MadDog2020 Posted December 4, 2023 Author Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: Disrespecting the game is just another way of saying they're not prepared and not doing the basics. I think that pretty much aligns with the eye test. Making stupid decisions leading to turnovers, leaving guys alone in front of the net, giving up odd man rushes and breakways, etc. The real question is wtf are they doing about it? They're 20 games into the season.and things still aren't clicking. I feel like we've heard "puck management" over 9000 times in the last two seasons. These are coaching issues. If they still aren’t doing these things they know they need to do, why aren’t they doing them? Because maybe they stopped listening to the coach (and yes goaltending is also a huge issue for those who don’t understand mutual exclusivity). Edited December 4, 2023 by MadDog2020 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Have Another Donut Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 46 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: Disrespecting the game is just another way of saying they're not prepared and not doing the basics. I think that pretty much aligns with the eye test. Making stupid decisions leading to turnovers, leaving guys alone in front of the net, giving up odd man rushes and breakways, etc. The real question is wtf are they doing about it? They're 20 games into the season.and things still aren't clicking. I feel like we've heard "puck management" over 9000 times in the last two seasons. Not only disrespecting the game but specifically in this case disrespecting their opponents. I'm sure they thought this will be an easy win and we can get 7 or 8 goals on these slugs. I don't blame the coaching at all. You can tell them what to do 1000 times but THEY have to do it and it's not like the coach's are asking for anything other than common sense. Do you think these players are that stupid that they have to be constantly told to do basic defensive coverage? Hey Devs-the all out attack thing isn't working in Edmonton-and it ain't working in NJ either. Everybody knows the best way to beat the Devils is- counter attack/hard forecheck and physically pound them and since they are not a physical team-puck management is even more crucial. They have the talent-it's all about puck management-and that's on the players. A new coach isn't going to make any difference at all if they continue to mis-manage the puck. Did I forget to mention manage the puck already! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 8 minutes ago, Have Another Donut said: Not only disrespecting the game but specifically in this case disrespecting their opponents. I'm sure they thought this will be an easy win and we can get 7 or 8 goals on these slugs. I don't blame the coaching at all. You can tell them what to do 1000 times but THEY have to do it and it's not like the coach's are asking for anything other than common sense. Do you think these players are that stupid that they have to be constantly told to do basic defensive coverage? Hey Devs-the all out attack thing isn't working in Edmonton-and it ain't working in NJ either. Everybody knows the best way to beat the Devils is- counter attack/hard forecheck and physically pound them and since they are not a physical team-puck management is even more crucial. They have the talent-it's all about puck management-and that's on the players. A new coach isn't going to make any difference at all if they continue to mis-manage the puck. Did I forget to mention manage the puck already! Well the funny thing is that the media asked Ruff about taking the competition lightly and he shot it down...so....yea. Also, I agree with yo-- We here used to talk about that back a few years ago too when they would leave guys alone in front of the net with or leave the back door tap in play wide open for other teams and people would blame the coaching staff like that was a gap in their game plan or something. I do think it is on the coaches to make sure the team is prepared to play and have their mental game in order. There is more to being a coach than just the system they put in place and working on drills and there is only so much time you give them to work it out. It is a lot harder to fire the players than it is to fire the coach and coaching changes have shown it get results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 9 minutes ago, Have Another Donut said: Not only disrespecting the game but specifically in this case disrespecting their opponents. I'm sure they thought this will be an easy win and we can get 7 or 8 goals on these slugs. Based on comments from certain players—Jack, in particular—it’s apparent that this team is still patting itself on the back for what it achieved last season while simultaneously thinking that it can win merely by showing up, especially against opponents with inferior records and/or talent. What the Devils must realize sooner rather than later is that because of the enormous expectations surrounding them, they have been getting and will continue to get other teams’ best effort on a nightly basis. Failure to match this effort with their own will lead to losses more often than not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Guadana said: Nope, we are not. We are not very good or great, but everything is fine with this. Goaltending svck, that's all from something special. Goals against? Really bad. If You feal different than sorry, you have high expectations, average level of league is different. Summing isn't