NJDevils1214 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Nicomo said: He was last season. Top 4 in Sv% and top 3 in GAA. Whether he will be going forward is anybody’s guess. STL doesn’t win that Cup with Jake Allen in net though, that’s for sure. Andrew Rycroft put up amazing numbers his rookie year. He even won the Calder. I know he didn't win a cup, but his numbers were all like top 10 in the league. Now people are like... Who the fvck is Andrew Rycroft? He was in a bubble, he wasn't elite. Like you said, who knows. I just wouldn't say elite now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Regarding Binnington, he did play great. But that's not what he said. He said you don't need an "amazing" goalie. Are you ready to call Binnington "amazing" or "elite" after a total of what, 50-60 games played including the playoffs? I'm not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Regarding Binnington, he did play great. But that's not what he said. He said you don't need an "amazing" goalie. Are you ready to call Binnington "amazing" or "elite" after a total of what, 50-60 games played including the playoffs? I'm not. What does it matter that it’s a small sample size? He was a top goalie during his time in the league last year. That’s undebatable. And that’s all we can judge him off so far. I really don’t know what the argument is here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 52 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: Andrew Rycroft put up amazing numbers his rookie year. He even won the Calder. I know he didn't win a cup, but his numbers were all like top 10 in the league. Now people are like... Who the fvck is Andrew Rycroft? He was in a bubble, he wasn't elite. Like you said, who knows. I just wouldn't say elite now. As I remember Raycroft was piece of sh.. trade for Rask. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 How about Elias Pettersson? Is it too early to call him an “elite” or “amazing” player? He only has 71GP, but many would probably consider him one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Am I crazy, is my dislike/borderline hate for the Sabres clouding my judgement, or are these 50th anniversary jerseys from the Sabres “meh” at best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, Nicomo said: How about Elias Pettersson? Is it too early to call him an “elite” or “amazing” player? He only has 71GP, but many would probably consider him one. Yes. He's going to be elite and next year and he probably takes that step if he stays healthy. Pettersson had a lot more hype though. Bennington came out of no where and goalies are also more unpredictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 minute ago, NJDevils1214 said: Yes. He's going to be elite and next year and he probably takes that step if he stays healthy. Pettersson had a lot more hype though. Bennington came out of no where and goalies are also more unpredictable. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. You guys are focused on what will happen in the future, and I’m going off what they’ve already done. They were both amazing/elite players last season, imo. Hence the hardware (Stanley Cup and Calder Trophy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Ottawa Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nicomo said: I’m not sure I necessarily agree with that. Just look at the Cup final last season. Two great goalies in Rask and Binnington. The year before that it was MAF and Holtby. Sure you can win with guys like Corey Crawford or Matt Murray if you surround them with a bunch of HoFers, but having elite goaltending is just as important as ever, imo. MAF didn't win sh!t. It was Murray who brought home both cups. MAF was the winning goalie for one cup back vs Detroit and that's it. Edited August 16, 2019 by Rob_Ottawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, Nicomo said: We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. You guys are focused on what will happen in the future, and I’m going off what they’ve already done. They were both amazing/elite players last season, imo. Hence the hardware (Stanley Cup and Calder Trophy). The problem I have is that in the same sentence of saying you need an elite goaltender, you are minimizing the accomplishments of Crawford and Murray who each have 2 cup rings. Sure a top of the line goaltender could make it easier, but evidently it is not the most important cog. 52 minutes ago, jagknife said: Am I crazy, is my dislike/borderline hate for the Sabres clouding my judgement, or are these 50th anniversary jerseys from the Sabres “meh” at best? I kind of dig it. That team needs a change in the worst kind of way. It's certainly better than changing their color scheme to black and red, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, Nicomo said: We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. You guys are focused on what will happen in the future, and I’m going off what they’ve already done. They were both amazing/elite players last season, imo. Hence the hardware (Stanley Cup and Calder Trophy). No, I'm looking at what their body of work and saying 1 season(not even because neither played the whole thing) is enough for me to call a guy elite. The future is not a factor other than its going to take more than just 2/3 a season to convince me the guy isn't just Cory Crawford with a much better team in front of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Nicomo said: What does it matter that it’s a small sample size? He was a top goalie during his time in the league last year. That’s undebatable. And that’s all we can judge him off so far. I really don’t know what the argument is here... It matters because the argument turned into whether or not you need an elite goalie, and you can’t tell if a guy is an elite goalie in 60 games. He could be an average goalie who had a great run, which, as was pointed out, may be all you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Crisis said: I disagree with this take. What you say is pretty contradictory. Sure you can win if you surround a goalie with a bunch of HoFers.. how are Rask and Holtby exempt from that? Billington is a rookie so we don't know if he is an elite goaltender or a goalie on a hot streak, but he had a fantastic supporting cast. The conference runner ups played in front of Martin Jones (previous Stanley Cup losing goaltender who I wouldn't say is in the "elite" category) and Petr Mrazek. Sure, goaltending can certainly steal a few games, but I agree with NJD1214 that a top tier goaltender is not as much of a requirement as it used to be. I actually feel like what you said is contradictory... you mention that the conference runner-ups had netminders of Martin Jones and Petr Mrazek, two guys who are clearly pretty average tenders, which would then make the argument pretty easy that, had those teams had either Rask or Binnington, they would have had a much better chance at being the teams that made it to the Cup finals rather than coming up a round short. