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Hughes or Kakko

Hughes or Kakko?  

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  1. 1. Who should Shero pick?



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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

And in Hughes' case, he was born on May 14, 2001.  The Devils were early in their ECF Finals against the Pens (up 1-0 for the series), on their way to reaching another SCF when he was born.  I remember it clearly and was quickly approaching my 31st birthday when that was happening.  And to Hughes, that might as well have been 50 years ago.  I have no idea where I was going with that one, but goddammit...

 

He was born literally the day before I graduated from college. I’m old lol.

Edited by MadDog2020

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Just now, MadDog2020 said:

He was born literally the day before I graduated from college. I’m old lol.

One of Hughes' teammates this year is a 17-year-old kid born on Halloween in 2001.  His name?  Ryder Rolston.  Guess who his daddy is...yikes...

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Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

One of Hughes' teammates this year is a 17-year-old kid born on Halloween in 2001.  His name?  Ryder Rolston.  Guess who his daddy is...yikes...

Yep, I think he’s eligible for next year’s draft. Insane lol.

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Just now, MadDog2020 said:

Yep, I think he’s eligible for next year’s draft. Insane lol.

And the Devils better not take him.  Because then I'll be reminded of both Brian "Roger Dorn" Rolston AND Michael "8 Goals in his last 85 GP" Ryder.  His middle name is probably Stephane, only now he spells it Stefan...bleech...

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24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

One of Hughes' teammates this year is a 17-year-old kid born on Halloween in 2001.  His name?  Ryder Rolston.  Guess who his daddy is...yikes...

Albert Einstein?!?!?

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I mean, seriously the Devils can really ease Hughes in. Give Zajac and Nico the toughs, and let Hughes run rampant on weaker competition. 17 min a night with pp2 time is what I would do

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I'd prefer Kakko but I think Hughes is great and IMO there's no doubt they're taking him. USA Hockey, Shero, Hynes, the failed Zacha at 2C experiment...it's a need and I bet they view Hughes as their guy.

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Not that this would ever happen, but just food for thought, a fun off-season exercise. 

 

What pieces would it take for us to convince the Rags to hand us their #2? 

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Just now, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Not that this would ever happen, but just food for thought, a fun off-season exercise. 

 

What pieces would it take for us to convince the Rags to hand us their #2? 

A ski mask, a gun, and compromising pictures of Jeff Gorton.

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16 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

A ski mask, a gun, and compromising pictures of Jeff Gorton.

Lord know making Jim Dolan look like a piece a sh!t wouldn’t be enough, considering he’s been doing that well on his own for decades

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1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

He missed 3 games at the World Juniors for I believe a minor wrist injury, still came back from it though and played in a majority of USA's games and was point per game. Other than that he doesn't have any injury history of note, which is good as well.

Thank you

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

He was born literally the day before I graduated from college. I’m old lol.

Old?   You're a kid

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Hughes only. If we didn't pick him, Rag$ would scoop him up and we'll be forever remembered as the team that passed on Jack Hughes. No thi9nks! Live & die with Jack.

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1 hour ago, Marshall said:

I'd prefer Kakko but I think Hughes is great and IMO there's no doubt they're taking him. USA Hockey, Shero, Hynes, the failed Zacha at 2C experiment...it's a need and I bet they view Hughes as their guy.

Honestly, don't think you can go wrong with either one.  

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18 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

Hughes only. If we didn't pick him, Rag$ would scoop him up and we'll be forever remembered as the team that passed on Jack Hughes. No thi9nks! Live & die with Jack.

And, if Kakko turns into Michael Jordan while Hughes is Hakeem Olajuwon?  Not that Olajuwon was not great, but the only 2 seasons he won titles was when Jordan was pretending to be a baseball player.  Or worse, as in Sam Bowie?

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1 hour ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Not that this would ever happen, but just food for thought, a fun off-season exercise. 

 

What pieces would it take for us to convince the Rags to hand us their #2? 

A trade down or an outright trade?  For a trade down, Rangers likely not giving up much.  These guys are that close.  It's like comparing a million dollars worth of gold or a million dollars worth of diamonds.  