hard task. I just don't feel badly when I saw our mistakes. Because I saw how we lost our chances a lot. Sorry, but thats just fact. On other hand if Devils will fix goaltending at least to the average level (now Devils are 88.5%sv 5 on 5, should be 90.7%) and will start to use their chances in offensive zone, they will outcrush the league. There are plenty resources that show it. And MY eye test approve it. So like every person in the world I trust my personal own eye test, but im taling with grain of sault. But. Stats from different resources are helping me to understand that Devils are not bad in defensive zone. Yes, they are making more mistakes than they should, but summ of this mistakes isn't dramatic at all. When They will start to dominant again, it will takes from what they have now, may be better goalie, may be better performance from goalie we are having. It will make a job for our forwards easier. Healthy roster would help too. We were 7-1-2 in 2021/22 when Dougie, Nico and Jack were on the ice. And we are 10-4-1 this season when Jack, Timo and/or Nico were on the ice. There is no way we are third best in the league when it comes to allowing odd man rushes. I don't care what that chart says - whoever compiled it probably doesn't know what an odd man rush is. My eye test has shown me multiple odd man rushes given up, game after game after game. We aren't better than 30 other teams when it comes to that. Agree to disagree I suppose, but I can't even really take that seriously because it's just not true. Anyone with a set of working eyeballs can see it. 20 minutes ago, Have Another Donut said: Not only disrespecting the game but specifically in this case disrespecting their opponents. I'm sure they thought this will be an easy win and we can get 7 or 8 goals on these slugs. I don't blame the coaching at all. You can tell them what to do 1000 times but THEY have to do it and it's not like the coach's are asking for anything other than common sense. Do you think these players are that stupid that they have to be constantly told to do basic defensive coverage? Hey Devs-the all out attack thing isn't working in Edmonton-and it ain't working in NJ either. Everybody knows the best way to beat the Devils is- counter attack/hard forecheck and physically pound them and since they are not a physical team-puck management is even more crucial. They have the talent-it's all about puck management-and that's on the players. A new coach isn't going to make any difference at all if they continue to mis-manage the puck. Did I forget to mention manage the puck already! I think this is a good point. The old adage, "coaches coach and players play". You have to wonder if the players just aren't as good as we thought, or if they're just executing poorly. To me it's the latter. These players being as young as they are and most of them not having one cup or really having much. Playoff experience you'd still expect them to be hungry, but I'm wondering if they really thought going into this season things would just come easy for them and then sort of be able to Coast into an easy playoff berth. Clearly that's not the case and I think they really need to buckle down and give a full effort each night, which starts with being prepared and coming out to start each game and not giving up the first goal like we have so often and so early. To me it's just an intention to detail problem, which thankfully I think can be rectified. The leaders on this team like Nico, Palat, and even Meier to a degree really need to step up. It sucks that Dougie is out now but I would look to him for that leadership too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said: There is no way we are third best in the league when it comes to allowing odd man rushes. I don't care what that chart says - whoever compiled it probably doesn't know what an odd man rush is. My eye test has shown me multiple odd man rushes given up, game after game after game. We aren't better than 30 other teams when it comes to that. Agree to disagree I suppose, but I can't even really take that seriously because it's just not true. Anyone with a set of working eyeballs can see it. I think this is a good point. The old adage, "coaches coach and players play". You have to wonder if the players just aren't as good as we thought, or if they're just executing poorly. To me it's the latter. These players being as young as they are and most of them not having one cup or really having much. Playoff experience you'd still expect them to be hungry, but I'm wondering if they really thought going into this season things would just come easy for them and then sort of be able to Coast into an easy playoff berth. Clearly that's not the case and I think they really need to buckle down and give a full effort each night, which starts with being prepared and coming out to start each game and not giving up the first goal like we have so often and so early. To me it's just an intention to detail problem, which thankfully I think can be rectified. The leaders on this team like Nico, Palat, and even Meier to a degree really need to step up. It sucks that Dougie is out now but I would look to him for that leadership too. Other site. Only three guys with 10! games ahead of him, other played less. It’s about rushes to be true. yes, every man who says that Devils are making MORE mistakes that turn into rushes - making mistakes. You too. Your eyes test is working well. They do, but they are on the positive side of the league. Some of rushes are really bad, but goalie is for stopping