2019 Offseason Thread

[Lateralous]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

Then just announce that all Devils games from here on out will be exhibitions where the score won't be kept.  Toronto might be having cap problems, but you know what they're also doing: winning. 

Are they really?  I must have missed when they've made it any further than the Devils did in '17-'18.  They also spent about three times as long bottoming out as Shero has even been a GM here to collect all that talent that is golfing before the start of May.    

[Neb00rs]

20 minutes ago, mikemarc1 said:

Does Shero inquire?

It's not unthinkable that Shero tries to put together a trade that involves Pavel Zacha here. This would work for us positionally. But to pull the trigger on that, one has to believe that Puljujarvi is going to be better all-around than Zacha (something I'm not so sure of) and that EDM would have any interest in Zacha.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Neb00rs

[Daniel]

6 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

Are they really?  I must have missed when they've made it any further than the Devils did in '17-'18.  They also spent about three times as long bottoming out as Shero has even been a GM here to collect all that talent that is golfing before the start of May.    

Three playoff berths in a row and two 100 point seasons in a row.  Us, two bottom five finishes and what is shaping up to be several more.  But that cap space is glorious and gets hacks like Wyshynski to write puff pieces about you.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Three playoff berths in a row and two 100 point seasons in a row.  Us, two bottom five finishes and what is shaping up to be several more.  But that cap space is glorious and gets hacks like Wyshynski to write puff pieces about you.

Last Cup win: 1967

Last Playoff Series win:  2004

Last 14 years:  10 No Postseasons, 4 Playoff Appearances, total of 11 playoff game wins 

Only you and Charlie Sheen would categorize that as "winning".  Grass is always greener, sure, but maybe pick a healthier lawn for comparison next time, while in the throes of idiotic hysterics.

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Last Cup win: 1967

Last Playoff Series win:  2004

Last 14 years:  10 No Postseasons, 4 Playoff Appearances, total of 11 playoff game wins 

Only you and Charlie Sheen would categorize that as "winning".  Grass is always greener, sure, but maybe pick a healthier lawn for comparison next time, while in the throes of idiotic hysterics.

I'm obviously referring to what Ray Shero has been able to accomplish and a reasonable prediction of what he will accomplish, which is not impressive.  I don't know even what he did in Pittsburgh that was all that special except show up to work.

I'm also making a point that success is not measured by cap space, which is a disease of the mind that's infected a lot of people who observe the sport or who actually work in it.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Daniel

[CMONPETEYD]

Zacha and McLeod for Puljujjarvi, Lucic and #8 overall?

 

 

[Devilsfan118]

1 minute ago, CMONPETEYD said:

Zacha and McLeod for Puljujjarvi, Lucic and #8 overall?

 

 

First off - when are you updating your name to CMONJOHNNYH?

Second - hell yeah I do that and buy out Lucic immediately.  I don't think the Oilers deem that fair value, though.  I don't think Lucic's deal is THAT bad.

[Steadevils]

5 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

It's not unthinkable that Shero tries to put together a trade that involves Pavel Zacha here. This would work for us positionally. But to pull the trigger on that, one has to believe that Puljujarvi is going to be better all-around than Zacha (something I'm not so sure of) and that EDM would have any interest in Zacha.

I'd 100% inquire on Puljujarvi. Size on the wing is one area we are extremely limited in (and especially RW). Even if he plays as a small 6'4 he's still 6'4...Puljujarvi ceiling is still high in my mind. The report says the Oilers want a 3rd line f in return (seems low)...yeah i'd give them any of coleman, zacha, zajac, wood  (sweeten it with some of our abundance of 2019 picks)....worth the risk to maybe hit a HR. You are getting a guy who was a top notch prospect only 3 years ago. If he had failed on a competent team i'd hesitate more, but I'd take the risk knowing the Oilers might have botched his development. 

[CMONPETEYD]

Just now, Devilsfan118 said:

First off - when are you updating your name to CMONJOHNNYH?

Second - hell yeah I do that and buy out Lucic immediately.  I don't think the Oilers deem that fair value, though.  I don't think Lucic's deal is THAT bad.

