2018 Offseason Thread

['7']

Curious what kind of reputation has Brodeur established yet around the league regarding his front office work. I understand it's not a particularly long resume...but are other clubs eager to have him join their front office? Is there genuine interest in him? I honestly don't know one way or the other

[Daniel]

5 minutes ago, '7' said:

Curious what kind of reputation has Brodeur established yet around the league regarding his front office work. I understand it's not a particularly long resume...but are other clubs eager to have him join their front office? Is there genuine interest in him? I honestly don't know one way or the other

From what I've read, he was pretty respected in St. Louis and it seems like they wanted him there.  The fans liked him too, since he seemed to have turned around the goalies a couple of years ago, even if only by luck. 

[NJDevils1214]

I am doing some fantasy hockey things and I am really surprised that so many rankings don't even have Hall in the top 10. Some have McKinnion just out of the top 5 though or just outside though. 

[bobilly45]

6 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Agree totally. It's only the same team in name. The administration is all new guard, Shero's people. While I am sure Shero realizes the significance Marty had for this franchise, he wasn't here for it. He didn't have that relationship with him. 

If Lou was still here, and he decided to bring Marty in (and holding aside any "Lou didn't know what he was doing anymore' stuff), I would feel more confident because he knew Marty and knew what his capabilities were and what his weaknesses were. If Ray were to bring him in, its probably just because he's a former player (probably the most significant one, but still) and the fans would like it. 

I don't find the latter to be a very good reason for giving a guy a job. Of course, there remains the possibility that he's REALLY good at being an assistant GM, and is totally capable of filling such a position. 

Now, if we need an Alumni type dude, 100% I'm in. I love when guys are still "around the team" but not controlling our destiny. Grant Marshall and Colin White are good examples. 

If we needed a goalie coach, we could do a hell of a lot worse. 

But I'm not sold on his upper management abilities, and I am 100% sure there is zero relation between a hugely successful career playing hockey and a successful career managing a team. 

I agree there's 0 relation between hhof player and being a good GM.  It's running a business which is something most players dont have any experience in. 

I actually dont think having Marty as a goalie coach would be all that good for Cory.  They are the 2 opposite style of goalies, cory butterfly, Brodeur hybrid.  He would be the perfect coach for kk who plays the same hybrid style.

[jagknife]

Off topic but hell a lot asked for it:

Future first round draft picks have arrived!!!

Won’t let me upload the photo but they’re doing well and mom’s finally getting some sleep!

[mfitz804]

8 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Off topic but hell a lot asked for it:

Future first round draft picks have arrived!!!

Won’t let me upload the photo but they’re doing well and mom’s finally getting some sleep!

Congrats, brother. 

[Nicomo]

9 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Off topic but hell a lot asked for it:

Future first round draft picks have arrived!!!

Won’t let me upload the photo but they’re doing well and mom’s finally getting some sleep!

Congrats man. My cousin has twins and it’s a pretty cool thing. Lot of work though, obviously. Good luck!

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, jagknife said:

Off topic but hell a lot asked for it:

Future first round draft picks have arrived!!!

Won’t let me upload the photo but they’re doing well and mom’s finally getting some sleep!

Congrats and best of luck jag! Awesome stuff. 🤟

[eldon]

Two more Devil fans. Get those matching NJD onesies.

Congrats!

[SterioDesign]

if i had to pick a player to bring in for our management or coaching staff or wtv out of all our past player it would be Elias and it's not even close. He was a true true true team player while i feel Marty was a me first type of guy

[aclc79]

12 hours ago, bobilly45 said:

I agree there's 0 relation between hhof player and being a good GM.  It's running a business which is something most players dont have any experience in. 

I actually dont think having Marty as a goalie coach would be all that good for Cory.  They are the 2 opposite style of goalies, cory butterfly, Brodeur hybrid.  He would be the perfect coach for kk who plays the same hybrid style.

When we saw KK down in the AHL, if given the opportunity, KK handled the stick real well.  CS could use some work in that regard.

[mfitz804]

7 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

if i had to pick a player to bring in for our management or coaching staff or wtv out of all our past player it would be Elias and it's not even close. He was a true true true team player while i feel Marty was a me first type of guy

Yeah, especially that time he fired his agent and re-signed at a discount. What a jerk. 