To trade outright so the Devils have 1 and 2?  Don't think it is possible. 

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4 hours ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

It's insane this kid is in between both my son's ages.

Anyway, Nolan Patrick's injury history was most definitely a factor during that draft.  I read Hughes missed the World Juniors (was it?) with an injury.

What is his injury history?

Speaking of Nolan, looks like the Flyers are already dialing back their expectations a bit:

https://www.philly.com/flyers/nolan-patrick-chuck-fletcher-scott-gordon-second-line-center-20190408.html

Starting to think that maybe this kid wasn't quite ready to jump into the NHL...not like Nico was, anyway.  Doesn't mean Nolan can't still justify being picked where he was in time, but I'm sure the Flyer faithful are getting impatient.   

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Posted (edited)

I completely disagree with the "I'd rather have the 2nd pick that way we can avoid embarrassment" take (saw this one: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/maybe-winning-the-nhl-draft-lottery-wasnt-as-big-of-a-win-for-devils-134219748.html). It is such a playing scared mentality. You want the top pick, because as an organization you should WANT to be the one who has the challenge to research and make the correct and right decision. It is a great opportunity to test your GM, scouts, analytics department and organization from top to bottom and find out what you have in terms of people/process for player evaluation/development and then get a high impact testable result.  This is in no way a 50/50 coin flip......It might look like that for the fans and the draft "experts", but for an organization it is an opportunity to prove that your process works. If you choose wrong it is not "aww shucks that was a coin flip" it is we have to make changes. And the 2nd pick isn't "no pressure because the public says it is a 1-2 draft" (see elias petterson).

 

 

Edited by Steadevils
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Don't think not coming up with the "100% right" pick means that the process is automatically broken, and changes must ensue.  Though this feels like a 1 - 1A draft, right now it does seem like Hughes is the clear #1 in a lot of circles...seems like every take that I read just raves about him.  If the Devils take Hughes, and Kakko turns out to be the better player (sh!t happens), then I don't think the Devils should be killed for getting it "wrong".  Or that their methods are flawed. 

I do agree that I'd rather have first dibs...just ask the Flyers. 

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14 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Don't think not coming up with the "100% right" pick means that the process is automatically broken, and changes must ensue.  Though this feels like a 1 - 1A draft, right now it does seem like Hughes is the clear #1 in a lot of circles...seems like every take that I read just raves about him.  If the Devils take Hughes, and Kakko turns out to be the better player (sh!t happens), then I don't think the Devils should be killed for getting it "wrong".  Or that their methods are flawed. 

I do agree that I'd rather have first dibs...just ask the Flyers. 

Yup. You don't trade down so that you don't have to make a decision, that's stupid. Be a man, grow a pair and make a decision, for better or for worse. 

Also, you don't trade down with the Rangers. What's worse, if the guy that they take at #2 turns out to be better than our guy at #1, or the guy who they take at #1 turns out to be better and you handed him right to them?

If you ask me, the first is "sh!t happens", while the second is "someone should be fired". 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Don't think not coming up with the "100% right" pick means that the process is automatically broken, and changes must ensue.  Though this feels like a 1 - 1A draft, right now it does seem like Hughes is the clear #1 in a lot of circles...seems like every take that I read just raves about him.  If the Devils take Hughes, and Kakko turns out to be the better player (sh!t happens), then I don't think the Devils should be killed for getting it "wrong".  Or that their methods are flawed. 

I do agree that I'd rather have first dibs...just ask the Flyers. 

Yeah I agree they should not get killed for it and my post was a bit harsh in that regard. There are obviously a huge number of variables especially since these players are humans entering an organization made up of other humans. Luck/randomness plays an ENORMOUS role in success in all facets of life. (humbling study for anyone that has been fortunate enough to be successful https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323302956_Talent_vs_Luck_the_role_of_randomness_in_success_and_failure).

