NJDevs4978 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Two years would've represented more of a "good faith, at least you're not a lame duck" kind of move. Four years should show that you fully and firmly trust your GM...and that you're willing to stand by him even if there's some detours in his "process"...not necessarily for four years, but at least a couple. To see that shattered just a half-season later...does make one wonder what the hell changed so fast, in ownership's eyes...of course, we've done plenty of speculating as to why this happened, but it's still amazing that ownership had become so disillusioned with Shero that they decided the guy who they had just committed heavily to suddenly and absolutely had to go. That's the part that feels dysfunctional. Well that and the fact they fired him an hour and a half before a home game and not only after giving him a long extension but after letting him fire a coach and trade Hall, just like Hynes got fired a couple hours before a home game, and Hall was scratched and in limbo for like four days before they traded him. Everything about the way things have been handled this season is third-class. Edited January 15, 2020 by NJDevs4978 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazer Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said: Maybe I am reading into Hall's words wrong, but he seemed at least somewhat disappointed that an offer wasn't made. I do think Hall and his agent were probably playing hardball but judging by what I think I saw/heard I don't think they weren't at least open to some sort of offer. No, i heard him to, i think he said it in the coyotes presser so you can see his body language. And i think its stupid to not atleast make an offer. And glad shero didnt overpay for him to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Think the defense played a part as well. We had no defense before Shero, and still basically the same thing now, we suck still. The development on the defensive side is nill it seems and he's had plenty of time to do his thing. Don't get me wrong I like Ray and definitely see him getting a gig somewhere else within a year or two, but this isn't surprising,tl the timing is but not the move itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 He ain't wrong. I like how he mentions that we were lucky that Scuderi and Eaton retired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said: Vatanen has also said Shero didn't make him an offer either. If you want the guy back you at least 'attempt' to negotiate with him. IF the guy hasn’t said “I’m not ready to negotiate”, then I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 16 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: What I will wonder about is if Ray (over)pitched an aggressive offseason plan to ownership, who then gave him the full green light to do anything that he wanted (especially if part of the pitch was that this flurry of offseason activity would work out well enough that Hall would be a certainty to re-sign, even if Ray knew that there were still no guarantees on that front)...with ownership coming back with "OK Ray, you sold us, but this all better work!"...or if ownership pushed Ray to make "right now" moves before he was fully ready to do so, to speed things up. Even if we don't know the exact details, seems fairly clear that one party had a sudden change of heart. Almost feels like ownership was bottling up some anger as this thing fell apart, and then finally exploded (seemingly out of nowhere, especially with the team actually playing better as of late). The one move I would suspect was "collaborative" was PK. I could picture Shero making some kind of Pros and Cons list re: PK and presenting it to ownership...I think Shero has always been thorough when it comes to player acquisitions, which is why even the ones that didn't work just about all seemed to make good sense at the time they were made (I don't think Shero could've had worse luck that he did with MoJo...that seemed like an absolute no-brainer at the time, and it didn't work out at all). I could see Shero pointing out that though PK could regain his 2017-18 form, and that he wouldn't have to give up an insane amount in assets to get him, that there were reasons that it might not work...and that the numbers from 2018-19 could be interpreted as the beginning of a decline. I think the owners liked the idea of a high-profile player like Subban coming aboard, and that if he could be even 80-90% of what he'd been at his peak, that it could be a killer move both off and on the ice. So even if Shero might have been on the fence about bringing him in, the owners maybe pushed him just enough on making that move that he took the plunge. I was under the impression Ray/ownwership pursued & got PK to show Hallsy commitment to improving the team. Keeping a high profile guy like Hall helped w/ butts in seats. Too bad it didn't work. Thinking back on our shortcomings, I honest believe it was Devils D zone play (man to man) that killed us. They were chasing their man around and spending so much time, (in D zone) and exhausting themselves doing it. The system didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, vadvlfan said: I was under the impression Ray/ownwership pursued & got PK to show Hallsy commitment to improving the team. Keeping a high profile guy like Hall helped w/ butts in seats. Too bad it didn't work. Thinking back on our shortcomings, I honest believe it was Devils D zone play (man to man) that killed us. They were chasing their man around and spending so much time, (in D zone) and exhausting themselves doing it. The system didn't work. In fairness, I think the current Devils D could make a lot of systems look like they don't work. Overall they've been a bit less scary for a while (though inconsistent from game to game), but as last night reminded us, when they're bad, they can really be tough to watch. Good news is that it looks like Mueller should be done here after this season. Understood what Ray was doing there, but it didn't work out, and it's not going to. Like I've said, at this point, start purging the losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunninWithTheDevil Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 12 hours ago, CarpathianForest said: He ain't wrong. I like how he mentions that we were lucky that Scuderi and Eaton retired 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadevils Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 14 hours ago, CarpathianForest said: He ain't wrong. I like how he mentions that we were lucky that Scuderi and Eaton retired Damn...This seems pretty darn spot on to me. Brutal, but hard to argue with any of his points and is a pretty good summary on the current state and how we got here. I am not positive we have a single defenseman that will be here when/if we are contending again, so I am not sure it is much of a blame on the system as this gentleman seems to mainly put it on. Ty Smith has a shot and Bahl and walsh and prospect XX maybe, but there is no one that I'd make a significant bet on. There isn't a single defenseman up and down the franchise that you can say "He'll be a cornerstone 4-5 years from now". That scares me... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) Friedman's 31 thoughts with some interesting behind-the-office doors gossip https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-fallout-bombshell-devils-knights-firings/ Quote One particular bone of contention was decision making over the last year or two in goal — including insurance policies for 2019-20. MacKenzie Blackwood looks legit, but he was thrown into something he wasn’t ready for. ... Co-owners Joshua Harris and David Blitzer are very involved, and were in conversation with Shero more than the average owner(s) would be with their GM. There’s an organizational CEO, a President and a team President. There were Shero’s right-hand men, Tom Fitzgerald and Dan MacKinnon. Martin Brodeur became more involved in the last few months. And there is the Devils’ analytics department, which has real juice. When the analytics job was posted last year, it created the impression that the analytics department would have an open line to ownership and not necessarily report to the GM. The Devils liked two of the finalists, and decided to hire both (Tyler Dellow and Matt Cane). I’m not saying that anyone submarined anyone else, but I don’t believe Shero was ever comfortable with all of this. The Subban trade was one where he felt pulled in a lot of directions, but ultimately made the decision. When the person above mentioned the extension talks being “complicated,” I think this is a big part of it. He closed his circle even further as Hall discussions got into the public domain. If there’s one word I heard a lot of around New Jersey over the past 48 hours, it is “collaborative.” There is desire for more people to be involved in the process. Second-guessing Shero on the goalie thing is fair though there weren't really a lot of options that wouldn't block Blackwood beyond this year this side of Lehner. Were they really supposed to give big money and term to Varlamov or Bobrovsky and just make Blackwood a 1B for the indefinite future? And as for the (ahem) collabrative stuff, guess it was only a matter of time. Edited January 16, 2020 by NJDevs4978 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 That just screams too many cooks in the kitchen to me... What GM would want to have to deal with the analytics guys going over their head right to the owners? What a mess. The goaltending thing is fair. We should have never, ever, relied on Cory coming into this season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Nicomo said: That just screams too many cooks in the kitchen to me... What GM would want to have to deal with the analytics guys going over their head right to the owners? What a mess. The goaltending thing is fair. We should have never, ever, relied on Cory coming into this season. Sounds like we might have meddling owners...oh boy... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Sounds like we might have meddling owners...oh boy... I’m all too familiar with that. The owner of the Bengals has been acting as our GM for 30 years. As bad as he is though at least his father (the great Paul Brown) was one of the smartest football minds in the history of the game. What the hell do these two know about running a hockey team? Other than listening to advanced stat geeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 That's terrible if true. It's just like studio executives or producers getting in the way of movie directors. It's ALWAYS resulting in a mess. It's even worst that it's analytics... i have no idea how knowledgeable those owners are about hockey... but if you're not looking at the big picture and fully understand and know hockey its useless and the fact that they can just get "stats" and look at them as "results" to ensure they get a return on their investment or wtv is fvcking insane. I'd want to hang myself if i was a GM having to deal with that kind of sh!t 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 47 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Sounds like we might have meddling owners...oh boy... Yeah it sounds like a mess. Way too many voices. There should only be one voice- the GM’s. The owners need to write checks and shut the fvck up. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Yeah it sounds like a mess. Way too many voices. There should only be one voice- the GM’s. The owners need to write checks and shut the fvck up. Yeah if all of this is true, it’s incredibly disheartening and depressing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 It's only a problem if one side doesn't want to listen at all. If that was Shero's prerogative, he wasn't going to last with this ownership group, as that's not how they see things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said: Most comments in the "Devils hire Tyler Dellow as vice president of analytics" thread were "It can't hurt to have someone like this in the organization". Well.. guess what lol It should have never been a thing to get them that involved in management. Analytics should be a ressource, a tool that the people in charge can go and have access to. To make decisions based on it is madness. I'm getting more and more worried about our owners. I can't help but imagine this when im thinking about the situation Edited January 16, 2020 by SterioDesign 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 https://staffandgraph.podbean.com I'm worried about this team. This podcast was so depressing to listen to. Basically Harris & Blizter are out if touch billionaires who are convinced we can win it all now with this current roster because our analytics geeks say so, and therefore they do not want trades occurring for the sake of getting younger and better. They want the complete opposite of Colorado's model. Also, even though they are meddling owners they see the Devils as an insignificant piece of their investment empire so could care less what the fans think. This organization might be really screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, slasher72 said: https://staffandgraph.podbean.com I'm worried about this team. This podcast was so depressing to listen to. Basically Harris & Blizter are out if touch billionaires who are convinced we can win it all now with this current roster because our analytics geeks say so, and therefore they do not want trades occurring for the sake of getting younger and better. They want the complete opposite of Colorado's model. Also, even though they are meddling owners they see the Devils as an insignificant piece of their investment empire so could care less what the fans think. This organization might be really screwed. wait i didn't listen to that podcast obviously but is this... legit or someone guessing? More specifically that our analytics geeks are saying we could win it all now? Edited January 16, 2020 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 42 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: wait i didn't listen to that podcast obviously but is this... legit or someone guessing? More specifically that our analytics geeks are saying we could win it all now? I don't know, but the way she says "full stop" makes me less inclined to take them seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 3 hours ago, SterioDesign said: wait i didn't listen to that podcast obviously but is this... legit or someone guessing? More specifically that our analytics geeks are saying we could win it all now? She worked for the NJ Devils organization for 2 years in their analytics Dept. That's what concerns me and leads me to believe she might be telling the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 It's disappointing to hear that the stat nerds have the ear of ownership. With that said the current system with Shero and his closed group ain't working either. Therefore I am not ready to hit the panic button yet and declare Harris and Blitzer to be "meddling owners" just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Oh no maybe we'll finish dead last in the division yet again without Shero next season. The horror. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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