[DevsMan84]

11 hours ago, jagknife said:

Off topic but hell a lot asked for it:

Future first round draft picks have arrived!!!

Won’t let me upload the photo but they’re doing well and mom’s finally getting some sleep!

Congrats!

43 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Yeah, especially that time he fired his agent and re-signed at a discount. What a jerk. 

Have you read Marty's book?  A large chunk of it was him going on and on about what a great guy he is.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

As far as Marty goes, there's fans who don't like him (partly because of some of his quotes and how he came off as his career here wound down) and now remember him as this borderline horrible "me me me" guy, and then there's the fans that thought he walked on water and could never do wrong even when he was completely delusional and in denial about the fact that he wasn't very good anymore.  It is ironic that a guy who was a big part of winning three Cups, became a H-H-O-Famer almost exclusively for what he accomplished HERE, and had such an insanely long peak polarizes fans the way he does, and if he had gone out a little differently (less abrasively), you probably have more people in the middle.  Though I think players often get held to a ridiculously unfair standard when it comes to how they conduct themselves (with every last word they utter getting picked apart to death), Marty did bring some of the negativity that some fans feel about him unto himself.   

I don't think Shero is really at all interested in Marty coming here anyway...I'm guessing he doesn't think bringing him here is necessary.  But it goes back to the same thing:  if this ever did happen (I still think he's Islander/Lou-bound eventually), it's only because Shero is convinced that he can be a help.  Marty's past as a player and whatever good and bad traits he had as a player won't be what sways Shero in one direction over the other (nor should it). 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Crisis]

Anybody know what the latest is with Miles Wood?  Is there an arbitration hearing coming up or did I miss it?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Anybody know what the latest is with Miles Wood?  Is there an arbitration hearing coming up or did I miss it?

He's not arb-eligible yet...needs one more season (https://www.capfriendly.com/players/miles-wood).  Basically the Devils hold all of the cards.  I'm guessing he gets a 2-3 year deal, maybe $2 million per or a little more. 

[SterioDesign]

2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Yeah, especially that time he fired his agent and re-signed at a discount. What a jerk. 

did i say he's a jerk or did you just made an outstanding jump to conclusions there? lol 

[Chuck the Duck]

10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

if i had to pick a player to bring in for our management or coaching staff or wtv out of all our past player it would be Elias and it's not even close. He was a true true true team player while i feel Marty was a me first type of guy

While I don't necessarily disagree on Elias, I do disagree about Marty.  If he was a me first type of guy, he would have run out and gotten the biggest FA contract he could at first chance.  Hell, he would have at least had an agent advising him through the process.  Instead, he worked with Lou and took hometown discounts to stay in NJ so as to not hamstring the team's internal budget, when he clearly could have gotten more money elsewhere.   He could have gone home to MTL and been a god with more money in hand than Scrooge McDuck, but stayed here.

I think most of the negative perception comes from the fact that he held on a year too long in his quest for 700 wins, plus the move to STL for the handful of games.  I don't begrudge him or any player for continuing their career when there is someone out there willing to pay them to play a game, which STL was willing to do for whatever reason they had that season.  It may come off as selfish, but for an ultra competitive athlete that was one of the greatest of all time at his position, I'm sure it's not easy to look inward and determine that the game has passed you by. 

Marty wasn't always the most likeable, especially at the end as CR76 pointed out, but he really wasn't a me first guy either. 

[Daniel]

10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

if i had to pick a player to bring in for our management or coaching staff or wtv out of all our past player it would be Elias and it's not even close. He was a true true true team player while i feel Marty was a me first type of guy

I don't think a "me first" attitude as a player has anything to do with whether someone would be a good executive or coach.

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

As far as Marty goes, there's fans who don't like him (partly because of some of his quotes and how he came off as his career here wound down) and now remember him as this borderline horrible "me me me" guy, and then there's the fans that thought he walked on water and could never do wrong even when he was completely delusional and in denial about the fact that he wasn't very good anymore.  It is ironic that a guy who was a big part of winning three Cups, became a H-H-O-Famer almost exclusively for what he accomplished HERE, and had such an insanely long peak polarizes fans the way he does, and if he had gone out a little differently (less abrasively), you probably have more people in the middle.  Though I think players often get held to a ridiculously unfair standard when it comes to how they conduct themselves (with every last word they utter getting picked apart to death), Marty did bring some of the negativity that some fans feel about him unto himself.   