some pucks at least. And our forwards aren’t using their chances like they should. They had much more opportunities. They are 13th in HDCA and 18th in HDSA, that means if something is going on - it is more danger per situation, but amount of this more dangerous situations is ok. People wants to fix defense and defense should be better, but goalies and missed opportunities are bigger problems. Edited December 4, 2023 by Guadana 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Have Another Donut Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said: Well the funny thing is that the media asked Ruff about taking the competition lightly and he shot it down...so....yea. Also, I agree with yo-- We here used to talk about that back a few years ago too when they would leave guys alone in front of the net with or leave the back door tap in play wide open for other teams and people would blame the coaching staff like that was a gap in their game plan or something. I do think it is on the coaches to make sure the team is prepared to play and have their mental game in order. There is more to being a coach than just the system they put in place and working on drills and there is only so much time you give them to work it out. It is a lot harder to fire the players than it is to fire the coach and coaching changes have shown it get results. Well Ruff wasn't taking them lightly but the players did.....It may actually be a good thing they lost to SJ rather than winning game where they played sloppy D and got away with it. Learn more from losing than winning as they say- I'll say this about the Hughes bros. Jack and Luke should watch Quinn-the guy is very underrated-almost never makes a mistake. Knows when to push and when not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Have Another Donut said: Well Ruff wasn't taking them lightly but the players did.....It may actually be a good thing they lost to SJ rather than winning game where they played sloppy D and got away with it. Learn more from losing than winning as they say- I'll say this about the Hughes bros. Jack and Luke should watch Quinn-the guy is very underrated-almost never makes a mistake. Knows when to push and when not to. I agree, and I am not an advanced stats hater but I don't care how much the advanced stats say NJ should have won 9/10 simulations(or whatever) because the reality is they lost and it's not exactly an outlier like it was last season where the stats would show they should have won but didn't-- last season they were winning a hell of a lot more than they were losing. I am not sure why you're saying that part in the second half because Luke is still in his first NHL season and Jack almost never makes a mistake like he did the other night. Jack is the only reason they're competitive for a large portion of most games, so I'll forgive him for one isolated mistake while probably feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders to try and drag this team to wins kicking and screaming. I also don't think Quinn is underrated anymore. People have been talking about him a lot since last season when he was getting Norris votes and he's looked at as a massive reason the team is doing what it is this year along with Demko's return to form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Have Another Donut said: Jack and Luke should watch Quinn-the guy is very underrated-almost never makes a mistake. Knows when to push and when not to. Jack will get a great view of Quinn, because he’s gonna be matched up against him all night. Hopefully Jack comes out on top. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Have Another Donut said: I'll say this about the Hughes bros. Jack and Luke should watch Quinn-the guy is very underrated-almost never makes a mistake. Knows when to push and when not to. Quinn is 4 years older than Luke, and is playing in his 6th season. 1 hour ago, NJDevils1214 said: I am not sure why you're saying that part in the second half because Luke is still in his first NHL season and Jack almost never makes a mistake like he did the other night. Jack is the only reason they're competitive for a large portion of most games, so I'll forgive him for one isolated mistake while probably feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders to try and drag this team to wins kicking and screaming. I also don't think Quinn is underrated anymore. People have been talking about him a lot since last season when he was getting Norris votes and he's looked at as a massive reason the team is doing what it is this year along with Demko's return to form. Basically this. Jack barely ever has off nights like he did against SJ, so not sure why he needs to “watch Quinn” or whatever. Please just keep doing exactly what you’re doing Jack. