a culture where it's okay to be .500 and hope to make a run why should I be surprised when people take advantage of the lack of (or rather, selective) accountability?

 

I don't see where this culture has presented itself. Can you show me a quote?

 

Lou said a few weeks ago they need to get to .500 and go from there, that was practical, had nothing to do with philosophy/culture. 

 

 

The team doesn't have the talent we are game what 23 in. The PK has been light years better in the last few weeks but once that went up, the scoring bottomed out. Figures. And it ain't Salvador who were missing on offense. 

 

Rangers have Nash and St. Louis

Islanders of Tavares

Washington has Ovie

Pittsburgh has Sid and Malkin

Philly even has Giroux

 

You can go on and on...but the fact remains, we don't have first line talent. We just don't and it's awfully hard to win games without them. 

[NJDevs4978]

I don't see where this culture has presented itself. Can you show me a quote?

 

Lou said a few weeks ago they need to get to .500 and go from there, that was practical, had nothing to do with philosophy/culture. 

 

http://fireandice.northjersey.com/fire-ice-1.174987/brodeur-devils-need-an-attitude-adjustment-hanging-around-500-not-good-enough-1.1046165

 

“To a certain extent, the last few years it’s almost, ‘.500 is OK. Let’s get a few games and then we’ll start rolling then,’” Brodeur said. “That’s the attitude we never had before and it’s been creeping up a little bit and has to be adjusted.”

 

“We used to be a team that didn’t hover over .500. That’s something that only the last few years we’ve been content with being that,” Brodeur said. “Even the year we made it all the way (to the Stanley Cup Finals), all year it’s not like we gave ourselves a big cushion. We had to come back late to the middle of the season there to get a push to get in the playoffs. So, it’s something that going forward, (Lamoriello’s) got to make sure we get back to that, the organization to have more of an impact and not just in the regular season, but when you get into the playoffs.

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I love Marty, but his poor puck-stopping didn't help matters the past couple of seasons. He was as much as a part of the problem as anything else.

If the Devils keep losing, I fully expect Lou will change coaches. Not sure how much difference it will make. There's just not much talent to work with.

[PWW]

There's 100% no accountability on this team and I put that on Pete. He doesn't hold anyone accountable for their mistakes (unless they're Swedish or a rookie) so a lot of guys don't seem to hold themselves accountable. It's always "we deserved better" and "we didn't get the bounces", even Patty has been spouting quotes like this lately. That's unacceptable and it starts with the atmosphere that DeBoer has created. He'd rather find silver linings in getting a point than be upset about losing the second one. He's gotta go and someone who won't just accept these constant blown leads and lacks of effort for periods at a time has to be brought in. Do I think it will help us this season and get us to the playoffs? Probably not. But the culture needs to change before these young guys start spouting the same nonsense about "bad luck" and what they "deserved".

[HellOnICE]

http://fireandice.northjersey.com/fire-ice-1.174987/brodeur-devils-need-an-attitude-adjustment-hanging-around-500-not-good-enough-1.1046165

 

That's great and all for a team that has Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur and elite talent everywhere. The team is playing hard (didn't say well) but they don't have the talent. It's easy to sit there and think "these guys aren't giving their all for 60 minutes." That is what a player says when they don't say/admit/acknowledge they don't have the talent.

 

I rarely think this team doesn't show up and there are games in an 82 game schedule where that'll happen...but there are 2 teams on the ice - 23-to-25 teams who just have better talent than the Devils do - let's face it. So there's a lot of nights that'll look like the Devils aren't playing 60 minutes...and the fact is - they just can't keep up. They can have flashes of luck, things going right and the occasional moments where you surprise someone/stolen game - but to expect them to win every game is nonsense. 

 

But for a team that is what it is, they know it, we know it - the expectations for this team is the playoffs. Make the playoffs and go from there. 