I guess someone needs to make the change for me....   Board Support or something like that...

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

First off - when are you updating your name to CMONJOHNNYH?

Second - hell yeah I do that and buy out Lucic immediately.  I don't think the Oilers deem that fair value, though.  I don't think Lucic's deal is THAT bad.

Lucic's deal is pretty much buy out proof because of all the bonus money he gets.

[CMONPETEYD]

3 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

First off - when are you updating your name to CMONJOHNNYH?

Also - I used to be CMONBRENT before this.

[MadDog2020]

13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Last Cup win: 1967

Last Playoff Series win:  2004

Last 14 years:  10 No Postseasons, 4 Playoff Appearances, total of 11 playoff game wins 

Only you and Charlie Sheen would categorize that as "winning".  Grass is always greener, sure, but maybe pick a healthier lawn for comparison next time, while in the throes of idiotic hysterics.

Speaking of idiotic hysterics, his are getting really old....

[CarpathianForest]

Zacha, McLeod and a 1st for Puljaarvi and Larsson

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, CarpathianForest said:

Zacha, McLeod and a 1st for Puljaarvi and Larsson

Maybe a 2nd instead. Puljaarvi's numbers aren't that impressive to me, not for a #4 overall. 

That said, Zacha. 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by mfitz804

[glenwo2]

At the rate we're going, Daniel is going to make me the most popular poster here. 

Haven't seen so many hot takes.....

It actually makes me feel a whole lot better about getting blasted earlier with my Trouba post.  

[NJDfan1711]

3 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Ducks buying out Perry.

Wonder who inquires? Don't think he fits out situation at all.

I don't want him either, but only because like you said he doesn't fit.  I'm surprised they're buying him out though...dude just turned 34, and he's really only had one down year (last year) which I presume was due to injury because he only played 31 games, so....hard to imagine he doesn't still have at least 3-4 years left.  Just 12 games shy of 1,000 with the Ducks too.  

[Nicomo]

36 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

I'd 100% inquire on Puljujarvi. Size on the wing is one area we are extremely limited in (and especially RW). Even if he plays as a small 6'4 he's still 6'4...Puljujarvi ceiling is still high in my mind. The report says the Oilers want a 3rd line f in return (seems low)...yeah i'd give them any of coleman, zacha, zajac, wood  (sweeten it with some of our abundance of 2019 picks)....worth the risk to maybe hit a HR. You are getting a guy who was a top notch prospect only 3 years ago. If he had failed on a competent team i'd hesitate more, but I'd take the risk knowing the Oilers might have botched his development. 

Of the players you mentioned I’d only give them Wood if it’s one-for-one. Definitely wouldn’t be throwing anything else in. 

[titans04]

4 hours ago, jagknife said:

I would like to think Ray approaches them, says we can get x player for y cost. They go, sure. End of discussion. 

Hell, if I had millions and millions and owned a team, i’d say build me a winner and who do I make the checks out to, with very little inputs if I wasn’t a fan of the sport. 

I would think Ray carries the majority share on players and salaries but I wholeheartedly believe the ownership have their own internal cap which isn't nearly what the league cap is.  Honestly I don't think the league cap plays much into the ownerships thinking it's all about what they're willing to go up to.

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, titans04 said:

I would think Ray carries the majority share on players and salaries but I wholeheartedly believe the ownership have their own internal cap which isn't nearly what the league cap is.  Honestly I don't think the league cap plays much into the ownerships thinking it's all about what they're willing to go up to.

I don't think the owners have an internal cap per se.  I think though that they are obsessed with the idea that there's some kind of correct salary for a player based on some model they paid for.

[sundstrom]

sigh. deep breath.

ok - i've been crazy busy for the last couple of days and haven't had time to check in lately but I'm going to have to pull the big brother card here.

Daniel

1) These guys don't get that your prone to hysterics as a defense mechanism against optimism and that you honestly believe about 20% of what you're saying but will push it not to be a troll, but just to guard you from reality, positivity or common sense.