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Nicomo said: Jack barely ever has off nights like he did against SJ, so not sure why he needs to “watch Quinn” or whatever. Please just keep doing exactly what you’re doing Jack. I was in the building, so I’ll take the blame for Jack’s off night 🤪, during which he was still the Devils’ best player. If his bad games still entail him racking up points and helping his team, I won’t complain, and I don’t know that he needs to imitate Quinn, as he’s doing just fine being himself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Have Another Donut Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 6 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said: I agree, and I am not an advanced stats hater but I don't care how much the advanced stats say NJ should have won 9/10 simulations(or whatever) because the reality is they lost and it's not exactly an outlier like it was last season where the stats would show they should have won but didn't-- last season they were winning a hell of a lot more than they were losing. I am not sure why you're saying that part in the second half because Luke is still in his first NHL season and Jack almost never makes a mistake like he did the other night. Jack is the only reason they're competitive for a large portion of most games, so I'll forgive him for one isolated mistake while probably feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders to try and drag this team to wins kicking and screaming. I also don't think Quinn is underrated anymore. People have been talking about him a lot since last season when he was getting Norris votes and he's looked at as a massive reason the team is doing what it is this year along with Demko's return to form. No doubt Jack is brilliant and is arguably the best Devil ever but he does try to do too much by himself-like skate thru 4 or 5 defenders. He needs to trust his line mates more. More give and go's. Lots of times they are almost standing still watching him and kinda get caught flat flooted if the puck goes the other way. Yes, I am nit picking here on Luke- he's so good you almost expect him to be as good as Quinn now. The one thing I would like to see him do more is get the puck out of the D zone quicker. He tends to stick handle a bit too much when quick pass out of the zone would be less dangerous. In general the whole team seems somewhat out of sync. I guess with all injuries/lineup changes that's gonna happen. Hopefully they start to jell soon. Goaltending-I don't think there's anyone available who's much better (if at all) then what we have now. Gotta wait see at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max20Characters Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 4 hours ago, Have Another Donut said: No doubt Jack is brilliant and is arguably the best Devil ever but he does try to do too much by himself-like skate thru 4 or 5 defenders. He needs to trust his line mates more. More give and go's. Lots of times they are almost standing still watching him and kinda get caught flat flooted if the puck goes the other way. Yes, I am nit picking here on Luke- he's so good you almost expect him to be as good as Quinn now. The one thing I would like to see him do more is get the puck out of the D zone quicker. He tends to stick handle a bit too much when quick pass out of the zone would be less dangerous. Jack reminds me of Kovalchuk when he plays like this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 Haula is back: https://newjerseyhockeynow.com/2023/12/05/devils-daily-a-welcomed-return-devils-prospect-invited-to-wjc-camp/?fbclid=IwAR2WlSL5GGreRUAnWrdfqPoSGsry88DZls0Pxypsk3JzeLBKP7ifwEk3U8M_aem_AYRzE2HX9-X66aoOljhW3_Kpbe8m-SB8AH6NJ1Wo4Df9C9c6Zzg206Jsi8Rp8N0Eejw 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 So with the cap projected to be about $87.7 million for 2024-25, Devils aren't in bad shape: About $20 million to work with. UFAs: Toffoli, Tierney, Miller, Smith, Nosek (I'd happily take Toffoli back but depends on what he's looking for...if Holtz can continue to develop, Fitz may have to roll the dice that Holtz can permanently join the Top 6. Miller would make for nice D-depth but with Nemec now about to get on-the-job training, can't imagine Miller would want to be a 7th-type) RFAs: McLeod, Mercer, Schmid (Curious to see what McLeod would want. Dawson appears to getting his season back on track...10 points over his last 12 GP) Some Utes/depth guys too who are up for renewals too. Basically, depending on who's actually available (and if there's a guy who actually makes real SENSE), IF Fitz decides to add payroll in the form of a goalie this offseason, he can probably pull it off. For those who are curious, if Fitz ever decided to buy VV out this offseason, the dead hits aren't brutal...$1,466,667 for 2024-25, and $966,667 for 2025-26. I'd be surprised if it ever came to that, more just posting that info for those wondering. And the above is not me waving any white flags on the 2023-24 season...Devils are still right there, as far as most of the Metro goes...only the Rangers have run away and hid. More just showing with the announced cap projections, Fitz should have the means to addre$$ some of this team's issues. Will be tricky to make major in-season moves (especially if he has to take on any money), but he should have some flexibility this offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Different resources. different metrics, same result. But yeah, somehow Devils are worser than opponents. Its goaltending and missing opportunities. Sorry for your eye test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 26 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: So with the cap projected to be about $87.7 million for 2024-25, Devils aren't in bad shape: About $20 million to work with. UFAs: Toffoli, Tierney, Miller, Smith, Nosek (I'd happily take Toffoli back but depends on what he's looking for...if Holtz can continue to develop, Fitz may have to roll the dice that Holtz can permanently join the Top 6. Miller would make for nice D-depth but with Nemec now about to get on-the-job training, can't imagine Miller would want to be a 7th-type) RFAs: McLeod, Mercer, Schmid (Curious to see what McLeod would want. Dawson appears to getting his season back on track...10 points over his last 12 GP) Some Utes/depth guys too who are up for renewals too. Basically, depending on who's actually available (and if there's a guy who actually makes real SENSE), IF Fitz decides to add payroll in the form of a goalie this offseason, he can probably pull it off. For those who are curious, if Fitz ever decided to buy VV out this offseason, the dead hits aren't brutal...