There's 100% no accountability on this team and I put that on Pete. He doesn't hold anyone accountable for their mistakes (unless they're Swedish or a rookie) so a lot of guys don't seem to hold themselves accountable. It's always "we deserved better" and "we didn't get the bounces", even Patty has been spouting quotes like this lately. That's unacceptable and it starts with the atmosphere that DeBoer has created. He'd rather find silver linings in getting a point than be upset about losing the second one. He's gotta go and someone who won't just accept these constant blown leads and lacks of effort for periods at a time has to be brought in. Do I think it will help us this season and get us to the playoffs? Probably not. But the culture needs to change before these young guys start spouting the same nonsense about "bad luck" and what they "deserved".

 

Every team says that stuff. It's hockey cliche 101. It's the shooters shooting the shots, not the bounces. 

[EdgeControl]

only two 3 game winning streaks in two years and four in the last three years (one was a five).  thats a hard way to make a living grinding every single night  its amazing this team hadnt quit on him a year ago.  but even I dont care anymore.. let lou come down and coach this bunch.  we just have to suck it up this year and next cause it aint changing until then
 

[Triumph]

DeBoer is close to being fired but the Devils owe it to him to make one trade before they get rid of him.  Ryder and Havlat are just liabilities out there who make the occasional goal scoring play.  The days of the Devils having several two-way forwards is gone - Zajac is, but his offense is drying up, Elias is becoming a no-way player, as are Havlat and Ryder.  Zubrus has no offense, and Josefson has no offense.  I'd like to see the Devils go after Hemsky in Dallas who has started out just brutally there besides the one super game he played against us - throw them Brunner or Ryder and maybe a tiny prospect or something.  

[Devilsfan118]

I wouldn't have a problem with keeping PDB around for a rebuild (because with his coaching we're apparently looking at a lottery pick) if he was able to properly develop youth.

 

But that doesn't seem to be one of his strongest attributes.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Devilsfan118

[caron14]

I check twitter all day and wish for a press conference!

[sundstrom]

DeBoer is close to being fired but the Devils owe it to him to make one trade before they get rid of him.  Ryder and Havlat are just liabilities out there who make the occasional goal scoring play.  The days of the Devils having several two-way forwards is gone - Zajac is, but his offense is drying up, Elias is becoming a no-way player, as are Havlat and Ryder.  Zubrus has no offense, and Josefson has no offense.  I'd like to see the Devils go after Hemsky in Dallas who has started out just brutally there besides the one super game he played against us - throw them Brunner or Ryder and maybe a tiny prospect or something.  

 

2 more years of hemsky @ $4MM? Devils should be GETTING something for that. If you deal Ryder, i'd want Hemsky + 4th or something because you're taking two more years of quite possibly damien brunner 2.0. its a hail mary, especially because hemsky hasn't been a goal scorer for 5 years. i know that he's a RW and the Devils are gonna be in big trouble there but i don't love it.

 

elias is a 3rd line LW at this point in his career - he's saku koivu's last years in anaheim.

[HellOnICE]

Agreed with Sund and Tri. There's too many zeroes on this team.

[CarpathianForest]

Trade everyone that is non-essential.

[caron14]

If we dont change coach we should sell big time.

 

Ryder out, Zubrus out, Jagr if we can get something out!, i would consider trading elias if you can get 1 round pick for him, 

 

Keep our young defense. Let play Brunner, Josefson, and other. 

 

The thing is... I still believe we would and could make the playoff with a turnaround like a new coach.

[sundstrom]

elias is not being traded so forget about that - he's got a NMC and doesn't want to leave. moreso, he's not going to get anything of real value back.

 

jagr and zidlicky will bring decent returns. ryder, brunner and any other flotsam will bring mid-round picks or fringe prospects at best

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Elias is on what can only be called an awful contract. The only thing you can do with him is hope he doesn't become a complete detriment while he's here, but it's not looking good. Some guys age seemingly overnight...just no way to tell who that's going to happen to.

[Neb00rs]

Tuomo Ruutu is getting 3.8M per year to play 10 minutes a game. That's my wtf??? issue.