2) Trouba - since he's the topic du jour. I was just as furious that he both did not come to NJ and went to the Rangers (probably more mad about the latter) and then that the deal was for peanuts. But there are FACTS that need to be considered. While the Devils could have beat the deal with quantity on the quality side, they did not have the 20th pick and the Jets wanted back in the 1st round THIS year. They wanted a defenseman. Our comparable based on cost and efficiency isn't butcher - it's meuller (or santini) and perhaps those were not guys Winnipeg wanted. It has been reported that Trouba gave the Jets two teams he'd be ok being traded to. And yes - he's an RFA, but by saying these are the teams i will sign with (whether a short term or long term), he is in fact saying where he's going.

3) Ray not spending money and valuing cap space - what options has he had? He offered more for Shattenkirk, JVR, and Maroon than they signed for which would have all been bad signings. Thank God we didn't get any of those to agree. So it's not that he's cheap. It's like the comment he made about offer sheets - "you've got to get the player to sign the fvcking thing." When you've been scorned by offers, that's when you publicly say, 'that's fine - we've got cap space which is super valuable." I don't know what will make you more mad - when Ray signs Jake Gardiner for 7/7.5 or when he doesn't. The current UFA market has some names that are interesting for sure (duschene, panarin, nyquist, lee for forwards | gardiner and my preferred Jordie Benn on defense). But there are still only so many roster spots for players. we agree that ideally, the devils need two top 6 forwards and 2 top 4 dmen to get to the next level (ideally one top line dman and a second pairing guy). well you've got one of your new top 6 forwards in hughes. and more than likely, you've got the 2nd pairing dman in ty smith. in my perfect world, sign jordie benn and trade for a decent top 6 forward with either cap space or draft picks/prospects.

4) It sucks to admit, but the Devils are not a marquee destination to play for. Think about the players that have had long careers here - these were established family guys that made ties to the area and got above rate contracts. Sure, winning changes things and by all accounts, the players are treated extremely well by the organization and given top of the line facilities and resources. But honestly - the Devils are lumped in with Carolina, Ottawa, Winnepeg,Columbus, Arizona, and Edmonton as the least desirable locals to play in. So that's why its develop your own and trade as the best way to build a strong organization. You have to make winning the allure to have people want to sign here or ask to be traded here

5) The analytics strawman argument you keep going back to - you make it seem like an exaggerated version of  @Triumph is running the analytics department (PS - where has Tri been?).

6) Re: ben lovejoy return- i heard he's pretty sure he's done in the NHL and that he might get a PTO but the odds on a contract are remote. supposedly he asked the devils about becoming a coach but wasn't greenlighted at this time.

 

[Daniel]

14 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

sigh. deep breath.

ok - i've been crazy busy for the last couple of days and haven't had time to check in lately but I'm going to have to pull the big brother card here.

Daniel

1) These guys don't get that your prone to hysterics as a defense mechanism against optimism and that you honestly believe about 20% of what you're saying but will push it not to be a troll, but just to guard you from reality, positivity or common sense.

2) Trouba - since he's the topic du jour. I was just as furious that he both did not come to NJ and went to the Rangers (probably more mad about the latter) and then that the deal was for peanuts. But there are FACTS that need to be considered. While the Devils could have beat the deal with quantity on the quality side, they did not have the 20th pick and the Jets wanted back in the 1st round THIS year. They wanted a defenseman. Our comparable based on cost and efficiency isn't butcher - it's meuller (or santini) and perhaps those were not guys Winnipeg wanted. It has been reported that Trouba gave the Jets two teams he'd be ok being traded to. And yes - he's an RFA, but by saying these are the teams i will sign with (whether a short term or long term), he is in fact saying where he's going.

3) Ray not spending money and valuing cap space - what options has he had? He offered more for Shattenkirk, JVR, and Maroon than they signed for which would have all been bad signings. Thank God we didn't get any of those to agree. So it's not that he's cheap. It's like the comment he made about offer sheets - "you've got to get the player to sign the fvcking thing." When you've been scorned by offers, that's when you publicly say, 'that's fine - we've got cap space which is super valuable." I don't know what will make you more mad - when Ray signs Jake Gardiner for 7/7.5 or when he doesn't. The current UFA market has some names that are interesting for sure (duschene, panarin, nyquist, lee for forwards | gardiner and my preferred Jordie Benn on defense). But there are still only so many roster spots for players. we agree that ideally, the devils need two top 6 forwards and 2 top 4 dmen to get to the next level (ideally one top line dman and a second pairing guy). well you've got one of your new top 6 forwards in hughes. and more than likely, you've got the 2nd pairing dman in ty smith. in my perfect world, sign jordie benn and trade for a decent top 6 forward with either cap space or draft picks/prospects.