I don't think Shero is really at all interested in Marty coming here anyway...I'm guessing he doesn't think bringing him here is necessary.  But it goes back to the same thing:  if this ever did happen (I still think he's Islander/Lou-bound eventually), it's only because Shero is convinced that he can be a help.  Marty's past as a player and whatever good and bad traits he had as a player won't be what sways Shero in one direction over the other (nor should it). 

I think it's no secret that I am not exactly a Marty guy.  Fact is I didn't care for him even when we were winning cups.  He always came off as a me-first type of guy in his quotes throughout the years.  If you read several quotes from him over the years, it always came off as the team won largely because of him and when the team lost, it was because it was the entire team.  I think he wasn't quite as universally loved throughout the years like people think he was but a lot of people who think like me (and there are plenty who thought worse of him) bit their tongue as he was helping us win games.

All that last year did was just shine a spotlight on how he has acted for most of his career.  Devils were no longer a guranteed-playoffs team and less fans were willing to let his comments slide since we were winning.

[DevsMan84]

14 minutes ago, Chuck the Duck said:

While I don't necessarily disagree on Elias, I do disagree about Marty.  If he was a me first type of guy, he would have run out and gotten the biggest FA contract he could at first chance.  Hell, he would have at least had an agent advising him through the process.  Instead, he worked with Lou and took hometown discounts to stay in NJ so as to not hamstring the team's internal budget, when he clearly could have gotten more money elsewhere.   He could have gone home to MTL and been a god with more money in hand than Scrooge McDuck, but stayed here.

I think most of the negative perception comes from the fact that he held on a year too long in his quest for 700 wins, plus the move to STL for the handful of games.  I don't begrudge him or any player for continuing their career when there is someone out there willing to pay them to play a game, which STL was willing to do for whatever reason they had that season.  It may come off as selfish, but for an ultra competitive athlete that was one of the greatest of all time at his position, I'm sure it's not easy to look inward and determine that the game has passed you by. 

Marty wasn't always the most likeable, especially at the end as CR76 pointed out, but he really wasn't a me first guy either. 

Yes, it is true he could have gotten more money somewhere else.  Marty mentioned that in his book too; several times as a matter of fact.

But keep in mind that there are different types of me-first kind of guys.  There are guys who are literally all about making as much money as they can in their careers.  I can't say Marty was that guy.  Then there are guys who want to achieve every single possible personal accomplishment they can in their career, even if it was to the detriment of the rest of the team.  Then there were guys who just thought whatever they do is gold.  Those last two are what Marty was.

[SterioDesign]

Don't get me wrong Marty will always be my all time favourite player but DevsMan84 covered most of the points i'd make. And it's true that there's many type of me first guy and for Marty for the longest time sure he wanted the team to win cause it meant he was winning too being the #1 goalie. And obviously every single player want to personally win, its their dream but some are way more selfless. At the end Cory was clearly the best option in net and Marty didn't take it too well to be pushed aside for the best of the team.

Also sleeping with your sister-in-law is not the most "team first" mentality when you are married with kids lol  

[Chuck the Duck]

2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Yes, it is true he could have gotten more money somewhere else.  Marty mentioned that in his book too; several times as a matter of fact.

But keep in mind that there are different types of me-first kind of guys.  There are guys who are literally all about making as much money as they can in their careers.  I can't say Marty was that guy.  Then there are guys who want to achieve every single possible personal accomplishment they can in their career, even if it was to the detriment of the rest of the team.  Then there were guys who just thought whatever they do is gold.  Those last two are what Marty was.

Any athlete on Marty's level is going to want to achieve every goal they set for themselves at all costs.  That's what makes them great.  The problem is, they can't see the decline in their own play.  It happens in every sport, because these guys are trained not to block out the negatives, which Marty was great at both in game and outside of it.  It's the first thing sports psychologists talk about when they work with players and cite as main contributing factor to the greatness of certain athletes.  I doubt Marty ever saw his own play as a detriment to the team, even at the end.  I don't really think of it as selfishness, I think of it as the way they are trained as top athletes.  That's why its on the management of the organization to take those decisions out of the hands of the great players, which Lou and/or Hynes failed to do during Cory's 1st season here.   