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Rob_Ottawa said: MAF didn't win sh!t. It was Murray who brought home both cups. MAF was the winning goalie for one cup back vs Detroit and that's it. Except Fleury held down the fort for two rounds when Murray was hurt in 2017. So Fleury absolutely gets some credit for that Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Why do hockey fans love the word elite? I follow many other sports like baseball, soccer, football and I rarely if ever hear “elite” used amongst fanbases in those sports. At least certainly not near as much as hockey. Seems like 50% of disagreements on any hockey forum I visit have to do with disagreeing on what elite means and who it applies to lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, dmann422 said: Why do hockey fans love the word elite? I follow many other sports like baseball, soccer, football and I rarely if ever hear “elite” used amongst fanbases in those sports. At least certainly not near as much as hockey. Seems like 50% of disagreements on any hockey forum I visit have to do with disagreeing on what elite means and who it applies to lol. Welcome to NJDevs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, dmann422 said: Why do hockey fans love the word elite? I follow many other sports like baseball, soccer, football and I rarely if ever hear “elite” used amongst fanbases in those sports. At least certainly not near as much as hockey. Seems like 50% of disagreements on any hockey forum I visit have to do with disagreeing on what elite means and who it applies to lol. This is a generational comment. Edited August 16, 2019 by mfitz804 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessus Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 The point isn't whether or not Binnington is an "elite" goalie. It's that he had an excellent (elite-level) season that carried over into the playoffs, and was a major reason the Blues won the Cup. Having a strong goalie is just as important as ever. Every single year, the Stanley Cup winning team has a goalie who performed very well during that season/playoff run. Who cares whether you can throw the label "elite" on Binnington or not? What matters is that his top level performance was critical to the Blues' success last season. Having an elite goalie means your goalie is more likely to have that type of season, which remains really important for winning a Cup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 If the point is having a good goalie is better than having a bad goalie, I think I can agree with that. Good goalies give up less goals than their team scores, teams that give up less goals than they score win more games. I hope that wasn’t the point trying to be made because that’s pretty much a basic summary of the entire game of hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) I don't know about you guys but I can't wait to play the Buffalo light sabers Edited August 16, 2019 by Satans Hockey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said: Except Fleury held down the fort for two rounds when Murray was hurt in 2017. So Fleury absolutely gets some credit for that Cup. Yeah Fleury was actually amazing then Murray came back from injury... Fleury had a so-so game and Murray was back in. I always felt bad for Fleury there he didnt deserved to be sitting at that time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 3 hours ago, dmann422 said: Why do hockey fans love the word elite? I follow many other sports like baseball, soccer, football and I rarely if ever hear “elite” used amongst fanbases in those sports. At least certainly not near as much as hockey. Seems like 50% of disagreements on any hockey forum I visit have to do with disagreeing on what elite means and who it applies to lol. I’m a big football fan, and we love to debate who’s elite and who’s not. Especially at QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, nessus said: The point isn't whether or not Binnington is an "elite" goalie. It's that he had an excellent (elite-level) season that carried over into the playoffs, and was a major reason the Blues won the Cup. Having a strong goalie is just as important as ever. Every single year, the Stanley Cup winning team has a goalie who performed very well during that season/playoff run. Who cares whether you can throw the label "elite" on Binnington or not? What matters is that his top level performance was critical to the Blues' success last season. Having an elite goalie means your goalie is more likely to have that type of season, which remains really important for winning a Cup. Thank you. This is literally all I was trying to say. At least that was my original point anyway. Edited August 16, 2019 by Nicomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Gotta admit, I’m diggin’ these: https://mobile.twitter.com/BuffaloSabres/status/1162367296733614080?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nhl.com%2Fnews%2Fbuffalo-sabres-commemorate-50th-anniversary-in-nhl-gold-jersey%2Fc-308547514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessus Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 4 hours ago, mfitz804 said: If the point is having a good goalie is better than having a bad goalie, I think I can agree with that. Good goalies give up less goals than their team scores, teams that give up less goals than they score win more games. I hope that wasn’t the point trying to be made because that’s pretty much a basic summary of the entire game of hockey. For sure, but I was more going for the idea that average or pretty good goaltending probably doesn't cut it for a Cup winning team, regardless of how good the rest of the team is. That's something that I don't think everyone agrees on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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