I guess my main point was that not getting the best player should lead to some introspection and I wouldn't want the devils hiding behind "well it was a 1/1A draft; hindsight is 20/20!".  If it is "we me made the right decision given the information we had at the time" then you need to look at what information you are gathering, how you are analyzing that information and find out if you failed to set the player to maximize their chances to succeed after the draft (Luck/randomness again will play a huge role in this in terms of (most) injuries, motivation, the players off ice life...). I do realize they are people too, so the scouts can always point fingers at the coaching/development and vice versa, but the organization as a whole needs to have a holistic view and if looking back you didn't get the best player there should be accountability to find out how it could have went the other way. When you pick #2 you don't get that chance to look back at it as clearly. 

 

Now to get back to the thread: Hughes skating is crazy good when watching highlights...Looks like he is playing a different sport out there with how he moves around the ice....

Edited by Steadevils

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Posted (edited)

at the end of the day... Hughes gives us depth. Which is what makes you win championships. 

i guess the best way to look at it is kind of comparing it to Crosby and Ovi.... everyone will always have their preference depending on what you're looking at... Crosby is a better playmaker... makes everyone around him better... Ovi is a beast and a pure goalscorer bla bla bla but pittsburgh was successful because of their depth.. which is exactly what getting hughes will do to our team... while Ovi as been amazing his whole career... they never won anything until they got depth though.

So im fine with Kakko playing with Zibanejad? and scoring 40 every year if it means their 2nd line is meh and the rangers doesnt win much

Edited by SterioDesign
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Just now, Steadevils said:

Yeah I agree they should not get killed for it and my post was a bit harsh in that regard. There are obviously a huge number of variables especially since these players are humans entering an organization made up of other humans. Luck/randomness plays an ENORMOUS role in success in all facets of life. (humbling study for anyone that has been fortunate enough to be successful https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323302956_Talent_vs_Luck_the_role_of_randomness_in_success_and_failure).

I guess my main point was that not getting the best player should lead to some introspection and I wouldn't want the devils hiding behind "well it was a 1/1A draft; hindsight is 20/20!".  If it is "we me made the right decision given the information we had at the time" then you need to look at what information you are gathering, how you are analyzing that information and find out if you failed to set the player to maximize their chances to succeed after the draft (Luck/randomness again will play a huge role in this in terms of (most) injuries, motivation, the players off ice life...). I do realize they are people too, so the scouts can always point fingers at the coaching/development and vice versa, but the organization as a whole needs to have a holistic view and if looking back you didn't get the best player there should be accountability to find out how it could have went the other way. When you pick #2 you don't get that chance to look back at it as clearly. 

There are those occasions where just about EVERYONE is wrong though.  Think IIRC correctly, Pat Falloon (picked #2 after Lindros, and of course one pick ahead of Niedermayer) was the consensus #2 on just about everyone's boards (though Alexei Kovalev supposedly would been #2, except than no one knew for sure if he'd play here...he was the first Russian ever to be taken with a first-round pick).  And of course I'm pretty sure that Alexandre Daigle was seen as the slam-dunk #1 in his draft (though to be fair wasn't a killer draft that year).  But yeah, hopefully you have the best possible system and resources in house to get it as right as you possibly can...and can tweak it or make changes if it's really not panning out over multiple drafts.

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17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

There are those occasions where just about EVERYONE is wrong though.  Think IIRC correctly, Pat Falloon (picked #2 after Lindros, and of course one pick ahead of Niedermayer) was the consensus #2 on just about everyone's boards (though Alexei Kovalev supposedly would been #2, except than no one knew for sure if he'd play here...he was the first Russian ever to be taken with a first-round pick).  And of course I'm pretty sure that Alexandre Daigle was seen as the slam-dunk #1 in his draft (though to be fair wasn't a killer draft that year).  But yeah, hopefully you have the best possible system and resources in house to get it as right as you possibly can...and can tweak it or make changes if it's really not panning out over multiple drafts.

This is exactly the situation here. Nobody can criticize picking Hughes #1 overall RIGHT NOW. He may pan out, he may not, that's how these things work. But when the guy is #1 on everyone's board, you can't go wrong with that pick. 

Waiting a few years, seeing who is better at THAT time, and then saying "gee, we should have picked so and so" is just sour grapes. 

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