And, as far as the book thing, its a pro athlete writing about himself in the middle of his career, with little outside help (if Michael Farber did anything to write that book, I'd be shocked since it was so poorly worded/written).  What did you expect?    

3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Don't get me wrong Marty will always be my all time favourite player but DevsMan84 covered most of the points i'd make. And it's true that there's many type of me first guy and for Marty for the longest time sure he wanted the team to win cause it meant he was winning too being the #1 goalie. And obviously every single player want to personally win, its their dream but some are way more selfless. At the end Cory was clearly the best option in net and Marty didn't take it too well to be pushed aside for the best of the team.

Also sleeping with your sister-in-law is not the most "team first" mentality when you are married with kids lol  

Can't really argue with that one

[DevsMan84]

17 minutes ago, Chuck the Duck said:

Any athlete on Marty's level is going to want to achieve every goal they set for themselves at all costs.  That's what makes them great.  The problem is, they can't see the decline in their own play.  It happens in every sport, because these guys are trained not to block out the negatives, which Marty was great at both in game and outside of it.  It's the first thing sports psychologists talk about when they work with players and cite as main contributing factor to the greatness of certain athletes.  I doubt Marty ever saw his own play as a detriment to the team, even at the end.  I don't really think of it as selfishness, I think of it as the way they are trained as top athletes.  That's why its on the management of the organization to take those decisions out of the hands of the great players, which Lou and/or Hynes failed to do during Cory's 1st season here.   

And, as far as the book thing, its a pro athlete writing about himself in the middle of his career, with little outside help (if Michael Farber did anything to write that book, I'd be shocked since it was so poorly worded/written).  What did you expect?    

Can't really argue with that one

That's fine, but it is also an excuse.  I don't care if you are the greatest ever at anything; if you are going to have that line of thinking then yeah you are going to rub plenty of people the wrong way.

As for the book, well isn't that a little contradictory as to what we are even debating?  Is he supposed to get a free pass from him being me-first just because he co-wrote a book about himself?  We criticize other players who write books to pump their own tires (Avery comes to mind) yet Marty's book is A-OK.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

39 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I think it's no secret that I am not exactly a Marty guy.  Fact is I didn't care for him even when we were winning cups.  He always came off as a me-first type of guy in his quotes throughout the years.  If you read several quotes from him over the years, it always came off as the team won largely because of him and when the team lost, it was because it was the entire team.  I think he wasn't quite as universally loved throughout the years like people think he was but a lot of people who think like me (and there are plenty who thought worse of him) bit their tongue as he was helping us win games.

All that last year did was just shine a spotlight on how he has acted for most of his career.  Devils were no longer a guranteed-playoffs team and less fans were willing to let his comments slide since we were winning.

I can't really remember Marty saying anything in his prime that really bugged me that much.  I do remember being frustrated with his inconsistency in 2000-01, to the point where I started calling him "Mediocre Marty", and I was really getting on him at times during the playoffs that year. 

I did find his last couple of seasons here (and things that he'd say) to be quite aggravating.  As annoying as he could be during his last year, he was definitely enabled...Lou and deBoer kept giving him this undeserved White Knight treatment (and as we know there were even insane fans who ignored Marty's mediocre GAA and save% that final year, and kept saying "Marty knows how to win!").  Cory was incredibly even-keeled throughout all of that...I really felt for him that season. 

I do agree with Chuck's take, that I don't think it's pure selfishness as much as it is being so competitive and confident that the Marty-types simply can't see what everyone else is seeing, and they truly believe that they can somehow prove to everyone that there's something left it in the tank.  I kinda remember Marty even saying with the Blues that he needed more playing time and wasn't sure what his future held.  Some of these guys really are that delusional...what makes that sad is that such delusion can make former greats look really bad on AND off the ice, and you're left with some unpleasant memories of a guy who simply hung on too long and didn't know when to stop.  Like Chuck said, their decision to make, but sometimes others need to make the decision for them. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976