$1,466,667 for 2024-25, and $966,667 for 2025-26. I'd be surprised if it ever came to that, more just posting that info for those wondering. And the above is not me waving any white flags on the 2023-24 season...Devils are still right there, as far as most of the Metro goes...only the Rangers have run away and hid. More just showing with the announced cap projections, Fitz should have the means to addre$$ some of this team's issues. Will be tricky to make major in-season moves (especially if he has to take on any money), but he should have some flexibility this offseason. I believe Fitz will sign Toffoli(less chances) or will find another vet(more chances). Holtz is the fourth Devil in 10 years to score 10 goals in his first 50 games after Bratt, Sharangovich and Mercer. But I dont think they will rush him as top-6 forward. Mcelod should start to talk about 2.8+. He is now looking like a ok to solid third line center and he is playing meaningful role. I would wait arond 3 mil for now, will see how he will produce. God, I hope, he will sign or trade good goalie on a reasonable deal. Anyway Devils have huge cap hit to find vet for top-9 and for gaolie and not hurt to the future signs of young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 59 minutes ago, Guadana said: I believe Fitz will sign Toffoli(less chances) or will find another vet(more chances). Holtz is the fourth Devil in 10 years to score 10 goals in his first 50 games after Bratt, Sharangovich and Mercer. But I dont think they will rush him as top-6 forward. Mcelod should start to talk about 2.8+. He is now looking like a ok to solid third line center and he is playing meaningful role. I would wait arond 3 mil for now, will see how he will produce. God, I hope, he will sign or trade good goalie on a reasonable deal. Anyway Devils have huge cap hit to find vet for top-9 and for gaolie and not hurt to the future signs of young players. Even with Holtz progression, I would personally like to keep Toffoli to keep 3x lines with good performers. Less pressure on Holtz to HAVE to fill in and allows flexibility 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smelly Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) https://www.nj.com/devils/2023/12/6-devils-trade-targets-to-consider-as-injuries-mount-backend-struggles-continue.html Paywall so I won’t cut and paste the analysis. Gibson Markstrom and Tanev Walker Kahkonen Lyubushkin Edited December 5, 2023 by smelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Guadana said: Different resources. different metrics, same result. But yeah, somehow Devils are worser than opponents. Its goaltending and missing opportunities. Sorry for your eye test. What are the stats for odd man rushes that are scored on against us? Obviously 3.41 a game isn't bad when looking at that chart but if opposing teams are scoring something like 2 goals on 3.41 rushes against us than it makes it feel like we are a lot worse at odd man rushes against then we actually are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Satans Hockey said: What are the stats for odd man rushes that are scored on against us? Obviously 3.41 a game isn't bad when looking at that chart but if opposing teams are scoring something like 2 goals on 3.41 rushes against us than it makes it feel like we are a lot worse at odd man rushes against then we actually are. I think this is what is indicated by the numbers, but there is more going on with the D than just giving odd man rushes and the goalies are still not good(not mutually exclusive). I saw some stuff on reddit in the last couple days, and I am generally an advanced starlts subscriber, where the advanced stats say that NJD defense is actually not bad but it's really not passing they eye test for me so... It is what it is. We're all yelling at brick walls back and forth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Satans Hockey said: What are the stats for odd man rushes that are scored on against us? Obviously 3.41 a game isn't bad when looking at that chart but if opposing teams are scoring something like 2 goals on 3.41 rushes against us than it makes it feel like we are a lot worse at odd man rushes against then we actually are. We are bad, but goalies should stop the pucks. VV is awful in HDSV%. Both aren’t facing a lot, they are facing below average load. 1 hour ago, jagknife said: Even with Holtz progression, I would personally like to keep Toffoli to keep 3x lines with good performers. Less pressure on Holtz to HAVE to fill in and allows flexibility I would love to save Toffoli, but it’s a his chance to sign the deal of his life. He is old and he already won the cup. If he will agree on 2-3 years deal, I will be excited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilMinder Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Jack Hughes? BIG Nibblers guy.Learn more about Jack before the first official Hughes Bowl (w/ @JLazzy23) pic.twitter.com/y28Im14LjS— B/R Open Ice (@BR_OpenIce) December 5, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 So Sal reads the board here? Lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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