4) It sucks to admit, but the Devils are not a marquee destination to play for. Think about the players that have had long careers here - these were established family guys that made ties to the area and got above rate contracts. Sure, winning changes things and by all accounts, the players are treated extremely well by the organization and given top of the line facilities and resources. But honestly - the Devils are lumped in with Carolina, Ottawa, Winnepeg,Columbus, Arizona, and Edmonton as the least desirable locals to play in. So that's why its develop your own and trade as the best way to build a strong organization. You have to make winning the allure to have people want to sign here or ask to be traded here

5) The analytics strawman argument you keep going back to - you make it seem like an exaggerated version of  @Triumph is running the analytics department (PS - where has Tri been?).

6) Re: ben lovejoy return- i heard he's pretty sure he's done in the NHL and that he might get a PTO but the odds on a contract are remote. supposedly he asked the devils about becoming a coach but wasn't greenlighted at this time.

 

You can say  what you want about the Rangers pick being out of reach for us, but what everyone keeps forgetting is that the optics of giving away Trouba to get your own pick back are terrible and that's indeed how it went down.  They can get what amounts to a first rounder and a legit second pairing defenseman in Vatanen instead of number 20 and a guy who will likely end up on waivers in the next year or two.  Ray needs to tell the PR people that he doesn't have to do yet another Hughes/Kakko promo and get on the phone and negotiate.  A GM who won't go after a good player without any no trade clause because he feels the team that pays him a seven figure salary isn't in a marquee location should pack up his sh!t and go and be some errand boy for Jim Dolan, or perhaps his bassist so he can bask in the brights lights brah.

And I am not making an analytics strawman argument.  The team is heavily invested in it, and brought in some guy who specializes in contracts, which can only mean that they're looking for excuses NOT to pay for good players.  What we do have to show for it is cap space that will never get used and a team that won't win.  If only we can put every useless analytics a$$hole in a rocket ship and fire them towards the sun. 

The bottom line, come the middle of July the team will only be better by virtue of having Jack Hughes, who Ray was able to obtain by putting together a crappy team.  Unless you give him two generational players he lacks any clue how to win.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Daniel

[Anhkheg]

Season starts at the beginning of October. Shero has 3 months to sign RFA/FA and make trades. Lets see what happens in the next 3 months before harping on him. As Shero reiterated what he learned from Lou, "When you have time, use it"

[Rob_Ottawa]

Right, 3 months, let's be a bit patient. If at the end our roster is 2019 + Hughes I will be so down.

The only thing I would have to look forward to with that roster is development of our young guys, especially Blackwood who I am so hyped about.

I really hope he is the stabilizing goalie we desperately need and that the coach recognizes it and plays him more than Carrots.  BTW, I have no faith in our coach.

 

[Devil Dan 56]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Ottawa said:

Right, 3 months, let's be a bit patient. If at the end our roster is 2019 + Hughes I will be so down.

The only thing I would have to look forward to with that roster is development of our young guys, especially Blackwood who I am so hyped about.

I really hope he is the stabilizing goalie we desperately need and that the coach recognizes it and plays him more than Carrots.  BTW, I have no faith in our coach.

 

I think Cory is the de-facto starter going in to the season but Blackwood will get his chances. I like what I've seen and I would love to see him continue to build on it

[Anhkheg]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Ottawa said:

I really hope he is the stabilizing goalie we desperately need and that the coach recognizes it and plays him more than Carrots.  BTW, I have no faith in our coach.

I've felt that way about Hynes for a couple of years now, even when we made it to the playoffs. Hynes would make an excellent AHL coach though.